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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 9:08:26 GMT -5
Which painting is better?   Judging is inherently subjective and we are all subject to our own biases as we look at courses. That said judging any kind of contest requires a certain level of expertise. I’m not saying you have to be the next Tom Doak or MacKenzie but if you don’t have a pretty solid understanding for the items that you were being asked to judge it’s probably not in the best interest for you to be judging them. Any contest in the world that I can think of that requires judging requires a pretty solid level of experience and background in the area that they are judging. Bottom line from my point of view is we should not expect our judges to be complete and total experts as this is an online Internet thing but we also should not accept that people who don’t have any background in this area should judge the contest. Join the design community build up a little bit of a resume for course building and playing the game and then apply to be a judge. |
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Post by ryanmcconnell on Mar 4, 2020 9:11:38 GMT -5
You’re right. It is not your fault some inept judges were selected. Your really arrogant and dismissive tone won't help solve this issue. I don't even agree with you either, so there's that too... If you honestly don’t think any knowledge or education with design in either the real world or this game helps you being a judge, then I don’t know what else to say except you’re wrong. There are several examples from just this contest alone. Sorry if that comes across as arrogant or whatever else you might want to throw my way, but after the hours we spend on these courses, it would be reassuring to know that they are not being judged by people who don’t know what the @!$# they are talking about. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 9:24:16 GMT -5
Your really arrogant and dismissive tone won't help solve this issue. I don't even agree with you either, so there's that too... If you honestly don’t think any knowledge or education with design in either the real world or this game helps you being a judge, then I don’t know what else to say except you’re wrong. There are several examples from just this contest alone. Where did ANYBODY use the phrase "I don't have ANY knowledge of golf design or courses"?? Love it when people make a little change to what's been said to try and ram home a point. You're talking to people in a condescending tone, talking about things being "obvious" and "common sense" and then can't even do the simplest thing of making your point based on what's ACTUALLY been said...smh... You're making a point with little to no value, and you're alienating people, not a great contribution... |
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Post by gamesdecent on Mar 4, 2020 9:50:25 GMT -5
Just signed up to judge a wine conference in Napa this summer, heard there was free alcohol. Hope the vintners are prepared for my feedback.  |
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Mar 4, 2020 9:57:56 GMT -5
I suppose the positive side of this is the judges can save their time with feedback as it'll just be dismissed.
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 9:59:42 GMT -5
Where did ANYBODY use the phrase "I don't have ANY knowledge of golf design or courses"?? Love it when people make a little change to what's been said to try and ram home a point. You're talking to people in a condescending tone, talking about things being "obvious" and "common sense" and then can't even do the simplest thing of making your point based on what's ACTUALLY been said...smh... You're making a point with little to no value, and you're alienating people, not a great contribution... JFC. I never directly said anything about you. I am speaking generally and have been during this whole conversation. But please go on and tell me I am wrong. I’m sorry your panties are in a bunch. And enough with the all caps you T W A T. Ah, encountering ANOTHER person in my online experience who has no idea what capital letters are for. Using capital letters for single words dotted around your writing is simply used to emphasise words for effect. Go and look it up, teach yourself something. Sorry you've had such a bad reaction to correct use of the English language. I won't reply to your childish insult; any work I wanted to do making you look bad, you're doing all on your own anyway... You're speaking generally, yet replied IMMEDIATELY after two people were talking about their knowledge, and involved in a conversation with someone else on the same subject. Using exaggerated and demeaning terms. And we're just supposed to accept that as "general" and "common sense" talk from you. That's a really unrealistic expectation. Anyway, I can't see where this will go any further with you. I don't feel we're even debating the same point, so my motivation is very low. But needed to say the above. Suffice to say, I MASSIVELY disagree with you, both in terms of the words actually said by each person, and you're overall perspective on things. Bye now... |
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Post by jwtexan on Mar 4, 2020 10:01:47 GMT -5
I suppose the positive side of this is the judges can save their time with feedback as it'll just be dismissed. Celtic I definitely respect your opinion and am not intending to call you out with this quote as I assume these comments did not come from you. But it is pretty hard not to dismiss a judges opinion when things like this are included in their summary... (from page 1 of this thread) "The clubhouse area was fine but the course must have been closed as there was no cars in the parking lot. A pity about the glaring errors here. This could have been a nice course but designing rules and basics are there to set standards in design." |
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Mar 4, 2020 10:07:41 GMT -5
Which painting is better? It's the top one, duh! |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 10:08:49 GMT -5
I suppose the positive side of this is the judges can save their time with feedback as it'll just be dismissed. Celtic I definitely respect your opinion and am not intending to call you out with this quote as I assume these comments did not come from you. But it is pretty hard not to dismiss a judges opinion when things like this are included in their summary... (from page 1 of this thread) "The clubhouse area was fine but the course must have been closed as there was no cars in the parking lot. A pity about the glaring errors here. This could have been a nice course but designing rules and basics are there to set standards in design." Just to be clear mate, as you seem like an actual human being, I had BIG issues with some of the judge's comments. Go back and you will see me commenting or liking comments criticising that stuff. If we can just go back purely to this thread though, someone was called out and ridiculed for not knowing what a particular type of course was, and basically discounted as having any value as a judge. Do you find THAT reasonable? |
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Post by gamesdecent on Mar 4, 2020 10:09:57 GMT -5
Honestly, anything that is opinion in judges’ notes SHOULD be disregarded. We all have different opinions, doesn’t mean any of them are wrong, just more or less popular. If I did something wrong technically, sure, I’ll hear that feedback out. Specific hole strategy/layout suggestions, fire away, I’m all ears. VERY rarely is feedback specific though, unfortunately.
I didn’t even request the judges’ notes for this contest if that tells you anything.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Mar 4, 2020 10:10:30 GMT -5
I suppose the positive side of this is the judges can save their time with feedback as it'll just be dismissed. Celtic I definitely respect your opinion and am not intending to call you out with this quote as I assume these comments did not come from you. But it is pretty hard not to dismiss a judges opinion when things like this are included in their summary... (from page 1 of this thread) "The clubhouse area was fine but the course must have been closed as there was no cars in the parking lot. A pity about the glaring errors here. This could have been a nice course but designing rules and basics are there to set standards in design." It's cool Wes as that's not my comment, as a designer myself I can see how comments made in the initial group stage period annoyed people. I'd be willing to share how I voted on every match I was designated either on here or via PM if anyone is interested. |
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Post by jwtexan on Mar 4, 2020 10:10:42 GMT -5
Celtic I definitely respect your opinion and am not intending to call you out with this quote as I assume these comments did not come from you. But it is pretty hard not to dismiss a judges opinion when things like this are included in their summary... (from page 1 of this thread) "The clubhouse area was fine but the course must have been closed as there was no cars in the parking lot. A pity about the glaring errors here. This could have been a nice course but designing rules and basics are there to set standards in design." Just to be clear mate, as you seem like an actual human being, I had BIG issues with some of the judge's comments. Go back and you will see me commenting or liking comments criticising that stuff. If we can just go back purely to this thread though, someone was called out and ridiculed for not knowing what a particular type of course was, and basically discounted as having any value as a judge. Do you find THAT reasonable? No. By the way, using capital letters for emphasis is highly discouraged in all serious writing. Signed, A writer |
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Post by gamesdecent on Mar 4, 2020 10:14:30 GMT -5
If we can just go back purely to this thread though, someone was called out and ridiculed for not knowing what a particular type of course was, and basically discounted as having any value as a judge. Do you find THAT reasonable? If I’m Irish, don’t watch golf, but go outside and play it occasionally, and I’m judging a course attempting to be an Irish links course and one of my comments is something to the effect of “not sure what he was going for here with all the giant hills next to the ocean” do you find THAT reasonable? |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 10:14:56 GMT -5
Honestly, anything that is opinion in judges’ notes SHOULD be disregarded. We all have different opinions, doesn’t mean any of them are wrong, just more or less popular. If I did something wrong technically, sure, I’ll hear that feedback out. Specific hole strategy/layout suggestions, fire away, I’m all ears. VERY rarely is feedback specific though, unfortunately. I didn’t even request the judges’ notes for this contest if that tells you anything. If you want to have a general conversation about how judging should happen, that's absolutely fine, but that's not where this originally started... |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 4, 2020 10:16:14 GMT -5
If we can just go back purely to this thread though, someone was called out and ridiculed for not knowing what a particular type of course was, and basically discounted as having any value as a judge. Do you find THAT reasonable? If I’m Irish, don’t watch golf, but go outside and play it occasionally, and I’m judging a course attempting to be an Irish links course and one of my comments is something to the effect of “not sure what he was going for here with all the giant hills next to the ocean” do you find THAT reasonable? Yeah, I'm ok with that. The thing I challenged in here wasn't even about comments in judging?! Is what about how somebody here was being spoken to... |
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