graemevood
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 146
TGCT Name: Graeme Wood
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by graemevood on Jan 25, 2021 7:54:44 GMT -5
Right so I’ve been pulled up on blind tee shots and shots quite a few times with my courses now. Some were things I hadn’t noticed but I’ll take that on the chin. But I really don’t get why people are so against blind shots. Blind shots are an actual thing in real life golf. I’m busy creating a links course at the moment with quite a few blind shots but now concerned about the negativity it might get.
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Post by b101 on Jan 25, 2021 8:28:20 GMT -5
Intentional blind shots are fine. Blind shots because you haven’t sculpted a sightline are not.
We’ve had the debate before. Basically, it’ll depend but if being unable to see hazards is a product of poor sculpting rather than an intentional decision, it’ll get the course rejected.
I won’t go into many more details though - there’s lots of threads on the subject already. Just keep checking from the tee and approach shot view that you can see what you should (greens, fairway, hazards)
The counterargument might be links golf. If so, again, it’ll depend. Blind hazards on links courses arise from bunkers naturally occurring in depressions in the ground, so we’d expect that to be evident.
Ultimately, unintentional blindness is evidence that sculpting needs work and should guide you as to what to focus on with your sculpting.
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Post by joegolferg on Jan 25, 2021 8:28:28 GMT -5
Right so I’ve been pulled up on blind tee shots and shots quite a few times with my courses now. Some were things I hadn’t noticed but I’ll take that on the chin. But I really don’t get why people are so against blind shots. Blind shots are an actual thing in real life golf. I’m busy creating a links course at the moment with quite a few blind shots but now concerned about the negativity it might get. People aren't against blind shots built purposely, logically and realistically. What people don't like are blind shots due to clumsy sculpting/land management, lazy design or illogical reasoning.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 8:36:45 GMT -5
Right so I’ve been pulled up on blind tee shots and shots quite a few times with my courses now. Some were things I hadn’t noticed but I’ll take that on the chin. But I really don’t get why people are so against blind shots. Blind shots are an actual thing in real life golf. I’m busy creating a links course at the moment with quite a few blind shots but now concerned about the negativity it might get. Blind shots in real life courses are not a good thing. So even if a feature exist in real life does not mean that it is good. As a golfer, you want to see what you are aiming for. You want to see the hazards and other features on the course. This is ofcourse not always possible, and you can use blindness strategic. For example, if you have hit a bad tee shot, and find yourself with a blind approach - that is just punishment for the bad tee shot. But to have a blind approach from the fairway - that is just not good. Or - if you get to a tee and all you see is a hill in front of you that you need to hit over into who knows what - that is just bad. It is perfectly fine to have a landing area blind where the safe option is visible off the tee. So if you want to hit the risky shot, you have a more difficult time in aiming compared to the safe option. This is risk and reward. But I want to stress that the safe option should be an option, not an illusionary option. What do I mean with that? If you have a long par 4 - so long, that the safe option means you can't reach the green in regulation - this option is not an option, and you are forcing the player to hit the risky shot with the driver. Also remember: the scout cam is not golf. It has nothing to do with golf. So design with the knowledge that the scout cam or any other aids are not available.
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Post by b101 on Jan 25, 2021 8:46:46 GMT -5
Right so I’ve been pulled up on blind tee shots and shots quite a few times with my courses now. Some were things I hadn’t noticed but I’ll take that on the chin. But I really don’t get why people are so against blind shots. Blind shots are an actual thing in real life golf. I’m busy creating a links course at the moment with quite a few blind shots but now concerned about the negativity it might get. Blind shots in real life courses are not a good thing. You are presenting an opinion as fact. Blind shots have their place in golf.
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Deleted
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Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 8:51:37 GMT -5
Blind shots in real life courses are not a good thing. I’m not going to argue with you again, but this is opinion, not fact. Blind shots have their place in golf. You are not arguing, but still do? Did you read all? Quote: "Blindness can be used strategic".
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Post by b101 on Jan 25, 2021 8:56:47 GMT -5
I’m not going to argue with you again, but this is opinion, not fact. Blind shots have their place in golf. You are not arguing, but still do? Did you read all? Quote: "Blindness can be used strategic". I did, but your opening line is dead wrong. Hence why I quoted that part. There's parts of what you say that I agree with, but you cannot post sweeping statements like that one as if it's fact.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 9:02:34 GMT -5
You are not arguing, but still do? Did you read all? Quote: "Blindness can be used strategic". I did, but your opening line is dead wrong. Hence why I quoted that part. There's parts of what you say that I agree with, but you cannot post sweeping statements like that one as if it's fact. So your opinion as a golfer is that you like blind shots? That aiming blindly over a hill is good? Let me ask a question to clarify my statement: if blindness can be used strategic - is not a blind shot a shot that a golfer want to avoid and thus find bad? I think again you misunderstand the statement. The statement is not that a blind shot necessary is bad design, but bad for the golfer - thus making the shot more difficult.
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Post by joegolferg on Jan 25, 2021 9:04:07 GMT -5
Right so I’ve been pulled up on blind tee shots and shots quite a few times with my courses now. Some were things I hadn’t noticed but I’ll take that on the chin. But I really don’t get why people are so against blind shots. Blind shots are an actual thing in real life golf. I’m busy creating a links course at the moment with quite a few blind shots but now concerned about the negativity it might get. Blind shots in real life courses are not a good thing. So even if a feature exist in real life does not mean that it is good. As a golfer, you want to see what you are aiming for. You want to see the hazards and other features on the course. This is ofcourse not always possible, and you can use blindness strategic. For example, if you have hit a bad tee shot, and find yourself with a blind approach - that is just punishment for the bad tee shot. But to have a blind approach from the fairway - that is just not good. Or - if you get to a tee and all you see is a hill in front of you that you need to hit over into who knows what - that is just bad. It is perfectly fine to have a landing area blind where the safe option is visible off the tee. So if you want to hit the risky shot, you have a more difficult time in aiming compared to the safe option. This is risk and reward. But I want to stress that the safe option should be an option, not an illusionary option. What do I mean with that? If you have a long par 4 - so long, that the safe option means you can't reach the green in regulation - this option is not an option, and you are forcing the player to hit the risky shot with the driver. Also remember: the scout cam is not golf. It has nothing to do with golf. So design with the knowledge that the scout cam or any other aids are not available. Sorry Anders, but I can only assume you've not had much IRL experience on a variety of styles of courses. Your opinion is your entitlement but it is factually incorrect. You DONT always have to see what you're aiming for and you DONT have to see the hazards either. Neither of these things are requirements for good design or else links golf would be obsolete.
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Post by joegolferg on Jan 25, 2021 9:08:06 GMT -5
I did, but your opening line is dead wrong. Hence why I quoted that part. There's parts of what you say that I agree with, but you cannot post sweeping statements like that one as if it's fact. So your opinion as a golfer is that you like blind shots? That aiming blindly over a hill is good? Let me ask a question to clarify my statement: if blindness can be used strategic - is not a blind shot a shot that a golfer want to avoid and thus find bad? I think again you misunderstand the statement. The statement is not that a blind shot necessary is bad design, but bad for the golfer - thus making the shot more difficult. To answer your first question, yes! I find playing over a hill, hazard etc etc very exciting as I'm wondering exactly how and where my ball ended up. Every single person I play golf with also enjoys these shots.
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Post by b101 on Jan 25, 2021 9:10:02 GMT -5
I can only echo Joe's last two posts. If you haven't played much links golf though, I wouldn't expect you to understand - that's not meant as an insult, simply that you won't get it until you do. However, that is all the more reason not to dismiss blind shots if you haven't properly experienced them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 9:20:22 GMT -5
I can only echo Joe's last two posts. If you enjoy blind shots - like for example a tee shot right into a hill where you don't see anything past that hill 50 yards from the tee box - or a par 3 where you can't see the green or the flag. You and Joe are ofcourse entitled to that opinion - but I very much doubt that represent the majority of golfers. And - if you have that opinion - I find it very difficult to understand why you critique blindness in fantasy courses.
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Post by b101 on Jan 25, 2021 9:26:34 GMT -5
I can only echo Joe's last two posts. If you enjoy blind shots - like for example a tee shot right into a hill where you don't see anything past that hill 50 yards from the tee box - or a par 3 where you can't see the green or the flag. You and Joe are ofcourse entitled to that opinion - but I very much doubt that represent the majority of golfers. And - if you have that opinion - I find it very difficult to understand why you critique blindness in fantasy courses. As stated in the first response, the difference is always intention, whether the blindness is crafted carefully or not and whether it makes sense. You might also want to look at the Dell hole at Lahinch, widely renowned as one of the best par threes in golf. www.turfnet.com/blogs/entry/944-lahinch-signature-par-3-the-dell/
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Jan 25, 2021 9:26:55 GMT -5
I can only echo Joe's last two posts. If you enjoy blind shots - like for example a tee shot right into a hill where you don't see anything past that hill 50 yards from the tee box - or a par 3 where you can't see the green or the flag. You and Joe are ofcourse entitled to that opinion - but I very much doubt that represent the majority of golfers. And - if you have that opinion - I find it very difficult to understand why you critique blindness in fantasy courses. It comes down to execution on fantasy courses and real courses. And I'll echo what Ben said, until you've played links golf you won't understand the thrill and disappointment that well done blind shots create. For example, North Berwick has 3 (1, 14, 15) that are astonishingly good. There are also terrible blind shots in real life, the course I used to play a lot had a par 3 hidden by trees and a hill that was just awful to play.
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Post by b101 on Jan 25, 2021 9:27:46 GMT -5
I'm also going to add the point that when reviewing, we refer to it as unintentional blindness. The first word is important.
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