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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 18, 2020 17:17:55 GMT -5
I think they're eventually going to get over this nonsense of shutting everything down and having people go back to normal... These complete shutdowns of everything nonessential is going to ruin the economy. Nonsense?? China shut down for only 2 months and is barely getting any new cases now. Over 400 Italians have died in the last 24hrs. Nonsense...smh... People can't go to school or work and give people this disease which then leads to people dying, that can't be allowed to happen. Meanwhile, hearing strong suggestions that London will go into complete lockdown in the next 1-3 weeks. It went from not having cases at the beginning to now having over a third of all cases and it's spreading far quicker here. The govts need to bail out their economies. They did it for the banks! Or we can do your idea, keep businesses open, but let 10s of thousands of people die in each country. (No, it's not the same as the flu...) |
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Post by nevadaballin on Mar 18, 2020 17:29:54 GMT -5
I think they're eventually going to get over this nonsense of shutting everything down and having people go back to normal... These complete shutdowns of everything nonessential is going to ruin the economy. It isn't nonsense bud. Ignoring it or thinking it isn't a big deal will revisit the history of 1918. Why would we not want to learn that lesson from past mistakes? The ignorance and hiding of it by government and the news media back then led to millions of people dying. Millions. Worldwide. That isn't nonsense. This is a serious contagion. People have already died from it. The economy can (and will) always come back. Dead people cannot. |
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Post by nevadaballin on Mar 18, 2020 17:37:04 GMT -5
If you get the Smithsonian Channel, the program I linked earlier about the 1918 Pandemic airs at 4pm Pacific time (7 ET, 25 minutes from now). I highly recommend watching it just for its educational value.
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Post by karma4u on Mar 18, 2020 17:45:07 GMT -5
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Post by karma4u on Mar 18, 2020 18:11:17 GMT -5
Yet, dire times can bring out the very best in humanity.
CNN) — The staff at a popular Houston restaurant got a $9,400 tip from some regular customers who wanted to help them get by during the coronavirus shutdown.
The couple came for an early dinner at Irma’s Southwest restaurant on Monday, after learning that all restaurants in the county would have to close their dining rooms and only offer takeout and delivery service, restaurant owner Louis Galvan told CNN.
“We didn’t expect it, to be honest with you,” Galvan said. “They left a gratuity for the entire kitchen and service staff, which is unexpected.”
They left $1,900 in cash and put another $7,500 tip on a credit card, Galvan said. He said the couple wanted to be anonymous.
The bill for their meal was $90.12.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 18:20:31 GMT -5
I will stop. Sorry. On topic I have three very good friends who own restaurants. This is killing them and their employees. Feel horrible for them. Try and support you local restaurants by getting some food to go here and there. My wife goes to work this weekend in the ICU. Very concerned about her getting it but she is in great health so she should be ok even if she does get. Which could mean I get it. Not worried about myself I just would not want to give to my dad or mom. Which would be easy to do since we work together. What a mess. Hey Paul, nobody wants to see anyone suffer losses of any kind. Most people are no longer getting a paycheck to buy take out from restaurants. Hell, they won't even be able to buy toilet paper when they can find it at some point. This is why the government needs to keep money in people's wallets. And it needs to be more than $1,000. Probably more like $3,000. If they don't, every business in this country will close. As for the Constitutional aspect of shutdowns, the government is well within its right to do so when it comes to public safety. Their #1 priority is to keep us safe against all foreign and domestic enemies - including pandemics. #1. Tops. Above and beyond anything else. If there is an enemy putting the general public at risk, then the Constitution gives the government the right to intervene. That is the point of declaring state and national emergencies. It gives state and federal governments the leeway to ensure public safety. When it is a medical concern, your state public health officials wield a lot of power in this area - but it has to be "overwhelmingly in the public interest, rooted in rational, scientific ends and done by the least intrusive means possible..." A man in Missouri left quarantine to attend a father-daughter dance at a nearby hotel prompting county health officials to warn “he must remain in his home or they will issue a formal quarantine that will require him and the rest of his family to stay in their home by the force of law.”
You don’t have a right to assemble against the backdrop of known public health risk. The CDC has guidelines on legal authorities governing isolation and quarantine as well as the types of laws and regulations that come into play during a pandemic.I hope that helps with understanding why the government can do what they are doing. The links are very informative. But here are a couple of keys from them: Public Health Service Act
The Public Health Service (PHS) Act forms the foundation of the HHS’ legal authority for responding to public emergencies by authorizing the HHS Secretary to take key actions, such as lead all federal public health and medical response, declare a public health emergency, assist states in meeting health emergencies, maintain the Strategic National Stockpile, and control communicable diseases. The PHS Act was amended by the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act (PAHPA) of 2006External and the Pandemic and All-Hazards Reauthorization Act (PAHPRA) of 2013. Quarantine and IsolationThe federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states. The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). So this is all Constitutional. If you heard that unconstitutional stuff from someone else you are now armed with facts to correct them. You can say or quote whatever you want. The amount of people that have died vs infection is not a health concern. It's tyranny. Once this ball rolls when does it stop? A lot if businesses will never recover from this . It's a huge over reach of power. And I guarantee the lawsuits are coming. Why not shut down south side Chicago or Baltimore. Why not shut down the highways . Why not shutdown any American city because of od of opioid addiction? Shut it all down. Combine all that and tell me which is worse. Coronavirus? Not even close. This is destroying people's lives economically for no reason. Lol on government giving free money. I guess trickle down only works if the government prints it ? |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 18, 2020 18:36:21 GMT -5
Wow, just wow.
How exactly does shutting down cities stop the opioid crisis? Insane false equivalence. Cities are being shut down TEMPORARILY because there's an infectious disease, we don't have a vaccine for yet, that is killing people. The solution to the opioid crisis and gang violence is a complex one that has nothing to do with shutting down any cities.
I "guarantee" there won't be any lawsuits, and that these govts across different countries are acting well within their legal powers.
I don't understand how people can morally defend the idea that it's not ok to risk people's businesses, but it IS ok to literally kill thousands of extra people by being reckless with the disease control.
I've already stated that govts should be bailing out businesses. let them off their rental for 3 months for example. Give them grants to boost their business once things get going again. But asking me to support the above is just sheer madness...
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Post by catcherman22 on Mar 18, 2020 18:44:02 GMT -5
Hey Paul, nobody wants to see anyone suffer losses of any kind. Most people are no longer getting a paycheck to buy take out from restaurants. Hell, they won't even be able to buy toilet paper when they can find it at some point. This is why the government needs to keep money in people's wallets. And it needs to be more than $1,000. Probably more like $3,000. If they don't, every business in this country will close. As for the Constitutional aspect of shutdowns, the government is well within its right to do so when it comes to public safety. Their #1 priority is to keep us safe against all foreign and domestic enemies - including pandemics. #1. Tops. Above and beyond anything else. If there is an enemy putting the general public at risk, then the Constitution gives the government the right to intervene. That is the point of declaring state and national emergencies. It gives state and federal governments the leeway to ensure public safety. When it is a medical concern, your state public health officials wield a lot of power in this area - but it has to be "overwhelmingly in the public interest, rooted in rational, scientific ends and done by the least intrusive means possible..." A man in Missouri left quarantine to attend a father-daughter dance at a nearby hotel prompting county health officials to warn “he must remain in his home or they will issue a formal quarantine that will require him and the rest of his family to stay in their home by the force of law.”
You don’t have a right to assemble against the backdrop of known public health risk. The CDC has guidelines on legal authorities governing isolation and quarantine as well as the types of laws and regulations that come into play during a pandemic.I hope that helps with understanding why the government can do what they are doing. The links are very informative. But here are a couple of keys from them: Public Health Service Act
The Public Health Service (PHS) Act forms the foundation of the HHS’ legal authority for responding to public emergencies by authorizing the HHS Secretary to take key actions, such as lead all federal public health and medical response, declare a public health emergency, assist states in meeting health emergencies, maintain the Strategic National Stockpile, and control communicable diseases. The PHS Act was amended by the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act (PAHPA) of 2006External and the Pandemic and All-Hazards Reauthorization Act (PAHPRA) of 2013. Quarantine and IsolationThe federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states. The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). So this is all Constitutional. If you heard that unconstitutional stuff from someone else you are now armed with facts to correct them. You can say or quote whatever you want. The amount of people that have died vs infection is not a health concern. It's tyranny. Once this ball rolls when does it stop? A lot if businesses will never recover from this . It's a huge over reach of power. And I guarantee the lawsuits are coming. Why not shut down south side Chicago or Baltimore. Why not shut down the highways . Why not shutdown any American city because of od of opioid addiction? Shut it all down. Combine all that and tell me which is worse. Coronavirus? Not even close. This is destroying people's lives economically for no reason. Lol on government giving free money. I guess trickle down only works if the government prints it ? 100% agree with this.. should we be taking preventative measures sure.. should we shut everything down... no. I'm all for having a sick bank for those who have been exposed or are showing symptoms or for those at most risk.. but preventative measures this extreme are just ridiculous. Forcebly shutting down businesses will only ruin the economy. You can't compare this to the 1918 flu... medicine is a bit different than it was then... it's more comparable to H1N1 in 2009. We didn't freak out then. Look at the death rate for Covid... between 15 and 44.. (.1%) … 45 and 64.. (.5%). Even for those over 65 it's hovering at around 2% right now... Anybody dying is said, but the flu kills people every year as well... it's a part of life. With the rate we're going, we're going to have 20% ish people unemployed... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 18:57:51 GMT -5
Wow, just wow. How exactly does shutting down cities stop the opioid crisis? Insane false equivalence. Cities are being shut down TEMPORARILY because there's an infectious disease, we don't have a vaccine for yet, that is killing people. The solution to the opioid crisis and gang violence is a complex one that has nothing to do with shutting down any cities. I "guarantee" there won't be any lawsuits, and that these govts across different countries are acting well within their legal powers. I don't understand how people can morally defend the idea that it's not ok to risk people's businesses, but it IS ok to literally kill thousands of extra people by being reckless with the disease control. I've already stated that govts should be bailing out businesses. let them off their rental for 3 months for example. Give them grants to boost their business once things get going again. But asking me to support the above is just sheer madness... Again children don't get it. So you are good. Once something like this happens it will happen again. I guess when you have zero skin in the game it's easy to not see for what this really is. Fear. I'll bet you whatever you make a year that lawsuits are coming. Taker? |
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Mar 18, 2020 18:58:24 GMT -5
You can say or quote whatever you want. The amount of people that have died vs infection is not a health concern. It's tyranny. Once this ball rolls when does it stop? A lot if businesses will never recover from this . It's a huge over reach of power. And I guarantee the lawsuits are coming. Why not shut down south side Chicago or Baltimore. Why not shut down the highways . Why not shutdown any American city because of od of opioid addiction? Shut it all down. Combine all that and tell me which is worse. Coronavirus? Not even close. This is destroying people's lives economically for no reason. Lol on government giving free money. I guess trickle down only works if the government prints it ? 100% agree with this.. should we be taking preventative measures sure.. should we shut everything down... no. I'm all for having a sick bank for those who have been exposed or are showing symptoms or for those at most risk.. but preventative measures this extreme are just ridiculous. Forcebly shutting down businesses will only ruin the economy. You can't compare this to the 1918 flu... medicine is a bit different than it was then... it's more comparable to H1N1 in 2009. We didn't freak out then. Look at the death rate for Covid... between 15 and 44.. (.1%) … 45 and 64.. (.5%). Even for those over 65 it's hovering at around 2% right now... Anybody dying is said, but the flu kills people every year as well... it's a part of life. With the rate we're going, we're going to have 20% ish people unemployed... You can recover from an economic depression. You can't recover from death. And also this is NOT the flu. |
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Post by boffo on Mar 18, 2020 19:01:15 GMT -5
The US/Canada border was shut down this morning to all non-essential traffic. Ontario itself declared a state of emergency yesterday and closed down bars, eating in at restaurants, theatres, etc. They keep suggesting people stay home as much as possible but have yet to shutter all non-essential businesses. It still feels like that announcement could come at any time. The federal government has also already detailed parts of their financial support for both businesses and individuals. Both me and my wife are currently still working and she may be considered essential while I almost certainly will not be, but I think we should be able to handle ourselves financially unless it drags on for several months.
On the positive side of things I typically hate humanity for the most part so I've been practicing social distancing most of my life. It makes it so much easier to do when everybody else is cooperating.
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 18, 2020 19:02:31 GMT -5
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Mar 18, 2020 19:05:42 GMT -5
Wow, just wow. How exactly does shutting down cities stop the opioid crisis? Insane false equivalence. Cities are being shut down TEMPORARILY because there's an infectious disease, we don't have a vaccine for yet, that is killing people. The solution to the opioid crisis and gang violence is a complex one that has nothing to do with shutting down any cities. I "guarantee" there won't be any lawsuits, and that these govts across different countries are acting well within their legal powers. I don't understand how people can morally defend the idea that it's not ok to risk people's businesses, but it IS ok to literally kill thousands of extra people by being reckless with the disease control. I've already stated that govts should be bailing out businesses. let them off their rental for 3 months for example. Give them grants to boost their business once things get going again. But asking me to support the above is just sheer madness... Again children don't get it. So you are good. Once something like this happens it will happen again. I guess when you have zero skin in the game it's easy to not see for what this really is. Fear. I'll bet you whatever you make a year that lawsuits are coming. Taker? People sue over the dumbest sh%$ so yeah im sure there will be lawsuits. Children DO get coronavirus. (Google: asymptomatic). It is not FEAR but preventative. |
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Post by catcherman22 on Mar 18, 2020 19:08:55 GMT -5
100% agree with this.. should we be taking preventative measures sure.. should we shut everything down... no. I'm all for having a sick bank for those who have been exposed or are showing symptoms or for those at most risk.. but preventative measures this extreme are just ridiculous. Forcebly shutting down businesses will only ruin the economy. You can't compare this to the 1918 flu... medicine is a bit different than it was then... it's more comparable to H1N1 in 2009. We didn't freak out then. Look at the death rate for Covid... between 15 and 44.. (.1%) … 45 and 64.. (.5%). Even for those over 65 it's hovering at around 2% right now... Anybody dying is said, but the flu kills people every year as well... it's a part of life. With the rate we're going, we're going to have 20% ish people unemployed... You can recover from an economic depression. You can't recover from death. And also this is NOT the flu. Again..... the death rate is comparable to every other viral infection we have as long as you are under 65... it is a tad bit higher for over 65... I will give you that. This isn't going to kill more people than any other disease... the only reason this is getting attention is because there is no vaccine against it. If the flu didn't have a vaccine, we'd see similar numbers for the flu like we are now. It's more like the flu than you want to give it credit for. The media has blown this out of whack. We're destroying the economy.. having 20% unemployed is not worth the extreme effort we are making. Again, I am not saying we don't do anything... I'm against the forceable closure of every non essential business\. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 18, 2020 19:10:15 GMT -5
Again children don't get it. So you are good. Once something like this happens it will happen again. I guess when you have zero skin in the game it's easy to not see for what this really is. Fear. I'll bet you whatever you make a year that lawsuits are coming. Taker? People sue over the dumbest sh%$ so yeah im sure there will be lawsuits. Children DO get coronavirus. (Google: asymptomatic). It is not FEAR but preventative. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't suggesting that in the most litigious country on earth, that zero would people would attempt to sue someone. I was saying there won't be widespread lawsuits, there won't be successful lawsuits, and that the countries aren't even close to overstepping the legal boundaries of what they can do in situations like this. |
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