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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2020 16:57:21 GMT -5
To me, the top tours HAVE to play on AT LEAST master, preferably legend. Lets see who the best is when the game is at its toughest, not whos the best when everyone is playing well because it's easy. Also, I think the haptic feedback is fine. Like Craig said, you still have to execute the shot. Without haptic feedback, you really dont have any feeling on when to start the downswing or how fast it should be, youre just waiting to see the animation get to a certain point. IRL, you DO have that feeling. I can go to the range right now and immediately start hitting 56* wedges to pins that are anywhere from 50%-85% my max distance with that club, because I have the muscle memory and feeling of how I need to hit that shot. That is what haptic feedback is designed to do. You arent waiting for a visual timing on shots, youre feeling yourself get to a certain point in the backswing and feeling yourself go through the downswing with a certain amount of force. So for anyone wondering, I will 100% be playing with haptic feedback on and I will 100% be setting up all my shots. TGC2019 didn't need haptic feedback and the putting is great and done by feel just as it should be. Putting looks really twitchy in the new game, it doesn't look like a fluid putting motion to me. Power meter on basically tells you how hard to hit every putt, I don't like that at all. |
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Post by itsmb8 on Aug 10, 2020 17:02:15 GMT -5
To me, the top tours HAVE to play on AT LEAST master, preferably legend. Lets see who the best is when the game is at its toughest, not whos the best when everyone is playing well because it's easy. Also, I think the haptic feedback is fine. Like Craig said, you still have to execute the shot. Without haptic feedback, you really dont have any feeling on when to start the downswing or how fast it should be, youre just waiting to see the animation get to a certain point. IRL, you DO have that feeling. I can go to the range right now and immediately start hitting 56* wedges to pins that are anywhere from 50%-85% my max distance with that club, because I have the muscle memory and feeling of how I need to hit that shot. That is what haptic feedback is designed to do. You arent waiting for a visual timing on shots, youre feeling yourself get to a certain point in the backswing and feeling yourself go through the downswing with a certain amount of force. So for anyone wondering, I will 100% be playing with haptic feedback on and I will 100% be setting up all my shots. TGC2019 didn't need haptic feedback and the putting is great and done by feel just as it should be. Putting looks really twitchy in the new game, it doesn't look like a fluid putting motion to me. Power meter on basically tells you how hard to hit every putt, I don't like that at all. From the streams I feel like the only reason the putting looks twitchy is because we all have the habit of immediately pulling it all the way back and immediately pushing it forward. Seems to me like the backswing for putting has to be slow and fluid. Regardless, my statement was mainly about full swing shots anyways. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2020 17:12:39 GMT -5
TGC2019 didn't need haptic feedback and the putting is great and done by feel just as it should be. Putting looks really twitchy in the new game, it doesn't look like a fluid putting motion to me. Power meter on basically tells you how hard to hit every putt, I don't like that at all. From the streams I feel like the only reason the putting looks twitchy is because we all have the habit of immediately pulling it all the way back and immediately pushing it forward. Seems to me like the backswing for putting has to be slow and fluid. Regardless, my statement was mainly about full swing shots anyways. I read I think from seamount4life that you can pull the putter head back really slowly till you feel that buzz so it doesn't really need to be a fluid putting motion and that eliminates the risk of over hitting your putt. |
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Post by Crazycanuck1985 on Aug 10, 2020 17:58:15 GMT -5
I know there is lots of push to absolutely crank the settings to as hard as possible for the top tours (swing meter off, legend difficulty, etc), but I feel you might be singing a different tune once you get your hands on it and spend the first 10 hours trying to break 85! Still, could be wrong though. Excited for the 21st! Stay tuned to my twitter/twitch. Some big announcements coming very soon regarding the game and lead up to launch!
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Post by seamount4life on Aug 10, 2020 22:47:21 GMT -5
I posted this in the HB Forums in regards to The Haptic Feedback, for context this was HB_CraigC wrote and I responded:
HB_CraigC wrote:
"Our stance is that haptic feedback indicating you are in the general area of your intent is no different than taking a practice swing and seeing where on your golfers body/where in the swing animation you are targeting your backswing transition point. You can still that target location on your golfer during your swing. You still have to perform the swing, you still have to transition at the right time... you still have to nail the downswing timing (off the green).
The putting distance control window on PRO is about 3x smaller than it was on Master in 2019... Legend is about 15x smaller."
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My response:
Wanted to chime in here because I have actually played the game. I do agree with some of what Craig is saying, but I also feel different in regards to a few things as well and I will go into what those are and why.
First I wanted to explain how it works before diving into more detailed thoughts because I think a lot of you may not completely understand it. The Haptic Feedback (HF) initiates during your swing at the point at which your Aim Marker is set. Most of the time this is at 100% because you are choosing to hit the full club, but if you move the Aim cursor to 75% for a partial swing, the HF will initiate at 75% instead. So during your full swing you would get a rumble at 75% and no where else. You are still able to take a full swing, and you still have to be good enough to stop at the rumble and start your downswing (Which is tough without the Distance meter bar on). So it isn't something that is as easy as many of you are making it out to be. And what Craig is saying about the user having to "Set it" is true in that regard. an easy Example would be, I have a SW that hits 100yds (100%), but I am 85yds from the pin. So I move my Aim Cursor down to 80yds (80%) because I intend to hit an 80% partial shot. I pull back on the stick and the HF initiates at 80% to give me a small indication on where that is in my swing animation. I Still have to execute that partial swing even though I have a better idea where that partial 80% is. I just as easily can still hit it 90% or 100% or 60% even though the rumble is at 80%. I can tell you from experience, this in general is still really tough to execute (Just like partial swings are tough to execute in TGC2019 and get exact percentages).
Overall I think the haptic feedback (HF) on swings is a cool feature and was pleasantly surprised by it when I turned off my distance control meter. I am not against the feature at all, especially on the lower difficulty presets. But here is where I start to feel differently than Craig in regards to HF. I believe it is a Swing Aid, and I believe it should be a toggle in the difficulty menus so it can be disabled in societies. I also believe it should be disabled by default on Legend Difficulty preset. I do think it bridges a good gap between Distance Control Meter being on vs. Distance Control Meter being off so having No Meter + HF in say Pro or Master Preset I think would be fine.
Craig's example of practice swing / intent part of the discussion is only partially true because it applies when the Aim marker starts at 100%. However, in my experience with the game it will sometimes make initial shot suggestions that bake in a partial shot percentage, so it wouldn't be the user moving the Aim marker in that case to "set" the percentage, it would be the game doing it for you. So in that example, the combination of the game suggesting you hit a 90% PW and putting the Aim marker at that range + the HF telling you where that is in your swing is now not something "Set by the player" and absolutely assists the player into hitting a better shot that they may not have come up with on their own. I also feel that the HF is much more of an Aid in Putting than any other shot on the course because you can pull the putter back VERY slowly and not get penalized like you do with other swing types. So with HF active, once you set the Aiming marker at a distance you can pull the putter back super slow and wait for the rumble (Which you can't do with the other shot types). This doesn't guarantee you'll hit it straight, or make the putt, but you have a much higher chance of hitting your desired distance which is extremely important with putting.
So I can understand where Craig is coming from, and I agree to a point with what he is saying. Most of the time HF is a slight aid that is set by the user and still tough to take advantage of consistently. However there are enough shots in a round where it can be much more of an Aid than I would like, especially while putting (which is a big problem). I don't see the problem in asking for a toggle in the difficulty menu regardless of how HB devs feel about the feature internally. That way if we choose we can force that into our societies as well as balance it with people who don't have rumble, or are using mouse swing. And on a game design level, I think rumble is a great bridge between Distance meter and No meter presets (IE use in Pro vs Master Preset, or Master vs Legend Preset). I also love it for the lower difficulty levels.
Hope this helps with the discussion.
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Post by itsmb8 on Aug 11, 2020 0:29:56 GMT -5
I think the best way to go about this, an hopefully they can patch this in, is HF on for both, swing shots only, putting only, or off. I think HF on for only non-putting shots would be best for us, but thats just me.
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Post by cseanny on Aug 11, 2020 1:55:51 GMT -5
For putting in 2019 I've always preferred an extremely slow, short (like 2 or 3 mm) stick movement because it allows you to hit the putt substantially straighter due to less cone deviation. Ideally I like to hit my putts with a putt line no bigger than this: streamable.com/w23gt3With the cancellation of backswing tempo in 2K21 I'll now be able to emulate my 2019 putt stroke for regular shots. I'm loving it!! This ability does have a draw back for the sim guys though due to no option to turn off HF within Societies. Anyways, here is Respawn explaining this mechanic:
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Post by ABU_Bear on Aug 11, 2020 6:15:04 GMT -5
If they do nothing to address the obvious server side issues the new game will just be a new look with old problems
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Post by rmaccari on Aug 11, 2020 8:03:26 GMT -5
I think the best way to go about this, an hopefully they can patch this in, is HF on for both, swing shots only, putting only, or off. I think HF on for only non-putting shots would be best for us, but thats just me. Totally agree, I think it would be the best setting in TrueSim |
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Post by Demonondalinks on Aug 11, 2020 9:08:32 GMT -5
If people just took the time with no grid you will find the best putting experience on any video golf game. It just takes a bit of time and practice. The big breaks are obvious it's those little breaks that are tough to read, just like real putting. TST stats will show that no grid putting is still easier than PGA Tour level putting. What's the big deal. If you pay 60 bucks for a game play it the way you want. We get it . You like it to be hard as possible, so do others. Some want the swing tough but want to view the course (most). Green grid on or off who cares. It's up to the individual. Just have a good time playing the way you want against people who play your way. It's just a video game. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 9:30:33 GMT -5
If people just took the time with no grid you will find the best putting experience on any video golf game. It just takes a bit of time and practice. The big breaks are obvious it's those little breaks that are tough to read, just like real putting. TST stats will show that no grid putting is still easier than PGA Tour level putting. What's the big deal. If you pay 60 bucks for a game play it the way you want. We get it . You like it to be hard as possible, so do others. Some want the swing tough but want to view the course (most). Green grid on or off who cares. It's up to the individual. Just have a good time playing the way you want against people who play your way. It's just a video game. Your quote you digged out from me from about 5 days ago was part of a discussion about grids vs non grid for realism. I actually enjoyed the streams watching people play with grids and have always thought that people should play how they want, I have always said there is no right or wrong way to play the game in the past and the new game will be a big step up for grid players who want more challenge. Just was a suggestion to give no grids a bit of time as it is a slow learning curve. Anyway enough about that as I am really looking forward to TST in this game as it will be a big step forward for that tour. |
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Post by Demonondalinks on Aug 11, 2020 9:48:19 GMT -5
What's the big deal. If you pay 60 bucks for a game play it the way you want. We get it . You like it to be hard as possible, so do others. Some want the swing tough but want to view the course (most). Green grid on or off who cares. It's up to the individual. Just have a good time playing the way you want against people who play your way. It's just a video game. Your quote you digged out from me from about 5 days ago was part of a discussion about grids vs non grid for realism. I actually enjoyed the streams watching people play with grids and have always thought that people should play how they want, I have always said there is no right or wrong way to play the game in the past and the new game will be a big step up for grid players who want more challenge. Just was a suggestion to give no grids a bit of time as it is a slow learning curve. Anyway enough about that as I am really looking forward to TST in this game as it will be a big step forward for that tour. Sorry, hadn't looked at this thread for a while. |
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Post by sandsaver01 on Aug 11, 2020 9:48:30 GMT -5
If people just took the time with no grid you will find the best putting experience on any video golf game. It just takes a bit of time and practice. The big breaks are obvious it's those little breaks that are tough to read, just like real putting. TST stats will show that no grid putting is still easier than PGA Tour level putting. What's the big deal. If you pay 60 bucks for a game play it the way you want. We get it . You like it to be hard as possible, so do others. Some want the swing tough but want to view the course (most). Green grid on or off who cares. It's up to the individual. Just have a good time playing the way you want against people who play your way. It's just a video game. The constant proselytizing by hammersman and andersnm is why I completely blocked them from everything. You are still forced to see their responses when someone quotes them, but I avert my eyes 🙈. I fully support their right to have there opinion, but they are the Jehovah's Witnesses of Sim golf - coming to your door constantly. |
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Post by sanchez on Aug 11, 2020 10:03:03 GMT -5
What's the big deal. If you pay 60 bucks for a game play it the way you want. We get it . You like it to be hard as possible, so do others. Some want the swing tough but want to view the course (most). Green grid on or off who cares. It's up to the individual. Just have a good time playing the way you want against people who play your way. It's just a video game. The constant proselytizing by hammersman and andersnm is why I completely blocked them from everything. You are still forced to see their responses when someone quotes them, but I avert my eyes 🙈. I fully support their right to have there opinion, but they are the Jehovah's Witnesses of Sim golf - coming to your door constantly. I think they are the same person..its always the same stuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 10:08:24 GMT -5
I think everyone has a right to an opinion about the game. But singling out individuals for criticism because you don't agree with them is not a good look in my eyes. Anyway I have thick skin and respect people's opinions whether I agree with them or not.
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