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Post by Generic_Casual on Feb 27, 2020 7:30:52 GMT -5
Sometimes half my line is in the cone. The top half. The bottom is always left of it. Sometimes I miss left of my target. Sometimes I stay right of target. Sometimes I am nowhere near the cone. Even with putts? Got tied up playing live with Albert last night, so no video from me. I have videos in the Show Me Yours thread. I'll try to get another one up. I assure you that I'm not "gaming" it. However, people have opinions. Fair enough. I try to hit it straight and it is TERRIBLE. I guess if we make the choice to pull all non-straight, then I'll be done. No big deal really. This place is a bunch of fun, but I refuse to try and "fix" my swing to make others happy. I've always watched people play/swing and they look super straight. I wish I could do the same. Really. I play games for fun. Not to be a chore. If you all swing straight and miss, then how far do you miss? I literally can't tell you how far I miss. I play some Augusta for warm-up and then me tour rounds. Usually. That's it. Maybe 5 rounds a week or a touch over. Zero more than that. I can't tell you how far my miss is because I just don't know. End of the day, not going to stress over it. The admin and everyone here are wonderful people. All I can do is see what they decide to do. Sorry if this post offends anybody. It's 2020. ๐๐ I remember awhile back some people here began making not so clever and snide comments about your swing. But of course only when you started consistently putting up good scores. I knew one day they would turn on you so to speak and here we have it. And I find it ironic that hitting too straight was all the outrage before and now it's hitting too crooked. Oh, fadge, I quoted Daxon not you so please. Yeah, I find it funny. It's fine either way. Trying to hit it "straight" feels really weird and is a chore. People can say what they want. My lines might look like MJF's scribblings, but at least they go all the way to the top! ๐๐ I also noticed that nobody has any advice for "how to swing straight". Nor can they tell me how far they miss when they do. I find that convenient. If I'm just using my left thumb/left stick and pulling back and pushing forward and I get this feedback, then what do y'all suggest? TGC sucks as a game with all its bullshit. I'm only playing because of the site/community. I'm sure if I get pulled/leave/quit y'all could have some solace in knowing you're a spot higher on the boards that mean nothing at all. ๐๐ I miss Olu. ๐๐ Edit: I forgot to mention this...I have no idea about the circle/mishit/range thing y'all speak of as you can see I don't use the circle to aim for shots. At least I think I don't. ๐ฌ๐ฌ
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 7:36:08 GMT -5
An idea, Doyley The data you use for the algorithm based on shots performed by players (good and bad) over the years you were able to make a fair analysis on what should be possible and what shouldn't in terms of a straight swing. Could this same data not be used to also determine how far off the center from the good but most importantly the lesser players on average, which would be just another algorithm working independently? I mean would that not at least prevent the obscurities you see now that no doubt stand out above all other years and therefore make some reasonable assumption it was deliberate? I don't know, I mean I assume this is what you mean about there being no middle ground but this would at least be something close to a compromise that was still fair. I think that being able to identify who is indeed, or has indeed changed their swing recently to take advantage of this, vs those that have just always played this way would only be good for character reference (for what good that would be, I don't know). So many people used a flick / short swing technique since the dawn of time, but had to change and did change as it produced unfair results. No need to name names, but there are plenty. Others continue to do it, but just bad enough to get past the API, like that funny Aussie fella. Crunchy or something. The point is, I think, that now that it is very obvious that the push / pull is a clear advantage, if it's abused, intentionally, or unintentionally, there may be some consequences for it. Whether it's an ingrained thing, or a recently adopted thing - I don't think there is a way to change anything regards the ruling, whether you can identify that difference or not. The metric (whatever it is set at) needs to be black and white, regardless of supposed intent.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 7:37:34 GMT -5
Thats fine. I just need to know what I can and can't do. I dont wanna be in dream world wondering if I'm going to get pulled or not. I know this is so people cant do borderline api stuff but if its deemed fair then it should be fair to be on the borderline. I'm sorry but if this is going to be policed at least do it right. I mean I dont run this site and I appreciate those who do but I just want to know what is and isn't fair by standard. If the best Im gonna get is an idea then I don't want anything and Ill just pack up my bags. We will play our rounds thinking can i play this shot like this or no ?
Will i get caught or not on all shot we'll hit. Lots of us did this due to swinging a certain way, for a long time... It's not a new thing for many on tour, but, it goes away over time.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 7:39:20 GMT -5
I remember awhile back some people here began making not so clever and snide comments about your swing. But of course only when you started consistently putting up good scores. I knew one day they would turn on you so to speak and here we have it. And I find it ironic that hitting too straight was all the outrage before and now it's hitting too crooked. Oh, fadge, I quoted Daxon not you so please. Yeah, I find it funny. It's fine either way. Trying to hit it "straight" feels really weird and is a chore. People can say what they want. My lines might look like MJF's scribblings, but at least they go all the way to the top! ๐๐ I also noticed that nobody has any advice for "how to swing straight". Nor can they tell me how far they miss when they do. I find that convenient. If I'm just using my left thumb/left stick and pulling back and pushing forward and I get this feedback, then what do y'all suggest? TGC sucks as a game with all its bullshit. I'm only playing because of the site/community. I'm sure if I get pulled/leave/quit you could have some solace in knowing you're a spot higher on the boards that mean nothing at all. ๐๐ I miss Olu. ๐๐
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 7:48:22 GMT -5
Be interested to see what all your thoughts are on this A few thoughts. If you are squirting a little right but sitll in the cone your misses should have the same variance as everyone else, so it is a 'no advantage' push swing and couldn't be considered an issue by anyone
Turning the scout camera off is something I would support and it does take away the aiming advantage, but it doesn't solve the lower dispersion relative to the variance in the swing line.
I think a lot of players on here don't want the scout camera off and are really focused on studying the red and yellow spots on the greens prior to their approach to figure out how to run out the ball toward the hole. If I am correctly understanding how it works this would also take that away, which would be fine with me but probably unpopular
Agree with this Ben, and Scott, thanks for going into the detail on that one - your ideas would provide a different challenge, certainly, but as Ben says, wouldn't take away the bizarre repeatability of this, particularly with the lofting. We all know fine well that someone will be immediately working out the clicks or what not to get things back on track. It's a tricky problem to deal with fairly and effectively, if it's dealt with at all.
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Post by nick80 on Feb 27, 2020 8:15:58 GMT -5
We will play our rounds thinking can i play this shot like this or no ?
Will i get caught or not on all shot we'll hit. Lots of us did this due to swinging a certain way, for a long time... It's not a new thing for many on tour, but, it goes away over time. Sorry but for me there's absolutly no pleasure playing like that Maybe i will thinking of get back playing on xb1 and fighting to make the cut. Because i was so far from all this bullshit.
Even Xbox tempo issues are less frustated than reading all these complains and theories.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Feb 27, 2020 8:40:32 GMT -5
I have zero access to any API data and have only ever seen analysis of those values when posted publicly. With that level of understanding, I honestly don't see how this can be policed via API. As someone who only really learned of this technique this week, tried it out to see the overwhelming advantage it gives, and is disheartened at the idea that it's being used in a way that gives advantage to those purposefully (key word) exploiting it, I still have a really hard time imagining how an API-DQ system would work for this issue - just seems like a really slippery slope. Again, I'm firmly in the "this technique should not be used" camp, but I just don't see this playing out well...hope I'm wrong, though.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 8:54:55 GMT -5
Lots of us did this due to swinging a certain way, for a long time... It's not a new thing for many on tour, but, it goes away over time. Sorry but for me there's absolutly no pleasure playing like that Maybe i will thinking of get back playing on xb1 and fighting to make the cut. Because i was so far from all this bullshit.
Even Xbox tempo issues are less frustated than reading all these complains and theories.
1 - It wasn't nice. Not enjoyable, but nice to come through the other side knowing that you've eradicated something that was producing results that the rest of the field were incapable of. Understand everyone's issues are different, however. 2 - Seems extreme to me, but whatever you feel you need to do. I'm not here to change your mind. From what I remember, the only bullshit you are involved with is that you got pulled for repeatable input last week, but may well be wrong. 3 - No complaints, no theories here Nick - pretty well proven facts (assume you are talking about push / pull). There have been private complaints and theories for a while, and they were private as they were just that, theories, but this last week has solidified a lot of what was believed as fact. No doubt this will frustrate some people. Hope you get your problems ironed out.
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Post by deathstar on Feb 27, 2020 8:59:02 GMT -5
I have zero access to any API data and have only ever seen analysis of those values when posted publicly. With that level of understanding, I honestly don't see how this can be policed via API. As someone who only really learned of this technique this week, tried it out to see the overwhelming advantage it gives, and is disheartened at the idea that it's being used in a way that gives advantage to those purposefully (key word) exploiting it, I still have a really hard time imagining how an API-DQ system would work for this issue - just seems like a really slippery slope. Again, I'm firmly in the "this technique should not be used" camp, but I just don't see this playing out well...hope I'm wrong, though. Depending on how the API data looks (which I don't know), it might be possible to set an outer value for left and right of the cone and then decide that a certain percentage of the shots has to be inside these values.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 8:59:56 GMT -5
I have zero access to any API data and have only ever seen analysis of those values when posted publicly. With that level of understanding, I honestly don't see how this can be policed via API. As someone who only really learned of this technique this week, tried it out to see the overwhelming advantage it gives, and is disheartened at the idea that it's being used in a way that gives advantage to those purposefully (key word) exploiting it, I still have a really hard time imagining how an API-DQ system would work for this issue - just seems like a really slippery slope. Again, I'm firmly in the "this technique should not be used" camp, but I just don't see this playing out well...hope I'm wrong, though. Depending on how the API data looks (which I don't know), it might be possible to set an outer value for left and right of the cone and then decide that a certain percentage of the shots has to be inside these values. Exactly that.... That's the way I'd do it anyway.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 9:03:53 GMT -5
Anyway, back to my usual role of busybody know-it-all...
3 down (all 2020 season API virgins)... After such an impressive finish last week it's a bit of a blow for #3, I'm sure. A far throw from Wild Geese in Bangkok, that's for sure.
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Post by Generic_Casual on Feb 27, 2020 10:10:24 GMT -5
I guess my videos don't warrant a response.
Meh.
I posted them for all to see.
Let's not forget the math we must do and roll we must account for.
Don't forget the wind either.
I'm over it to be quite honest.
I suppose I'll play until I'm pulled.
I still say my my pull is of varying degrees on all full swings.
Still waiting for someone to tell me how far they miss when swinging straight.
#birdbox
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 27, 2020 10:49:36 GMT -5
I guess my videos don't warrant a response. Meh. I posted them for all to see. Let's not forget the math we must do and roll we must account for. Don't forget the wind either. I'm over it to be quite honest. I suppose I'll play until I'm pulled. I still say my my pull is of varying degrees on all full swings. Still waiting for someone to tell me how far they miss when swinging straight. #birdbox Iโll get round to it mate - appreciate you posting, just busy at work... Letโs just be clear - regardless of whether youโre gaining an advantage or not, itโs quite clear to me that itโs just the way you play.
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Post by nick80 on Feb 27, 2020 10:56:40 GMT -5
Sorry but for me there's absolutly no pleasure playing like that Maybe i will thinking of get back playing on xb1 and fighting to make the cut. Because i was so far from all this bullshit.
Even Xbox tempo issues are less frustated than reading all these complains and theories.
1 - It wasn't nice. Not enjoyable, but nice to come through the other side knowing that you've eradicated something that was producing results that the rest of the field were incapable of. Understand everyone's issues are different, however. 2 - Seems extreme to me, but whatever you feel you need to do. I'm not here to change your mind. From what I remember, the only bullshit you are involved with is that you got pulled for repeatable input last week, but may well be wrong. 3 - No complaints, no theories here Nick - pretty well proven facts (assume you are talking about push / pull). There have been private complaints and theories for a while, and they were private as they were just that, theories, but this last week has solidified a lot of what was believed as fact. No doubt this will frustrate some people. Hope you get your problems ironed out. I was really not talking about my little person
The road you wish to take is laudable but it will lead to even more drama and endless discussions.
But ok maybe i'm wrong, we'll see. Thank you for the wish We'll see tonight if i can cheat the api (no it's sarcasm )
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Feb 27, 2020 11:15:10 GMT -5
I still say my my pull is of varying degrees on all full swings. Brief watch - but I agree. It's a straightish line that clearly favours the left of the blue area but doesn't venture that far outside of it.
The people "doing the bad thing" are hitting deliberately crooked lines way outside the blue area safe in the knowledge the dispersion out there is far less.
Can see why people who don't "hit it straight" are concerned, but I'd be seriously surprised if your API graph looked anything like those who are using the "exploit". To my uneducated eye the two are totally different things.
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