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Post by blueorfe on Jan 9, 2020 20:07:55 GMT -5
-23 through two.
Played well in round one, could have been a couple lower as I missed a couple of short range eagle chances.
Went to get a drink, came back and started swinging it like Charles Barkley. Didn't find my swing until the 14th, which wasn't ideal. 30 putts, you just have to laugh really.
Great course, good luck all left to play.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 9, 2020 23:46:04 GMT -5
The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time.
Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts.
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Post by flyingj75 on Jan 10, 2020 0:30:37 GMT -5
The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time. Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts. Umm, no. 19 Tournaments won by 12 players, six of which have been API'D, some several times. Now, I don't compete to win, I'm not there, but the numbers, tha hard data, does not agree with this take in my opinion. Also, last year was totally dominated by the flickiest flicker that ever flicked.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 0:40:58 GMT -5
flyingj75 I don't think anything I said really disputed anything you're saying that much. I'm saying that there's multiple people competing every week who aren't flickers in any way. And just like every year of TGCT that's existed there's an elite group at the top who account for the wins more weeks than not, and then there's another group right below them who are mostly top 15 or top 20 guys but can compete for a win occasionally. Then there's the group who are fighting to make cuts most weeks and unless they catch absolute fire for 4 rounds, typically don't ever sniff a top 10. I'm probably settling into that second group right now as I've started playing more but not quite catching the consistency I need. I used to be in the first group for a short period a few years ago when I put it in the time and there's been guys in years past who were dominant like Rawesy and not flickers. But what I'm saying is most people can probably fit into that second group if they're either willing to put in a bunch of practice time or find some other way to improve their game whether it's a skill or even a new controller that might straighten the old swing. The margin from fighting for cuts to consistent top 20's and occasional tournament contention isn't very big in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 1:34:24 GMT -5
I'm probably settling into that second group right now as I've started playing more but not quite catching the consistency I need. I used to be in the first group for a short period a few years ago when I put it in the time and there's been guys in years past who were dominant like Rawesy and not flickers. Flicking wasn't a massive advantage until TGC19. It may or may not have helped in TGC2, and I don't think it mattered much at all in TGC1.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 2:12:18 GMT -5
I'm probably settling into that second group right now as I've started playing more but not quite catching the consistency I need. I used to be in the first group for a short period a few years ago when I put it in the time and there's been guys in years past who were dominant like Rawesy and not flickers. Flicking wasn't a massive advantage until TGC19. It may or may not have helped in TGC2, and I don't think it mattered much at all in TGC1. Yeah, just saying it's not new for there to be a dominant guy or two with flicking or without it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 2:28:55 GMT -5
Flicking wasn't a massive advantage until TGC19. It may or may not have helped in TGC2, and I don't think it mattered much at all in TGC1. Yeah, just saying it's not new for there to be a dominant guy or two with flicking or without it. The point is correct about there always being a dominant handful/group of a dozen or two dozen. That isn't really the point to some members here.
The counterpoint is that in the past the dominant handful/group of those top players were playing almost exactly on the same level with regards to fair play in TGC1 and mostly on the same level in TGC2. TGC2 is where API started and the API pulls were much more sporadic (mind you this is anecdotal on my part) in TGC2 then we have now in TGC19 on the top tier. That tells me the structure of the game itself has changed and/or people have found a workaround/advantage/ch*** to use.
Members would also accept much, much easier being beaten week to week when they know that the majority or nearly all of the top 25 or so are playing on a mostly even field. This also applies to the platform/console advantages that PS4 has over PC and especially XB1. There is plenty of frustration to be had at HB not only in the lack of doing anything about either the basic console differences and especially the flick advantage that is a disproportionate PS4 thing! They won't even admit it is a thing.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 2:55:31 GMT -5
Yeah, just saying it's not new for there to be a dominant guy or two with flicking or without it. The point is correct about there always being a dominant handful/group of a dozen or two dozen. That isn't really the point to some members here.
The counterpoint is that in the past the dominant handful/group of those top players were playing almost exactly on the same level with regards to fair play in TGC1 and mostly on the same level in TGC2. TGC2 is where API started and the API pulls were much more sporadic (mind you this is anecdotal on my part) in TGC2 then we have now in TGC19 on the top tier. That tells me the structure of the game itself has changed and/or people have found a workaround/advantage/ch*** to use.
Members would also accept much, much easier being beaten week to week when they know that the majority or nearly all of the top 25 or so are playing on a mostly even field. This also applies to the platform/console advantages that PS4 has over PC and especially XB1. There is plenty of frustration to be had at HB not only in the lack of doing anything about either the basic console differences and especially the flick advantage that is a disproportionate PS4 thing! They won't even admit it is a thing.
Won't argue you at all on the platform part. What a strange time this is where I can assume my finishing position on PS4 will basically be my finish position on the entire tour. I remember on TGC1 I used to worry about Ian, Tyler Harris, Bradley and a handful of other guys on PS4 while there were dozens on other platforms that could compete any week. I might be less weary of flicking because swinging straight is usually not something I worry about except for when I had the broken controller. I feel like distance control in wind and putting is still what it truly comes down to for me and maybe I assume that's the case for everyone else as well. Still, there's nothing much we can do about it and my point stands that are numerous non flickers contending for wins most weeks. I mainly just tire of the "This game just bores me now, I never play and I can't compete with anyone and I hate it." And even more when people act like putting 30 guys in a tour by themselves would make anything better.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 10, 2020 3:08:00 GMT -5
The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time. Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts. If there's 20-30 flickers always in the top 50 of the leaderboards, that's having a massive effect, and stopping people who could be challenging for top 10-30 spots each week...
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Post by hippystein on Jan 10, 2020 3:47:22 GMT -5
Totally agree with you both. The advantage that people have is there to be seen. I said the other week the controllers for xbox and ps4 make a massive difference. If people score well on pc they are probably using a ps4 pad over the xbox due to the shorter movement of the stick back and forth. The short swing has ruined the tour and because it can be easily manipulated as people have stated before giving you a massive advantage with accuracy over others that swing full. When you look at the stats on tour on some of these courses and the players have had 18/19 putts in a round and the longest putt is 12ft. That advantage is massive. Swinging full like you know you have to play percentages to get close alot of the time cos if your even slightly off and get a squirt right or a slight pull left it is magnified whereas if you flick it wont go left. Squirt is minimal and even chipping doesnt squirt. When i chip i always have to move it left to allow for the squirt. Sometimes it can be a box others i allow and it goes straight. Just like real golf there is an air of uncertainty. With the manipulated swing it is less so. The only way to get it more on an even keel would be make everyone use pro clubs. It evens the tempo thing out cross platform and you'd be putting all tours on the same level. But it'll never happen Id love to see a test event set as an additional one week with no money at stake and make it open to everyone but pro clubs only. Just to see what the scoring was like and the stats from it all because i reckon it would be a lot more bunched up across the board. Also i believe that the other platforms would get a fairer crack too. Just an idea! No ranking points no cash just a test to see whether or not it makes any difference. More strategic too cos there wont be none of this full loft driver to short par four to inside 10ft that we see so regularly. I think we all just want the tour as fair as possible and at the minute you know there are certain holes you just cant attack with a full swing but you can with the short swing.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 4:04:55 GMT -5
The complaining about not being able to compete with the top guys stuff gets old, especially when acting like it's just because of flickers. I've never had a single full swing not go to the very top of the line and I still feel like I can compete to win any week. There are multiple people like that who have been competing here for a very long time. Either put the time in to try to get better, figure out how to get better without putting the time in, or just don't complain about feeling like you're fighting to make cuts. If there's 20-30 flickers always in the top 50 of the leaderboards, that's having a massive effect, and stopping people who could be challenging for top 10-30 spots each week... No clue if that number is right or not, but either way, that's not the real point I'm making. The point I'm making is not matter what, the grouping of TGCT leaderboards have largely been the same for the last 5 years. An elite group, a very good and usually competing group and the group that fights to make cuts. With or without the flickers, the third group always has members in the forums saying they're bored and barely play anymore and can't compete with the top. They also sometimes suggest completely changing the tour construction to something awful.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 10, 2020 4:15:57 GMT -5
If there's 20-30 flickers always in the top 50 of the leaderboards, that's having a massive effect, and stopping people who could be challenging for top 10-30 spots each week... No clue if that number is right or not, but either way, that's not the real point I'm making. The point I'm making is not matter what, the grouping of TGCT leaderboards have largely been the same for the last 5 years. An elite group, a very good and usually competing group and the group that fights to make cuts. With or without the flickers, the third group always has members in the forums saying they're bored and barely play anymore and can't compete with the top. They also sometimes suggest completely changing the tour construction to something awful. And I'm saying that no matter what level someone is (competing for wins, as you are suggesting the "moaners" need to do,) potential top 10-20, or making cuts (another important distinction,) flickers taking up the upper half of the leaderboards affects EVERYONE, not just those attempting to finish very high.
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Post by Generic_Casual on Jan 10, 2020 4:33:20 GMT -5
I think there's more non-flickers up there to be quite honest. We've all seen what happened to the best flicker in the world of TGC. She quit flicking/is attempting to quit and now can't play the game. RIP, Ronda.
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 4:52:21 GMT -5
No clue if that number is right or not, but either way, that's not the real point I'm making. The point I'm making is not matter what, the grouping of TGCT leaderboards have largely been the same for the last 5 years. An elite group, a very good and usually competing group and the group that fights to make cuts. With or without the flickers, the third group always has members in the forums saying they're bored and barely play anymore and can't compete with the top. They also sometimes suggest completely changing the tour construction to something awful. And I'm saying that no matter what level someone is (competing for wins, as you are suggesting the "moaners" need to do,) potential top 10-20, or making cuts (another important distinction,) flickers taking up the upper half of the leaderboards affects EVERYONE, not just those attempting to finish very high. So I'm talking about something different and you're talking about something that's talked about every single week and isn't going to change for a while. Everyone can carry on complaining about not being able to compete now. 👍
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Post by theduke21 on Jan 10, 2020 4:55:09 GMT -5
I think there's more non-flickers up there to be quite honest. We've all seen what happened to the best flicker in the world of TGC. She quit flicking/is attempting to quit and now can't play the game. RIP, Ronda. Agreed. Maybe they have data to back up those numbers but I'd think such an unnatural swinging motion that isn't legal doesn't make up such a large percentage of players at this point.
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