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Post by Riotous on Feb 20, 2020 4:56:39 GMT -5
Evening Ben, are you on here 24hrs a day!
It was a general comment rather than Frankston specific, but in my idea the course competition admission would be much much more detailed than Frankstons completed course thread write up.
Anyway, just an idea in an attempt for future competition improvement.
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Post by b101 on Feb 20, 2020 5:16:01 GMT -5
Evening Ben, are you on here 24hrs a day! It was a general comment rather than Frankston specific, but in my idea the course competition admission would be much much more detailed than Frankstons completed course thread write up. Anyway, just an idea in an attempt for future competition improvement. Not quite - just get notifications for threads I've posted in (and half term helps!). Not a bad idea by any means, but some don't like detailed course writeups and some do. Either way, you would have hoped that people spotted that it was a Sandbelt course and (if not) asked themselves or others on the judging panel why the bunkers cut in to the greens in the way that they did. |
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Post by golfwolfuk on Feb 20, 2020 5:52:36 GMT -5
Thing is, Jamie had all of this in his course thread... Sam, In the case of frankston, the comments or areas at Frankston that were marked down were as above... it is as if nobody had taken a look to see what it was that I was trying to achieve. Pics of sandbelt bunkering and explanations of why I did cut the bunkers into the playing surfaces, also that shot placement was integral to the design.... I see where your comming from, and it’s not just Frankston that suffered as a result. |
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Post by Riotous on Feb 20, 2020 6:16:33 GMT -5
Thing is, Jamie had all of this in his course thread... Sam, In the case of frankston, the comments or areas at Frankston that were marked down were as above... it is as if nobody had taken a look to see what it was that I was trying to achieve. Pics of sandbelt bunkering and explanations of why I did cut the bunkers into the playing surfaces, also that shot placement was integral to the design.... I see where your comming from, and it’s not just Frankston that suffered as a result. I 100% agree with you Jamie, they can’t have read your course thread. My comment was miss timed and probably posted in the wrong area as it wasn’t meant to re-open wounds. In respect to Frankston I loved the course, if I’m honest the greens were a bit tough for me, but they weren’t unfair and were exceptionally sculpted. I also loved your desert course in the RDC, so I’m looking forward to what you produce next. |
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279 
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Feb 20, 2020 7:02:34 GMT -5
Might be worth sending the tournament director some course information when submitting your entry, for example... - Where the course inspiration came from - Hole by Hole strategy - Routing strategy Etc etc This would eliminate some of the responses I’ve read by judges, whilst also helping them see what the designer was trying to achieve. It’s frustrating to spend months designing something and then have the idea missed/misinterpreted/ignored. Just an idea This thought crossed my mind yesterday as well, but I don't know if I'm completely sold on it. The points you lay out make sense as there have been plenty of instances where the designer's intentions have been incorrectly labeled as sloppy technical flaws as opposed to conscious design choices. An explainer would help in that regard, almost like a menu to the 18-course meal the judges are about to consume. But, where I get hung up is the question of is this a course design contest or a writing contest? While some take great pride in there course thread, others are like there you are, have at it. Should we be required to be the salesmen of our courses, or should we be able to let the quality of our work speak for itself? I can see both sides of that debate. Also, if you have a hole can be played a number of different ways (let's use 13 at Fisheye for example), do you want to tell the judge the best way to attack, or do you want them to try to find that on their own b/c that part of the cunning of the design? Lastly, I've heard some stories of potential TLDR in terms of how to use the rubric and how judging notes would be disseminated. Would adding more things for the judges to read slow down the process, or would the designer notes simply be glossed over? |
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Post by golfwolfuk on Feb 20, 2020 7:03:00 GMT -5
There were no real wounds bud, so no worries there. Any constructive suggestion isn’t mistimed or not appreciated, it’s meant to build going forward, and that’s all good.
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Post by Riotous on Feb 20, 2020 7:29:38 GMT -5
I think that
“designer's intentions have been incorrectly labeled as sloppy technical flaws as opposed to conscious design choices”
is very important.
Too much information isn’t useful, but to spend so long creating something and then to have (in an extreme case) the theme of the course dismissed, must be stopped from happening again.
You are right that someones course shouldn’t be at an advantage because they are more articulate than someone else or better at creating scorecards. I don’t know what the answer is, but it’s worth exploring and discussing
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Post by b101 on Feb 20, 2020 8:29:56 GMT -5
But, where I get hung up is the question of is this a course design contest or a writing contest? Might help though with, say, some judges confused by an out of place bunker... 😉 |
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Feb 20, 2020 8:31:02 GMT -5
They have to actually read it though. Asking a lot ;-)
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Post by Oscar C on Feb 20, 2020 8:37:01 GMT -5
They have to actually read it though. Asking a lot ;-) Exactly. It’s my opinion that both the submission process and judging process require specific formalisation. Throwing it out there that maybe uniformity in submissions will help align judging also. I don’t know what this looks like but initially my mind goes to some kind of template to submit the course for the contest that allows for designer comment regarding the specifics of their course design. I know some people like the back stories and or pretty scorecards but maybe that’s over and above and not part of what is required as a minimum. |
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Post by coggin66 on Feb 20, 2020 22:27:29 GMT -5
I personally think the judges summary comments should not be posted in these public threads - just their rubric total scores.
I was a judge in last year's WCOD and a number of my summaries did not read well out of context of the whole scoring sheet.
All entrants (once eliminated) should receive their full scoring sheets so they can learn from relevant comments but any debate between judge and designer can then occur via PM not in open roasting forum.
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Post by Davidius74 on Mar 3, 2020 22:37:06 GMT -5
Evening Ben, are you on here 24hrs a day! It was a general comment rather than Frankston specific, but in my idea the course competition admission would be much much more detailed than Frankstons completed course thread write up. Anyway, just an idea in an attempt for future competition improvement. Not quite - just get notifications for threads I've posted in (and half term helps!). Not a bad idea by any means, but some don't like detailed course writeups and some do. Either way, you would have hoped that people spotted that it was a Sandbelt course and (if not) asked themselves or others on the judging panel why the bunkers cut in to the greens in the way that they did. Well I for one stopped looking at WIP's as soon as I was selected as a judge. I didn't want any preconceived ideas or to be swayed by other opinions before playing the course. Now I have lived in Australia my whole life and never travelled overseas. Have seen so much of this big country and if anyone would pick it then the only Australian judge should have. Yet I had absolutely no idea it was meant to be an Australian sand belt course. Posting stuff in Wip threads is fine but if other judges like me weren't looking at them so we could see a course for the first time when we played it then that is where the write-up should be given to judging coordinator to pass on to judges so we had a better idea of what the designer was trying to achieve. Not only for this course but all 32. |
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Post by gamesdecent on Mar 3, 2020 23:06:50 GMT -5
I mean if you live in Australia and needed a write up to tell you it was Sandbelt, I don’t really know what else needs to be said.
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Post by coggin66 on Mar 4, 2020 0:26:29 GMT -5
I mean if you live in Australia and needed a write up to tell you it was Sandbelt, I don’t really know what else needs to be said. Australia is a big country and you are assuming that everyone who plays the game follows golf in real life. |
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Post by golfwolfuk on Mar 4, 2020 5:29:29 GMT -5
Not quite - just get notifications for threads I've posted in (and half term helps!). Not a bad idea by any means, but some don't like detailed course writeups and some do. Either way, you would have hoped that people spotted that it was a Sandbelt course and (if not) asked themselves or others on the judging panel why the bunkers cut in to the greens in the way that they did. Well I for one stopped looking at WIP's as soon as I was selected as a judge. I didn't want any preconceived ideas or to be swayed by other opinions before playing the course. Now I have lived in Australia my whole life and never travelled overseas. Have seen so much of this big country and if anyone would pick it then the only Australian judge should have. Yet I had absolutely no idea it was meant to be an Australian sand belt course. Posting stuff in Wip threads is fine but if other judges like me weren't looking at them so we could see a course for the first time when we played it then that is where the write-up should be given to judging coordinator to pass on to judges so we had a better idea of what the designer was trying to achieve. Not only for this course but all 32. Im not hitting out, but, we’re not talking wips,.. were talkin completed course threads where all the info that the designer would like to make clear is written in them. They are basically a brief write up on the course and the designers intentions. There is no need for write ups when we gave these threads. |
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