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Post by PithyDoctorG on Feb 18, 2020 22:06:09 GMT -5
This might be too on the nose...but why don't we do what TGC does with "rivalries" in the career mode and go head to head with specific criteria. Give the nod to one course over an other based on 5-7 "things" If you want to keep the ties, then use an even number of categories. Otherwise, use an odd number. Pick something fairly "tangible" when choosing categories (I'll use two courses from our Group...mine and Hallstatt) ---------- Immersion - Hallstatt (much better backstory and good lord look at the scenery in the background. Scawt was good, Hallstatt was better) Theme - Hallstatt (took much more advantage of the Swiss theme than Scawt did of the Links theme) Playability for all - Scawt (easier for players of all club types, Hallstatt is a bear for pro clubs and less) Cleanliness - Hallstatt (planting, sculpting, texture of fairways and greens WAY cleaner. Scawt was a bit more rugged) Fun - Scawt (close call, but Hallstatt just flat out kicks your teeth in compared to Scawt which has more "qwirk") Winner - Hallstatt over Scawt (3 - 2) ---------- Just a thought. I'm still "kinda" new here. EDIT: Thoughts Crazycanuck1985 lessthanbread mayday_golf83 In assembling the rubric, we actually consciously decided against doing something like this. Drilling down in to minutiae actually increases the likelihood of a better course losing, in my opinion. Instead, we decided to ask judges to evaluate the courses in several categories but to ultimately score them holistically. In your example above, all 5 of those things count equally, but should they? |
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Post by TannerBronson on Feb 18, 2020 22:34:05 GMT -5
This community is overwhelmingly passionate. This community is gifted and is loved by so many, including myself.
Let's remember this is a game. Where you stare at at a screen and look at something enjoyable. Just keep in mind that this is not impacting real life opportunities. This conversation is one that should be happening but someone should throw a hammer down and give what this talk needs. Believing that there should of been courses that moved on is completely understandable. Believing that Frankston Heath was completely misunderstood is completely true... but what do you do now? Believing that Hallstatt should of moved on is completely correct... What do you do now? Believing that we have a problem helping out with the judges is immensely accurate... What do you do now? All this is, is a Labyrinth with no exit, a maze with no prize.
This is a game and people forget that sometimes. Being passionate for something that you enjoy is nothing to be ashamed of and its not wrong. But what you should keep in mind is you should be happy with what you were able to control, and that was designing your course. After you hit that publish button, you have absolutely no control about what others think.
Shouldn't that be the beauty?
There is a problem with the judging that is going on right now but no blame should be on the judges themselves. Looking at the field of contestants, there should be no surprise that every 'elite' designer is in the field. This presents a problem for the ones that care.
People that care about this as much as they do should be compensated with good and true results. This was not delivered and this should be worked on in the future.
For all of you, I believe there is opportunities and perhaps more waiting for you after this smoke clears. Eric, we thought your course was unbelievable and is most likely one of the best swiss themed courses in the game and you should be proud. Jamie, I hope you realize that the judges didn't pick up on the immaculate bunkering around the greens, because that is the best we will ever see of an Australian sand belt.
Believing that there are two groups in this storm of uncertainty is making everyone oblivious to the fact that there is more than course results to a contest. There is love and passion for a game.
There are no winners. There are no losers. There are no course results.
There's just peoples opinions and raw feelings, and there are talented designers. Lets not be a pair of die and be unhappy by not rolling double sixes. Be happy with what you have and take it while you can. Because I'm sure there will be someone that rolls the dreaded snake eye and wants to reroll.
Take it or leave it. But good luck to the people that can enjoy this contest and congratulations to all 32 courses who finished before the deadline.
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279 
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Feb 18, 2020 22:38:07 GMT -5
This community is overwhelmingly passionate. This community is gifted and is loved by so many, including myself. Let's remember this is a game. Where you stare at at a screen and look at something enjoyable. Just keep in mind that this is not impacting real life opportunities. This conversation is one that should be happening but someone should throw a hammer down and give what this talk needs. Believing that there should of been courses that moved on is completely understandable. Believing that Frankston Heath was completely misunderstood is completely true... but what do you do now? Believing that Hallstatt should of moved on is completely correct... What do you do now? Believing that we have a problem helping out with the judges is immensely accurate... What do you do now? All this is, is a Labyrinth with no exit, a maze with no prize. This is a game and people forget that sometimes. Being passionate for something that you enjoy is nothing to be ashamed of and its not wrong. But what you should keep in mind is you should be happy with what you were able to control, and that was designing your course. After you hit that publish button, you have absolutely no control about what others think. Shouldn't that be the beauty? There is a problem with the judging that is going on right now but no blame should be on the judges themselves. Looking at the field of contestants, there should be no surprise that every 'elite' designer is in the field. This presents a problem for the ones that care. People that care about this as much as they do should be compensated with good and true results. This was not delivered and this should be worked on in the future. For all of you, I believe there is opportunities and perhaps more waiting for you after this smoke clears. Eric, we thought your course was unbelievable and is most likely one of the best swiss themed courses in the game and you should be proud. Jamie, I hope you realize that the judges didn't pick up on the immaculate bunkering around the greens, because that is the best we will ever see of an Australian sand belt. Believing that there are two groups in this storm of uncertainty is making everyone oblivious to the fact that there is more than course results to a contest. There is love and passion for a game. There are no winners. There are no losers. There are no course results. There's just peoples opinions and raw feelings, and there are talented designers. Lets not be a pair of die and be unhappy by not rolling double sixes. Be happy with what you have and take it while you can. Because I'm sure there will be someone that rolls the dreaded snake eye and wants to reroll. Take it or leave it. But good luck to the people that can enjoy this contest and congratulations to all 32 courses who finished before the deadline. Well said, wee lad! |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Feb 18, 2020 22:38:37 GMT -5
Why do I feel like my advancement was a bad thing??
Seriously folks.. You (all) made fantastic courses.. Many of which are already slated to be on tour...
So...didn't advance, or did advance, so what? Isn't this more about making great courses for the community ( mission accomplished) than who's course is better than the other guys?
For newer designers, PLEASE don't let all this negative banter deter you from entering into any of the design comps, as I can attest to first hand that what you gain from the experience goes a long way to making you better if you take ALL the feedback constructively, and you genuinely want to get better.
Good luck to the remaining 16 contestants, and remember 15 of us will NOT win this thing! So what !!
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Post by warhawk137 on Feb 18, 2020 22:39:38 GMT -5
Why do I feel like my advancement was a bad thing?? Hah, you and me both. |
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Post by ryanmcconnell on Feb 18, 2020 22:42:42 GMT -5
Dylan just stumbled upon some of Rochester’s finest weed.
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Post by TannerBronson on Feb 18, 2020 23:11:41 GMT -5
This community is overwhelmingly passionate. This community is gifted and is loved by so many, including myself. Let's remember this is a game. Where you stare at at a screen and look at something enjoyable. Just keep in mind that this is not impacting real life opportunities. This conversation is one that should be happening but someone should throw a hammer down and give what this talk needs. Believing that there should of been courses that moved on is completely understandable. Believing that Frankston Heath was completely misunderstood is completely true... but what do you do now? Believing that Hallstatt should of moved on is completely correct... What do you do now? Believing that we have a problem helping out with the judges is immensely accurate... What do you do now? All this is, is a Labyrinth with no exit, a maze with no prize. This is a game and people forget that sometimes. Being passionate for something that you enjoy is nothing to be ashamed of and its not wrong. But what you should keep in mind is you should be happy with what you were able to control, and that was designing your course. After you hit that publish button, you have absolutely no control about what others think. Shouldn't that be the beauty? There is a problem with the judging that is going on right now but no blame should be on the judges themselves. Looking at the field of contestants, there should be no surprise that every 'elite' designer is in the field. This presents a problem for the ones that care. People that care about this as much as they do should be compensated with good and true results. This was not delivered and this should be worked on in the future. For all of you, I believe there is opportunities and perhaps more waiting for you after this smoke clears. Eric, we thought your course was unbelievable and is most likely one of the best swiss themed courses in the game and you should be proud. Jamie, I hope you realize that the judges didn't pick up on the immaculate bunkering around the greens, because that is the best we will ever see of an Australian sand belt. Believing that there are two groups in this storm of uncertainty is making everyone oblivious to the fact that there is more than course results to a contest. There is love and passion for a game. There are no winners. There are no losers. There are no course results. There's just peoples opinions and raw feelings, and there are talented designers. Lets not be a pair of die and be unhappy by not rolling double sixes. Be happy with what you have and take it while you can. Because I'm sure there will be someone that rolls the dreaded snake eye and wants to reroll. Take it or leave it. But good luck to the people that can enjoy this contest and congratulations to all 32 courses who finished before the deadline. Sorry if this was jumbled in places. I copied and pasted through google translate because it was more than a simple sentences. Hope I got my point across. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Feb 18, 2020 23:27:13 GMT -5
I don't think naming the judges accomplishes anything except giving angry participants an object at which to direct their vitriol. It doesn't make the judges' opinions more valid. The opinion of a new judge isn't less than the opinion of "an expert," assuming all the judges are acting in good faith - and there's no reason to doubt that.
Yes, this format can lead to weird outcomes. Take my group, for example. My course finished 3rd. It defeated the group winner which was designed by one of the longest-tenured and most respected designers. My course also battled to a draw against the last-place finisher in the group. That isn't a knock on the other courses, or the judges. It's just a demonstration of the wild outcomes when you have a small judging panel for an extremely subjective task.
Part of the reason this happens is that there are a lot of very good designers. In past iterations of this contest, there tended to be more clear-cut winners and losers. Now, the gap is much smaller than it has ever been. That's a testament to the good nature of the design community and its willingness to help others improve their skills. It's also a testament to the advancement of the design tools.
I've been a contestant in a number of these. I've been a judge for a few and have administered two. It's hard work to put these together and to get results out in a reasonable time frame.
If you've entered these contests, there's a really strong chance that you've experienced some disappointment in the results. That cold dose of reality stings, and it has stung some of the most respected designers - on multiple occasions.
That's just the nature of things.
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Feb 19, 2020 9:23:53 GMT -5
This might be too on the nose...but why don't we do what TGC does with "rivalries" in the career mode and go head to head with specific criteria. Give the nod to one course over an other based on 5-7 "things" If you want to keep the ties, then use an even number of categories. Otherwise, use an odd number. Pick something fairly "tangible" when choosing categories (I'll use two courses from our Group...mine and Hallstatt) ---------- Immersion - Hallstatt (much better backstory and good lord look at the scenery in the background. Scawt was good, Hallstatt was better) Theme - Hallstatt (took much more advantage of the Swiss theme than Scawt did of the Links theme) Playability for all - Scawt (easier for players of all club types, Hallstatt is a bear for pro clubs and less) Cleanliness - Hallstatt (planting, sculpting, texture of fairways and greens WAY cleaner. Scawt was a bit more rugged) Fun - Scawt (close call, but Hallstatt just flat out kicks your teeth in compared to Scawt which has more "qwirk") Winner - Hallstatt over Scawt (3 - 2) ---------- In assembling the rubric, we actually consciously decided against doing something like this. Drilling down in to minutiae actually increases the likelihood of a better course losing, in my opinion. Instead, we decided to ask judges to evaluate the courses in several categories but to ultimately score them holistically. In your example above, all 5 of those things count equally, but should they? Only because we're comparing courses head to head, I would use the drill down method (and again, this is just a thought...) We would do the same thing when comparing golfers head to head. Other than the score on the course, who is the better overall player...Tiger or Phil? Let's go through the bag: Driver (Strokes Gained) - Tiger over Phil .896 - .341 Fairway Woods (FIR) - Phil over Tiger 82.52 - 81.77 Irons (GIR) - Tiger over Phil 69.89 - 66.89 Wedges (Scrambling) - Phil over Tiger 62.36 - 62.09 Putting (Strokes Gained) - Tiger over Phil .659 - .264 Tiger wins 3 - 2 -------- If this was just a "give the course an overall rating and the highest score wins" event, then it wouldn't make sense to use that method at all. ALL OF THIS BEING SAID: I had a blast with this event. The organizers and judges did a nice job of creating something polarizing and fun for everyone, and I'm honestly a little sad that there's a kerfluffle over something as simple as the results. Still kinda new here, but I have been lurking from afar for a while...and this community is exactly the kind of place I want to "hang out" in for years to come. Y'all are...frankly weird and bizarre human beings, and I absolutely love it. We're coming together from different corners of the TGC/GCA universe to create something that's supposed to be a way to showcase some REALLY cool ideas. If nothing else, let's PLEASE not make something as simple as a fun little design competition ruin the atmosphere of a fun community  They invented beer to cope with such frustrations... #PeaceAndLove #ComeOnRick #SplineToolsAreaGameChanger #CirclePlantingFTW #DoYouEvenRoutThough? #PlayMyCourses #Hashtag |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Feb 19, 2020 9:36:25 GMT -5
#PeaceAndLove #ComeOnRick #SplineToolsAreaGameChanger #CirclePlantingFTW #DoYouEvenRoutThough? #PlayMyCourses #Hashtag You forgot #BlamePablo |
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Feb 19, 2020 9:51:26 GMT -5
#PeaceAndLove #ComeOnRick #SplineToolsAreaGameChanger #CirclePlantingFTW #DoYouEvenRoutThough? #PlayMyCourses #Hashtag You forgot #BlamePablo Lol I've seen that before but don't know what that means... Same with this Dirty Ankle Mafia or the Goats in courses running gag. Definitely need a masterclass in the inside joke department  |
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Post by warhawk137 on Feb 19, 2020 10:00:27 GMT -5
Lol I've seen that before but don't know what that means... Same with this Dirty Ankle Mafia or the Goats in courses running gag. Definitely need a masterclass in the inside joke department Just do what I do and pretend you have any idea what these loons are going on about.  |
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Post by CiB0RG on Feb 19, 2020 10:06:31 GMT -5
Lol I've seen that before but don't know what that means... Same with this Dirty Ankle Mafia or the Goats in courses running gag. Definitely need a masterclass in the inside joke department Instead of an inside joke, it's more along the the lines of "stuff that you read about while spending way too much time on these forums".  |
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Post by Terry Grayson on Feb 19, 2020 10:08:15 GMT -5
Dirty Ankle Mafia Backstory: I live in an area in NC called Lawndale, there is a street about a mile from where I live called Dirty Ankle Road (Yes I swear this is true) When I met Eric, we starting picking around calling each others courses Dog or Goat tracks... we decided once he got a pc, to start collaborating on courses so we came up with the "Dirty Ankle Mafia" moniker and we began putting goats in different spots around each course we build The mafia consists of Eric and I to Mayo, Reeb,Toddfather,Pithy,Treewood,Ciboch,CSUgolfer, MattF and we all chat CONSTANTLY on groupme and really enjoy each others company and just have fun with the game... Just some pals having fun, with a made up group and some goat nonsense... Thats about it Terry |
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Post by ryanmcconnell on Feb 19, 2020 10:12:29 GMT -5
Tell me you stole the street sign and have it somewhere in your home.
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