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Post by jp44 on Mar 23, 2021 10:37:32 GMT -5
Would this be a good time to point out that I am indeed a garbage player but not American? And that I am Dutch, like Van Gogh? And that he didn't paint the Mona Lisa? And I'm asking this as a friend, not an enemy... although I do play for perfects, I admit.  LOL! I knew I had it wrong but decided to carry on without doublechecking. Thank you for the roast! Hopefully the point still came across right hahaha . |
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mega8deth8
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 107
Tour: Platinum
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Post by mega8deth8 on Mar 23, 2021 10:43:00 GMT -5
This is absolutely comical at this point. You can change the game, but you can't change the crowd. And it's been an annoyance since the old TW games. Why is it that there is always a loud vocal minority, screaming and belittling like a temper tantrum, that the way they play the game is righteous and true and the only way the game should be played. It's the old whining about Amateur mode players BS. There are several tiers to play on here, so however you play or score, there is good competition for you. So I don't get the crying. Personally I have fun winning. I haven't in a awhile, but I enjoy it. So staying "true" to some self idealistic view of the game matters not to me. I play to have fun. Right now I've been transitioning from a lot of red fasts to mostly Perfects. Not because someone wants me to, but because I feel it's my best shot at getting back to competing for wins. I lost about 5 strokes a round changing over but I'm slowing showing signs of it coming together. I guess this whole post can be summed up in one line. "You just do you." I just don’t see the temper tantrum, belittling and screaming. Just a debate about a mechanic that it’s hard to see past the obvious, advantageous flaws of - when it’s taken to extremes and exploited. I think I've seen every "cheese" pun imaginable on this post, and don't get me started on the condescending and sarcastic jabs. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Mar 23, 2021 11:15:06 GMT -5
I just don’t see the temper tantrum, belittling and screaming. Just a debate about a mechanic that it’s hard to see past the obvious, advantageous flaws of - when it’s taken to extremes and exploited. I think I've seen every "cheese" pun imaginable on this post, and don't get me started on the condescending and sarcastic jabs. Well, it is a cheese - let's be honest about it... It's taking the difficult bit of master swing and playing the game in an unnatural way in an attempt to gain better results, because adjusting for perfect is more difficult to achieve. Surely that's not in question? Everyone is welcome to play how they like unless it's in some way outlawed here, and I've absolutely no problem with that or with anyone that does it (not that my opinion is worth a jot), but it's a divisive subject on competitive tours such as these and people are open to discuss it. I can't see anyone going berserk about it - quite the opposite in fact. It's a pretty tame thread in all honesty. Bring back the Irish... It's hard to brielieve that HB / 2K are still "Ok" with it as a legitimate tactic, especially as the latter have E-Sports aspirations... Suppose we've gouda just keep plugging away with perfects and hope that next time, bad strikes are recognised as such in the code and we're attuned to the challenge at that point. |
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Post by jp44 on Mar 23, 2021 11:23:04 GMT -5
I think I've seen every "cheese" pun imaginable on this post, and don't get me started on the condescending and sarcastic jabs. Well, it is a cheese - let's be honest about it... It's taking the difficult bit of master swing and playing the game in an unnatural way in an attempt to gain better results, because adjusting for perfect is more difficult to achieve. Surely that's not in question? Everyone is welcome to play how they like unless it's in some way outlawed here, and I've absolutely no problem with that or with anyone that does it (not that my opinion is worth a jot), but it's a divisive subject on competitive tours such as these and people are open to discuss it. I can't see anyone going berserk about it - quite the opposite in fact. It's a pretty tame thread in all honesty. Bring back the Irish... It's hard to brielieve that HB / 2K are still "Ok" with it as a legitimate tactic, especially as the latter have E-Sports aspirations... Suppose we've gouda just keep plugging away with perfects and hope that next time, bad strikes are recognised as such in the code and we're attuned to the challenge at that point. All HB has to do is make it so R Fast and R Slow don't go to the exact same spot each time. Make it RNG within a 5 square yard area (roughly) so that it doesn't over penalize a standard perfect miss. Then you could not repeatedly go for fast and know the exact landing area with experience. Then it would make no sense to play for a fast since there would not be a precise way of calculating where it lands. As long as the RNG area isn't excessively large it won't be any more penal than missing a perfect with a red fast. Will they do that this game? No chance. Hopefully they are listening to peoples frustrations and incorporate a better system next time around. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Mar 23, 2021 11:27:28 GMT -5
Well, it is a cheese - let's be honest about it... It's taking the difficult bit of master swing and playing the game in an unnatural way in an attempt to gain better results, because adjusting for perfect is more difficult to achieve. Surely that's not in question? Everyone is welcome to play how they like unless it's in some way outlawed here, and I've absolutely no problem with that or with anyone that does it (not that my opinion is worth a jot), but it's a divisive subject on competitive tours such as these and people are open to discuss it. I can't see anyone going berserk about it - quite the opposite in fact. It's a pretty tame thread in all honesty. Bring back the Irish... It's hard to brielieve that HB / 2K are still "Ok" with it as a legitimate tactic, especially as the latter have E-Sports aspirations... Suppose we've gouda just keep plugging away with perfects and hope that next time, bad strikes are recognised as such in the code and we're attuned to the challenge at that point. All HB has to do is make it so R Fast and R Slow don't go to the exact same spot each time. Make it RNG within a 5 square yard area (roughly) so that it doesn't over penalize a standard perfect miss. Then you could not repeatedly go for fast and know the exact landing area with experience. Then it would make no sense to play for a fast since there would not be a precise way of calculating where it lands. As long as the RNG area isn't excessively large it won't be any more penal than missing a perfect with a red fast. Will they do that this game? No chance. Hopefully they are listening to peoples frustrations and incorporate a better system next time around. Fully agree. Make red fast and slow random angularity and distance (to a point) and make loft adjustments do the same to a red fast towards very fast as a perfect adjustment does towards prompting a red fast. Not rocket science, not by a long shot. HB / 2k making a change - no chance. More likely to bring out a red fast club set. |
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Post by SkyBlueBen on Mar 23, 2021 11:32:17 GMT -5
All HB has to do is make it so R Fast and R Slow don't go to the exact same spot each time. Make it RNG within a 5 square yard area (roughly) so that it doesn't over penalize a standard perfect miss. Then you could not repeatedly go for fast and know the exact landing area with experience. Then it would make no sense to play for a fast since there would not be a precise way of calculating where it lands. As long as the RNG area isn't excessively large it won't be any more penal than missing a perfect with a red fast. Will they do that this game? No chance. Hopefully they are listening to peoples frustrations and incorporate a better system next time around. Fully agree. Make red fast and slow random angularity and distance (to a point) and make loft adjustments do the same to a red fast towards very fast as a perfect adjustment does towards prompting a red fast. Not rocket science, not by a long shot. HB / 2k making a change - no chance. More likely to bring out a red fast club set. Finally something to spend my hard earned VC on  |
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Post by nevadaballin on Mar 23, 2021 14:10:44 GMT -5
The cheesy part is not debatable lol. It is absolutely cheesy AF. Why? Because the game was never designed to play that way. That’s an undisputed fact. If it were, the devs would have included it in the tutorials under something like Advanced Techniques or at the very least, mentioned it in the intro streams with that wrestler dude on Twitch before release. But they didn’t. They did, however, show how holding the backswing produces a 96% swing every time. That’s an intended feature of the game. Having *any* kind of accuracy on wild ass ball strikes is bullsht and everyone in here who has ever swung a golf club knows that lol. Personally, I don’t care how anyone plays the game. It’s like a hooker, you spent your hard earned money on it so bang it any way she will let you. But when playing in a regulated league environment, there’s going to be pushback when exploits are being used. I can almost guarantee this - if there was a way to police it, TGCTours would have outlawed it. Again, I don’t care how anyone plays the game but trying to justify exploited play in a league environment as being ok doesn’t usually work  Please note, I say none of the above in any kind of nasty tone towards you so please don’t take it that way. I’m just engaging in the discussion. Stating something is an "undisputable fact" doesn't make it so. The game works a number of ways people play it. And if TGCTours wanted to ban it they could have, they have the ability to ban any swing pattern they want. The fact is they didnt, because its perfectly ok to play any way you like, as long as your controller is not hard/soft modded to produce straight shots. At this point the arguments against playing a fast draw look like they coming simply from garbage players that cannot be happy with their own play so they tear down others, but hey, that's the American way. It is an indisputable fact, not because I “said so”, but for the reason I set forth. I didn’t just say it and then bolt out of it. I provided the reason why we know this. If HB designed the game to play that way then they would have said so and included it in the tutorials, which are pretty explicit on how the devs intended the game to be played. You cannot dispute that because there is nothing available to you to dispute it with. The tutorials were very clear on how they intended the game to be played. But I see no opposition argument against that point. Just a blind and empty defense for using some cheddar. The game does work in a number of ways - that were intended. You must have missed the hooker analogy. I don’t give a crap how anyone plays the game outside of the league But on behalf of all the players who play the game in this league as intended, thanks for calling us *garbage players*. This implies that the only players who are any good in this league are all cheese nips and everyone else can go to the dump. I didn’t go after anyone and call them cheaters. My points were solely about the method, not the player, in which the method cheesy AF. If you think TGCT can successfully ban this liquid gold, please tell them - and us - exactly how they would do that? The API is not the answer so you’ll need more than that or you will need to explain specifically how to work that API to catch violators. You will also need to set forth how you would separate the bad shots from the intentional. Looking forward to reading how you would police it |
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Post by nevadaballin on Mar 23, 2021 14:50:21 GMT -5
Tricking your avatar into whacking the ball 30 yards away from its aim point isn't this game or any golf game. " [T]he game of golf is about hitting a shot that will result in the highest percentage chance at scoring." Maybe true if we're discussing the actual sport, but this isn't real golf. Take any strategy comparisons or swing analogies and please throw out the window. It's a computer program. Sure, it simulates the sport, and the goal is to score low, but we're controlling a pixelated golfer with a controller. It's HB's world. HB's game. Not actual golf. HB challenges the player with tempo and accuracy. If not helping accuracy, why does the aim point exist? Why is it called Perfect and not Medium? Why is the Perfect 'channel' absolutely enormous on beginner? Perfect tempo is literally instructed by the game's loading screens. Why is the Red Fast tempo area so much larger than the Perfect channel on Master? The best clubs for dead accurate predictable Red Fasts have the lowest forgiveness ratings. Does that not make you pause even for a second? It's HB's game, not actual golf. Higher difficulty level, the game is mentally tougher. Do you Red Fast if playing on Pro-Am? I believe HB's intention was for players to experience self-doubt when playing their game. Rarely can a golf video game genuinely create such doubt. Call me old fashioned, but they succeeded and I like it. The Red Fast eliminates a large bulk of that mental sweat and required focus. This entitlement of expecting predictable shot results throughout video game golf is truly remarkable. This game in competitive circles has been absolutely cheapened and gutted. Congrats, it's conquered. But for what? Are they paying real money now? Is it actually enjoyable to cut corners on a computer game emulating an athletic endeavor? I mean how soft is that, let alone boring? Best parts about TGCTours are the competition and gaining respect within the community. We can still get along, and I can still focus on my own game, but how can we compare ourselves against other players? By height? Honestly really appreciate your and nevadaballin 's responses. Nice to have a chance at a decent discussion. Too hard to quote both and I think both are pretty much getting at the same thing. Apologies if I over simplify things a bit but both of you seem to be really banging the drum of "Its not how HB Intended to play the game!" or some version of that. Sure that is most likely the case. I agree they call it perfect tempo for a reason. But my real question... Does it matter how they intended you to play the video game? . In a league setting, it matters very much. Please keep in mind, for me this is totally about playing within a league environment. Leagues are meant to be a regulated competition and also maintain a spirit of fair play and respect for the spirit of the sport. That typically means playing the game the way it was intended and developed to be played. I ran a Madden league for almost a decade. Every iteration of that game has had cheesy crap we had to regulate out of it. Just because the game allows it to happen does not make it ok. In open play outside of this league, as I’ve mentioned a few times, I couldn’t care less. It’s the Wild West in open play vs your friends and in online matches. But league play, there’s a higher bar to be had. I’m sure TGCTours does not want to garner a reputation of being the home of Cheez-Its. They’ve worked too hard for too long for free to have *that* become their reputation in the video game world. Sadly they cannot police this so players try to appeal to their fellow players to maintain the spirit of the game. But they don’t have to abide to those appeals and we know HB isn’t going to make a move on this for this version of the game. Maybe we get a little more good fortune with the next game and this is no longer a point of contention:) |
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Post by oswinner on Mar 27, 2021 4:18:24 GMT -5
Hooks are way too overpowered in this game, which is why people play for them. Hope HB fixes it for the next game.
A fast downswing should lose carry distance but be a flatter shot that has loads of right to left run out in my opinion. You should only get good carry from a right to left shot if you’ve got a perfect clubface on impact and you’ve used the shot shaper or swing plane.
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Post by peskypeanut on Mar 27, 2021 7:58:35 GMT -5
I’ve previously stated I don’t mind how anyone play’s the game. But one thing that has annoyed me lately is streamers who play *exclusively* red fasts and claim they are good at the game.
Playing exclusively red fasts requires minimum talent. All it requires is to map out your horizontal and vertical deviation. It essentially makes each shot a mathematical calculation with nearly zero skill involved.
Reading greens aside, hitting perfect tempo is the only skill element this game has.
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Post by mrohde4 on Mar 27, 2021 8:30:14 GMT -5
I’ve previously stated I don’t mind how anyone play’s the game. But one thing that has annoyed me lately is streamers who play *exclusively* red fasts and claim they are good at the game. Playing exclusively red fasts requires minimum talent. All it requires is to map out your horizontal and vertical deviation. It essentially makes each shot a mathematical calculation with nearly zero skill involved. Reading greens aside, hitting perfect tempo is the only skill element this game has. Kind of like they’re playing a on a different difficulty level altogether... And the saddest part is everyone sees it and realizes it. But an inconsequential leaderboard is just too important. And this isn’t some righteous stance because my Perfect game can’t compete. I would be crap regardless, but at least we’d all be sitting on the same toilet. |
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Post by mousepotato on Mar 28, 2021 15:36:13 GMT -5
I play for fasts, most of the time, but I don’t like doing it! It’s an exploit and I know everyone can do it if they want but I’m not comfortable with it.
So... I practiced hitting perfects today, before my ‘Elite’ rounds. Then, I played the whole of round one, trying to hit perfects. It’s a tough track on the Elite tour this week but I was awful, hitting +7. Practice makes perfect, but I haven’t got the time to relearn the game and if I kept on trying for perfects I would be lower CC tour in no time.
For an experiment, I played round 2 using my normal game I.e. fasts... -8. So a 15 shot swing!
Until a new game comes out I’m going stick with playing fasts, as that round 1 was no fun at all! I am on 2 demotion marks after a bad tournament last week so I could be going down very soon anyway.
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Post by nevadaballin on Mar 28, 2021 16:41:28 GMT -5
This is absolutely comical at this point. You can change the game, but you can't change the crowd. And it's been an annoyance since the old TW games. Why is it that there is always a loud vocal minority, screaming and belittling like a temper tantrum, that the way they play the game is righteous and true and the only way the game should be played. It's the old whining about Amateur mode players BS. There are several tiers to play on here, so however you play or score, there is good competition for you. So I don't get the crying. Personally I have fun winning. I haven't in a awhile, but I enjoy it. So staying "true" to some self idealistic view of the game matters not to me. I play to have fun. Right now I've been transitioning from a lot of red fasts to mostly Perfects. Not because someone wants me to, but because I feel it's my best shot at getting back to competing for wins. I lost about 5 strokes a round changing over but I'm slowing showing signs of it coming together. I guess this whole post can be summed up in one line. "You just do you." No one is screaming at anyone. No one is belittling anyone else. No one is having a temper tantrum. I don’t think anyone was directly verbally assaulted or attacked here. The cheese has long been identified. So has the fact that it is legal to use in this league because it cannot be policed. Not the users fault but it is still a nuisance and a flaw of the game. Considering the title of the thread, I think the discussion has gone really well. The complaints aren’t about the players, they are about the game and HB’s unwillingness to fix it with a side of league environmentalism. . Hell HB won’t even fix a simple leaderboard display error so no one is holding their breath for any fix of any kind for the fasts. We just hope it’s addressed in the next game. I understand tone does not always come across in forum posts but ..... no one is having a mental breakdown over any of this. |
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Post by gatorman on Mar 28, 2021 18:08:56 GMT -5
I started this thread and appreciate all the input. Since TGCTours seems to be the only ones allowed to get swing data from the game, it would be great if the tours could be divided into red fast league and perfect league. I just want to compete on a level playing field.
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Post by Cecil Harvey on Mar 29, 2021 0:34:58 GMT -5
I play for fasts, most of the time, but I don’t like doing it! It’s an exploit and I know everyone can do it if they want but I’m not comfortable with it. So... I practiced hitting perfects today, before my ‘Elite’ rounds. Then, I played the whole of round one, trying to hit perfects. It’s a tough track on the Elite tour this week but I was awful, hitting +7. Practice makes perfect, but I haven’t got the time to relearn the game and if I kept on trying for perfects I would be lower CC tour in no time. For an experiment, I played round 2 using my normal game I.e. fasts... -8. So a 15 shot swing! Until a new game comes out I’m going stick with playing fasts, as that round 1 was no fun at all! I am on 2 demotion marks after a bad tournament last week so I could be going down very soon anyway. Sorry if it seems I am singling you out with my response, because I am not. But I want to use actual testimonial from a TGCT member to illustrate something. First off before I get into it, many in this thread talk about the elite players of the game and their tactics and how they would do well regardless and rollout, wind, putting etc. etc. That is not really disputed among the top level players. Full stop. Where I have the problem is those doing mentioned above. Using the red fast as a shortcut to not put time in. Using the red fast to get around the fact that some players playing for perfects use a lower distance driver than the 294/295 driver for the larger perfect "window". The larger amount of players using this aren't the Platinum players, rather they are the tours below it and many of these players are on a tour higher than they "should" be on due to the red fast shortcut. This only re-feeds back unto itself to disillusion others into the mindset that you have to play the red fast to compete and draws more and more players in to using it. For my part this is why I was more vocal in the early months of the game about this cheese to hopefully get a player or two, etc. to not adopt that way because I knew over time it would permeate itself slowly but surely and squeeze out more and more players trying for perfects. And here we are. Carry on and enjoy the game and TGCTours everyone however you play the game! |
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