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Post by gamesdecent on Mar 4, 2020 10:16:17 GMT -5
How about if his course thread stated what he was trying to do and included pics of Irish links courses and the 100’+ high dunes?
Would that THEN be reasonable?
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 10:18:46 GMT -5
Just to be clear mate, as you seem like an actual human being, I had BIG issues with some of the judge's comments. Go back and you will see me commenting or liking comments criticising that stuff. If we can just go back purely to this thread though, someone was called out and ridiculed for not knowing what a particular type of course was, and basically discounted as having any value as a judge. Do you find THAT reasonable? No. By the way, using capital letters for emphasis is highly discouraged in all serious writing. Signed, A writer So typing comments on a website for a golf game is "serious writing" now? 🤔 I've got 2 degrees, and didn't use capitals to emphasise words I wanted emphasising in any of my work; signed a person who likes to use an in informal writing style where appropriate. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 10:19:24 GMT -5
How about if his course thread stated what he was trying to do and included pics of Irish links courses and the 100’+ high dunes? Would that THEN be reasonable? Dude, I think we're talking at cross purposes here... |
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Post by gamesdecent on Mar 4, 2020 10:21:03 GMT -5
My bad.
I will go back and edit my response to a more encouraging “you did your best, can’t wait for next year, please keep volunteering to judge, koombayah, etc.”
I’m sure that will get my point across much more effectively.
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Post by ryanmcconnell on Mar 4, 2020 10:24:04 GMT -5
JFC. I never directly said anything about you. I am speaking generally and have been during this whole conversation. But please go on and tell me I am wrong. I’m sorry your panties are in a bunch. And enough with the all caps you T W A T. Ah, encountering ANOTHER person in my online experience who has no idea what capital letters are for. Using capital letters for single words dotted around your writing is simply used to emphasise words for effect. Go and look it up, teach yourself something. Sorry you've had such a bad reaction to correct use of the English language. I won't reply to your childish insult; any work I wanted to do making you look bad, you're doing all on your own anyway... You're speaking generally, yet replied IMMEDIATELY after two people were talking about their knowledge, and involved in a conversation with someone else on the same subject. Using exaggerated and demeaning terms. And we're just supposed to accept that as "general" and "common sense" talk from you. That's a really unrealistic expectation. Anyway, I can't see where this will go any further with you. I don't feel we're even debating the same point, so my motivation is very low. But needed to say the above. Suffice to say, I MASSIVELY disagree with you, both in terms of the words actually said by each person, and you're overall perspective on things. Bye now...
Fist of all, ever since winning my 3rd grade spelling bee, nbd, I have had nothing but love for the english language. Am i perfect at it? no, but I'm always trying to get better. I personally see your all caps as an annoying "look at me, i have something important to say!"
that said, let's revisit the first thing i added to the conversation...
"Well, at the end of the day, it is a design contest. If you have no experience or background in it, or worse yet, no intention of educating yourself, then you probably shouldn’t be a judge."
My guess is most rational people would read that and come to the conclusion that it is both a fairly "general" and "common sense" statement. Then again, maybe I'm way off base here. Either way, I stand by it, and if you disagree with it, i will always come to the conclusion that you are wrong.
Good day, SIR.
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Post by jwtexan on Mar 4, 2020 10:24:46 GMT -5
No. By the way, using capital letters for emphasis is highly discouraged in all serious writing. Signed, A writer So typing comments on a website for a golf game is "serious writing" now? 🤔 I've got 2 degrees, and didn't use capitals to emphasise words I wanted emphasising in any of my work; signed a person who likes to use an in informal writing style where appropriate. An informal writing style is fine, but you touted it as some kind of by the book method (in a rude way I might add) below: Using capital letters for single words dotted around your writing is simply used to emphasise words for effect. Go and look it up, teach yourself something. Sorry you've had such a bad reaction to correct use of the English language. "Teach yourself something" was a super classy touch. We are on the internet for a niche golf game. I think by now most of us know that capital letters mean yelling or emphasis in these forums. Overusing it shows your ignorance. But, in the end, that isn't even really your entire point of being here is it? You got what you wanted. A ton of replies, a ton of interaction, and another completely derailed thread thanks to your comments. Congrats. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 10:28:21 GMT -5
So typing comments on a website for a golf game is "serious writing" now? 🤔 I've got 2 degrees, and didn't use capitals to emphasise words I wanted emphasising in any of my work; signed a person who likes to use an in informal writing style where appropriate. An informal writing style is fine, but you touted it as some kind of by the book method below: "Using capital letters for single words dotted around your writing is simply used to emphasise words for effect. Go and look it up, teach yourself something." Teach yourself something was a super classy touch by the way. But, in the end, that isn't even really your entire point of being here is it? You got what you wanted. A ton of replies, a ton of interaction, and another completely derailed thread thanks to your comments. Congrats. Wow, it was ME who lacked class and wanted attention?? Really?? I stuck up for someone who I felt was unfairly attacked. Go back and look at my first two comments today, on page 5 and tell me what's attention seeking about that. (After that I was just responding to someone.) And compare to the person who is clearly someone you like, and have therefore completely ignored their "contribution..." "Ignorant" is literally the last word anybody I care about would say about me, so mr anonymous from Texas saying it bothers me VERY little. I don't view occasional caps usage as shouting. I'll happily back out now, but you're WAY off the mark there... |
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Post by ryanmcconnell on Mar 4, 2020 10:34:06 GMT -5
"attacked" seems a bit strong. I mean, if you live in Australia and know anything about golf, yet have not heard of Royal Melbourne... baffling, really.
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Post by jwtexan on Mar 4, 2020 10:36:09 GMT -5
An informal writing style is fine, but you touted it as some kind of by the book method below: "Using capital letters for single words dotted around your writing is simply used to emphasise words for effect. Go and look it up, teach yourself something." Teach yourself something was a super classy touch by the way. But, in the end, that isn't even really your entire point of being here is it? You got what you wanted. A ton of replies, a ton of interaction, and another completely derailed thread thanks to your comments. Congrats. Wow, it was ME who lacked class and wanted attention?? Really?? I stuck up for someone who I felt was unfairly attacked. Go back and look at my first two comments today, on page 5 and tell me what's attention seeking about that. (After that I was just responding to someone.) And compare to the person who is clearly someone you like, and have therefore completely ignored their "contribution..." I'll happily back out now, but you're WAY off the mark there... If you scroll through my post history I think you will find generally nice interactions with just about everyone here. You even touted me as "an actual human being" just recently. High praise. I rarely get in the mud to be honest unless it is in a joking way and that usually includes a gif. Congrats on joining the likes of tott and grinder who are really the only people I can think of off the top of my head who I have had a back and forth like this. I've ended up with the same opinion of you as I have of them. |
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Post by gamesdecent on Mar 4, 2020 10:43:07 GMT -5
"attacked" seems a bit strong. I mean, if you live in Australia and know anything about golf, yet have not heard of Royal Melbourne... baffling, really. RIDICULED, even, for me essentially saying the lawyer equivalent of “nothing further, Your Honor.” |
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Post by lessthanbread on Mar 4, 2020 10:52:33 GMT -5
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 14:26:55 GMT -5
I hesitate to reply because I don’t want to make anything worse, as I’ve done my fair share of that already. I’ve been pulling back from the forums lately, in part, due to my poor example of behavior after the results in group E, and in part because I know lots of people here are weary of my presence anyway, but I feel compelled to say something on this.
It’s unfortunate to see so many people I know are good guys with good intentions going after it. Although I haven’t agreed with all of the judging (and I set a bad example with my behavior), I do believe they were trying their best and they didn’t mean for this type of reaction toward their time as volunteers. Likewise, I don’t believe any of the designers have malicious intentions with their reactions to the results, although it’s natural for us to take it very personally when our work is misunderstood. But at the end of the day, this is ultimately just a bunch of guys with conviction to their opinions of what they like in each course, and everybody has that right to their favorites.
With that being said, and I intend for this to be objective and not a personal attack on anyone, I agree with the underlying point that RJM is making. If I were a judge and I didn’t understand what the vibe of Frankston was going for, I would’ve researched it a bit before deciding on the matchup. That doesn’t mean anybody is an unqualified judge, it just means for each course we should understand the design aspects before judging them. If after doing that the judge still didn’t believe it should go through, I can accept that as their right of subjective opinion. However, I can certainly understand Jamie’s frustration with losing points or getting eliminated because of design aspects that were executed intentionally but misunderstood.
So again, that is not to say any judge is worthless, or lacks value, but just to suggest that for the future, let’s agree to understand the design goal of the course better before marking down its deficiencies, that may not actually be deficiencies at all.
I think we’re all learning a little something from this contests, whether as designers, judges, or community spectators. I myself have learned that I need to handle things differently and better in the future if I do any contests again. But despite our missteps, I don’t think anyone involved here has bad intentions.
Okay, back to my silence.
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Post by golfwolfuk on Mar 4, 2020 14:35:45 GMT -5
Don’t be away too long eric, your a valued member here and I for one enjoy your streams and input into this community.
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Post by coggin66 on Mar 4, 2020 15:20:04 GMT -5
I don't get why the judges have to have design experience. Since longer than I can remember here, we have wanted judges to be a combination of designers and players. I would hope the former would have some design knowledge but I expect none from the latter.
It we change to only having design knowledge we will get even fewer judges not more and it will just be an echo chamber of the self-proclaimed design cognoscenti.
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Post by b101 on Mar 4, 2020 15:37:09 GMT -5
I don't get why the judges have to have design experience. Since longer than I can remember here, we have wanted judges to be a combination of designers and players. I would hope the former would have some design knowledge but I expect none from the latter. It we change to only having design knowledge we will get even fewer judges not more and it will just be an echo chamber of the self-proclaimed design cognoscenti. Yes and no. I wouldn't want it to be ONLY designers, as it's great to get feedback of what everyone enjoys. But, in this case, there's got to be more understanding. The Sandbelt look has been tried by numerous people and this is (no offence to those guys) by miles the best go at it and the limitations are only in the software that we have. I totally agree with Eric's post: if you don't get what he's doing but can see that everything else is really, really good, surely you need to ask as there'll be other judges who do. That's not seeking their opinion, but rather trying to understand why something is why it is. Please note that I'm not saying you should be an expert - but equally, we shouldn't don't pretend to be one and be happy to ask others when not sure. Otherwise it becomes a pure opinion contest when it isn't. There wasn't poor technical execution on Frankston; quite the opposite, as the look was pulled off perfectly with a huge amount of time and skill. To be hammered for that in technical categories isn't right, IMO. I do think we need designers and players, but I will be up front and state that I believe you can't properly get the technical side of things unless you have spent a good amount of time in the designer. That's not saying that people who only play shouldn't judge - far from it - more that there's stuff you only find out or learn to spot through designing. |
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