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Post by lessangster on Aug 27, 2019 5:35:18 GMT -5
I wouldn’t argue about PGA and Euro being the best players but I take issue with you saying they’re they have more experience and knowledge about the game. I’ve been on these tours from TGC1 through 2 and now into 2019 so I have as much knowledge and experience of the game as they have. I’m only a CC-C but I have played on Euro and Web and I know there are many more on the lower tours that have exactly the same as me. I think people should be able to use master or pro on any of the tours, or don’t change anything at all just for the sake of change. Actually you're right. I generalized a bit too much. Sorry  I tend to agree with the rest of your post. |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 27, 2019 5:56:19 GMT -5
Actually you're right. I generalized a bit too much. Sorry I tend to agree with the rest of your post. Yes I know..but is simply right to apologize when I made a mistake..there's nothing wrong. Never. Exactly like there's nothing wrong if you show me that I made a mistake. Actually I appreciated it. |
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Post by illinoisgator on Aug 27, 2019 7:53:39 GMT -5
The thing is, if you started to remove aids from the Pro Tours, would guys stop playing because it`s getting to difficult and the enjoyment side of the Tours goes. Look at the numbers on TST compared to amount of registered players that actually play TST, it`s very low because of the difficulty. I would just leave things as they are, it`s been a great season, better for some than others true, so why try and fix something that isn't broken. I’d be done with the tours or go back to CC...I work a full time job that requires a lot of travel and have a family with kids...it’s actually quite remarkable I’ve only missed 2 weeks this season and still ranger on occasion. Take away the aids and my playing time would double probably and I don’t have that time to give. As it is I take about 5 seconds per shot and hit the speed up button after each shot to try and get my rounds in. |
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Post by nevadaballin on Aug 27, 2019 14:18:02 GMT -5
The green grid is probably the single-most effective way to produce scores more akin to real pro golf. Next would be the scout cam but we already know the problem with that. Probably the best setup IMO would be no green grid, lie grid, no shot suggestion, no putting marker, and wind arrow only. While I agree with the idea, the fact of the matter is we have TST, USE Society, and Masochist Society that together "might" have as many participants as just one pro tours. Most people simply don't want to play that way. I initially wanted green grids off too, but have come to realize the majority of people don't (or wouldn't) enjoy it or they'd a) already be doing such by participating in various SIM societies, and b) be more vocal about wanting it changed. I think a good middle ground is turning off lie grid and aiming reticule (not scout cam). I think both have the potential to provide subtle influences, especially the aiming reticule. It would be nice to have a funner in one of the societies so people could see how it plays. This makes the general point overall - how can we get the pro flights to give that "pro" experience and yet maintain participation. You are correct when you say most people do not enjoy a pure hardcore setup and it would reduce participation (by a lot). I do think removing the green grid plays to a more "pro tour" level experience. I also think applying any other restrictions would hurt any transition effort towards a no green grid set up. That means allowing all aids except the green grid. The separation of skill comes in the execution of shots to the green (correct math, tempo and straightness) and putting. I believe that tee-to-green, most of us in the same ballpark (barring tempo issues). We all use the same math to get from tee to green. There are no secrets there. I do understand that there are some people who use Boom-boom's old putting method of lining up the grid lines with the bottom of the TV and then moving the marker opposite. Personally, i feel that removes the "golf" from golf and automates a situation that should be a purely human read. That procedure completely takes away a fundamental of golf - reading the green for a putt. Not a fan Robot Golf. But it isn't against the rules (because it cannot be policed), so those who play that way are well within their rights to do so. Getting rid of the green grids would eliminate that. But a quick disclaimer - i have no idea how many people actually still use the boom-boom method. Anyways, that's my worthless 2 cents. Carry on, I'll shut up now |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Aug 27, 2019 15:11:12 GMT -5
Looking at the TST tour, which had just about everything save the follow cam turned off, still have 4 round scores in the 35-45 range, so what is the goal for the pros? To try and make the scoring more realistic? I don't think that's going to happen. Fact is, TGCT just has some outstanding players that will score with or without the aids.
I think I made 1 cut in 36 attempts on TST (and that was the wk the cut was 100, LOL), so I definitely applaud the guys scoring at the top each wk on TST, but it is nice to know that I 'could' potentially make the cut with a 2 round -3 or -4 rather than something like -20.
I guess it's a sliding scale, best will be best, no matter what you have on or off as far as the aids go... and the middle of the pack will still be middle if the pack..
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Post by nevadaballin on Aug 27, 2019 15:27:02 GMT -5
Looking at the TST tour, which had just about everything save the follow cam turned off, still have 4 round scores in the 35-45 range, so what is the goal for the pros? To try and make the scoring more realistic? I don't think that's going to happen. Fact is, TGCT just has some outstanding players that will score with or without the aids. I think I made 1 cut in 36 attempts on TST (and that was the wk the cut was 100, LOL), so I definitely applaud the guys scoring at the top each wk on TST, but it is nice to know that I 'could' potentially make the cut with a 2 round -3 or -4 rather than something like -20. I guess it's a sliding scale, best will be best, no matter what you have on or off as far as the aids go... and the middle of the pack will still be middle if the pack.. I don't think it's about scores more than it is about how the pro experience feels. Video game golf will always have unrealistic scores. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 27, 2019 16:38:32 GMT -5
I don't believe removing the wind speed number affected many people since it's easy to figure it out from the directional overlay anyway. May as well put the number back. But taking away the green grid (yes, the green grid) would really make the pro level tours more akin to "pro level" golf with Master Clubs. I don't believe removing the lie grid would make much difference. The green grid is probably the single-most effective way to produce scores more akin to real pro golf. Next would be the scout cam but we already know the problem with that. Probably the best setup IMO would be no green grid, lie grid, no shot suggestion, no putting marker, and wind arrow only. I've personally found TST quite demoralising. I finish higher, probably because there are less elite players there, but my score is further behind the winners. The elite guys, who play by working out the formula to get super close, still score the same! But I'm punished (not unfairly!) Because I don't work out the maths of everything involved... My fellow admin on our ultra sim experience society informed me that in one tournament (I assume it's similar for all) on TST, the winner's longest made putt over ALL four rounds was 7 feet! That's crazy... |
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Post by itsmb8 on Aug 27, 2019 22:08:32 GMT -5
I think its common knowledge that you'll still have insane scores from anyone on any difficulty, but my main point was really just that I think it would create more unpredictability from players and create a sense of feeling that anyone can make the cut at any time as long as you play well, whereas right now even if you do play well, you know most players will be playing the same way they always do so making a cut would be extremely difficult no matter how well you play. Thats the main point.
And the second point I guess is that the top top guys might still have insane scores, but most players will fall to a more realistic range. I mean, right now you have to go down to CC-E to find ANYONE over par, and all the way to G to find a size-able number of players over par.
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Post by cseanny on Aug 27, 2019 23:57:56 GMT -5
TST is TST for a reason, and it already caters to those who wish to partake in more challenging game play. Keep the Pro tours how they are. Actually, if anything, give exact wind back!! No exact wind is for noobs,  !!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 6:42:56 GMT -5
I think its common knowledge that you'll still have insane scores from anyone on any difficulty, but my main point was really just that I think it would create more unpredictability from players and create a sense of feeling that anyone can make the cut at any time as long as you play well, whereas right now even if you do play well, you know most players will be playing the same way they always do so making a cut would be extremely difficult no matter how well you play. Thats the main point. And the second point I guess is that the top top guys might still have insane scores, but most players will fall to a more realistic range. I mean, right now you have to go down to CC-E to find ANYONE over par, and all the way to G to find a size-able number of players over par. And those insane scores are down to the dial a distance loft box. Lofting up on full and pitch, chips and flops is the biggest aid in the game after green grids.It makes the long and short game much easier. Take that out of the equasion and you have more challenging realistic golf game and realistic scores where par doesn't feel like a bogey. Where double figure under par 18 hole scores are a rarity not the norm. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 28, 2019 6:58:15 GMT -5
I think its common knowledge that you'll still have insane scores from anyone on any difficulty, but my main point was really just that I think it would create more unpredictability from players and create a sense of feeling that anyone can make the cut at any time as long as you play well, whereas right now even if you do play well, you know most players will be playing the same way they always do so making a cut would be extremely difficult no matter how well you play. Thats the main point. And the second point I guess is that the top top guys might still have insane scores, but most players will fall to a more realistic range. I mean, right now you have to go down to CC-E to find ANYONE over par, and all the way to G to find a size-able number of players over par. And those insane scores are down to the dial a distance loft box. Lofting up on full and pitch, chips and flops is the biggest aid in the game after green grids.It makes the long and short game much easier. Take that out of the equasion and you have more challenging realistic golf game and realistic scores where par doesn't feel like a bogey. Where double figure under par 18 hole scores are a rarity not the norm. Amen USE brother!
And that is why, after 3 awful and frsutrating tournaments in a row, USE was still the tournament i was looking forward to this week. The desire to sort my game out and do better. To force myself to have to concentrate more and play less all-out attacking and pin seeking golf and wait for birdie opps.
And my short game was still very solidn this week |
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Post by jtcurrent on Aug 28, 2019 7:13:03 GMT -5
I think its common knowledge that you'll still have insane scores from anyone on any difficulty, but my main point was really just that I think it would create more unpredictability from players and create a sense of feeling that anyone can make the cut at any time as long as you play well, whereas right now even if you do play well, you know most players will be playing the same way they always do so making a cut would be extremely difficult no matter how well you play. Thats the main point. And the second point I guess is that the top top guys might still have insane scores, but most players will fall to a more realistic range. I mean, right now you have to go down to CC-E to find ANYONE over par, and all the way to G to find a size-able number of players over par. And those insane scores are down to the dial a distance loft box. Lofting up on full and pitch, chips and flops is the biggest aid in the game after green grids.It makes the long and short game much easier. Take that out of the equasion and you have more challenging realistic golf game and realistic scores where par doesn't feel like a bogey. Where double figure under par 18 hole scores are a rarity not the norm. Thing is though, in real life golf I can control chips through loft or de-loft, so how is that wrong in the game? And think of lofting on other shots as choking down on the club to take distance off, or shutting the club face a bit for more distance. I don’t think the scores are because the mechanics are wrong, the scores are because all the feedback we get prior to the shot which allows us to be very specific about where our shot is going. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Aug 28, 2019 7:30:44 GMT -5
You also can’t fully loft / deloft with any degree of accuracy, unless you’re a despicable short swinger...
Take that out of the game, and that’s a start, but it’s not in the control of TGCT admin.
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Post by lessangster on Aug 28, 2019 7:54:15 GMT -5
And those insane scores are down to the dial a distance loft box. Lofting up on full and pitch, chips and flops is the biggest aid in the game after green grids.It makes the long and short game much easier. Take that out of the equasion and you have more challenging realistic golf game and realistic scores where par doesn't feel like a bogey. Where double figure under par 18 hole scores are a rarity not the norm. Amen USE brother!
And that is why, after 3 awful and frsutrating tournaments in a row, USE was still the tournament i was looking forward to this week. The desire to sort my game out and do better. To force myself to have to concentrate more and play less all-out attacking and pin seeking golf and wait for birdie opps.
And my short game was still very solidn this week I didn’t like playing USE simply because I enjoy watching my ball fly through the air and land next to the flag so I play the next best thing TST. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 28, 2019 8:09:58 GMT -5
Amen USE brother!
And that is why, after 3 awful and frsutrating tournaments in a row, USE was still the tournament i was looking forward to this week. The desire to sort my game out and do better. To force myself to have to concentrate more and play less all-out attacking and pin seeking golf and wait for birdie opps.
And my short game was still very solidn this week I didn’t like playing USE simply because I enjoy watching my ball fly through the air and land next to the flag so I play the next best thing TST.
Each to their own old friend! (loft box makes a HUGE difference for us USE guys...) |
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