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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 28, 2019 8:14:02 GMT -5
And those insane scores are down to the dial a distance loft box. Lofting up on full and pitch, chips and flops is the biggest aid in the game after green grids.It makes the long and short game much easier. Take that out of the equasion and you have more challenging realistic golf game and realistic scores where par doesn't feel like a bogey. Where double figure under par 18 hole scores are a rarity not the norm. Thing is though, in real life golf I can control chips through loft or de-loft, so how is that wrong in the game? And think of lofting on other shots as choking down on the club to take distance off, or shutting the club face a bit for more distance. I don’t think the scores are because the mechanics are wrong, the scores are because all the feedback we get prior to the shot which allows us to be very specific about where our shot is going. it's not "wrong" as in morally wrong; none of us see it as like anything close to flicking, or anything like that.
But given it's already WAY easier to keep the ball straight AND loft box is WAY more predictable than using some loft/deloft in real life, it makes the game pretty "unrealistic" in our view...
It's pretty annoying to not be able to stop roll out on chips and flops, but it's preferable (in my opinion!) to gaining that realism; and you find ways around it as well! It's VERY satisfying consistently getting up and down without using loft box, or finding that between club distance by using a fast downswing.
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Post by lessangster on Aug 28, 2019 8:14:52 GMT -5
I didn’t like playing USE simply because I enjoy watching my ball fly through the air and land next to the flag so I play the next best thing TST.
Each to their own old friend!  (loft box makes a HUGE difference for us USE guys...) I don’t mind not using the loftbox I did play USE for a while but I got no enjoyment out of seeing my ball disappearing into the distance, I do like to use the follow came towards the end of its flight which is how I have it setup and watch the ball land, the fact that you can see which way the ball rolls after landing so giving you an advantage on the read of your putt doesn’t bother me I don’t think it’s that much of an advantage. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 28, 2019 8:15:55 GMT -5
You also can’t fully loft / deloft with any degree of accuracy, unless you’re a despicable short swinger... Take that out of the game, and that’s a start, but it’s not in the control of TGCT admin. I don't agree with that. I think the maths formula style players can be VERY precise using the loft box.
Let me repeat- a winner on tst had a maximum made putt length of 7 feet over FOUR rounds. That's bonkers...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 8:20:55 GMT -5
And those insane scores are down to the dial a distance loft box. Lofting up on full and pitch, chips and flops is the biggest aid in the game after green grids.It makes the long and short game much easier. Take that out of the equasion and you have more challenging realistic golf game and realistic scores where par doesn't feel like a bogey. Where double figure under par 18 hole scores are a rarity not the norm. Thing is though, in real life golf I can control chips through loft or de-loft, so how is that wrong in the game? And think of lofting on other shots as choking down on the club to take distance off, or shutting the club face a bit for more distance. I don’t think the scores are because the mechanics are wrong, the scores are because all the feedback we get prior to the shot which allows us to be very specific about where our shot is going. How on earth do you fully loft up a 60 degree wedge in real life. So much of the short game with loft box is hit a full shot and loft up for your distance where in real life we hit partial shots from around the green as well as adjust the club face. Yes you can choke down or hit the ball further forward in your stance to hit it higher irl. But the loft box is too precise, mechanical and feels gamey to me and nothing like the game I play irl. But there is no denying the fact it contributes to the crazy low scores |
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Post by lessangster on Aug 28, 2019 8:28:17 GMT -5
Thing is though, in real life golf I can control chips through loft or de-loft, so how is that wrong in the game? And think of lofting on other shots as choking down on the club to take distance off, or shutting the club face a bit for more distance. I don’t think the scores are because the mechanics are wrong, the scores are because all the feedback we get prior to the shot which allows us to be very specific about where our shot is going. How on earth do you fully loft up a 60 degree wedge in real life. So much of the short game with loft box is hit a full shot and loft up for your distance where in real life we hit partial shots from around the green as well as adjust the club face. Yes you can choke down or hit the ball further forward in your stance to hit it higher irl. But the loft box is too precise, mechanical and feels gamey to me and nothing like the game I play irl. But there is no denying the fact it contributes to the crazy low scores What used to happen on TGC1 if you fully lofted a wedge or SW was you got a crazy amount of backspin sometimes enough to make the ball spin back of the green but they took that out for this game now all a fully lofted wedge sw or lw does is stop on a dime if they had left that spin in from the first game it would make you think twice about fully lofting. Personally I don’t mind playing without using the loftbox, I think the backswing animation needs to be a bit slower so that it’s a little easier to know when your close to the 85% shot or the 75% shot. I think if it was more people would play that way. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Aug 28, 2019 8:34:55 GMT -5
You also can’t fully loft / deloft with any degree of accuracy, unless you’re a despicable short swinger... Take that out of the game, and that’s a start, but it’s not in the control of TGCT admin. I don't agree with that. I think the maths formula style players can be VERY precise using the loft box.
Let me repeat- a winner on tst had a maximum made putt length of 7 feet over FOUR rounds. That's bonkers...
Ok - I’ll make myself a little clearer. Unless you are exploiting the swing mechanic by short swinging, if you fully loft or deloft, the slightest deviation on your swing plane results in a large deviation on the flight of your ball on the x-axis. The distance you hit the ball is about the same, but if you end up 10 yards left of the target, in the water... you get what I’m saying. Those people playing the game properly are penalised massively for an off centre shot when loft mechanics are applied (as they should be), while short swingers can rely on a repeatable outcome, allowing them to hit it close. I GUARANTEE that your 7ft man was a short swinger. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 28, 2019 8:46:02 GMT -5
I don't agree with that. I think the maths formula style players can be VERY precise using the loft box.
Let me repeat- a winner on tst had a maximum made putt length of 7 feet over FOUR rounds. That's bonkers...
Ok - I’ll make myself a little clearer. Unless you are exploiting the swing mechanic by short swinging, if you fully loft or deloft, the slightest deviation on your swing plane results in a large deviation on the flight of your ball on the x-axis. The distance you hit the ball is about the same, but if you end up 10 yards left of the target, in the water... you get what I’m saying. Those people playing the game properly are penalised massively for an off centre shot when loft mechanics are applied (as they should be), while short swingers can rely on a repeatable outcome, allowing them to hit it close. I GUARANTEE that your 7ft man was a short swinger.
I don't do any exploits, and i'm not a formula guy either, and that scenario doesn't happen to me. I do play on PS4 though. My swing plane is usually within the blue, but it's often slightly or very jiggly, or one small jutting out bit.
Remember though, it's not just about full loft or deloft, people know (the formula guys, as i keep calling them,) how to do partial adjustments for distance as well.
Yeah the 7ft guy was defo a flicker.
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Post by fadgewacker on Aug 28, 2019 8:55:41 GMT -5
Ok - I’ll make myself a little clearer. Unless you are exploiting the swing mechanic by short swinging, if you fully loft or deloft, the slightest deviation on your swing plane results in a large deviation on the flight of your ball on the x-axis. The distance you hit the ball is about the same, but if you end up 10 yards left of the target, in the water... you get what I’m saying. Those people playing the game properly are penalised massively for an off centre shot when loft mechanics are applied (as they should be), while short swingers can rely on a repeatable outcome, allowing them to hit it close. I GUARANTEE that your 7ft man was a short swinger.
I don't do any exploits, and i'm not a formula guy either, and that scenario doesn't happen to me. I do play on PS4 though. My swing plane is usually within the blue, but it's often slightly or very jiggly, or one small jutting out bit.
Remember though, it's not just about full loft or deloft, people know (the formula guys, as i keep calling them,) how to do partial adjustments for distance as well.
Yeah the 7ft guy was defo a flicker.
I don't think I'm a formula guy - but I know roughly how for a shot is likely to travel, given an amount of loft / deloft... I also play slow backswings on shots when I'm in between clubs, sometimes to good, and sometimes tro disastrous effect. My point is, that without the ability to loft or deloft like the despicable flickers, I'm unlikely to take on those shots as often, and will regularly end up further from the hole. So the removal of flicking will "help" to bring some scoring back towards more than a couple of people on PGA having the chance to win, in a given week. Removing the loft box won't happen - I'd be happy to see it gone, if replaced with a system that gave you some manipulation of flight (just like in real life). Highly likely that neither change  |
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 28, 2019 9:01:26 GMT -5
I don't do any exploits, and i'm not a formula guy either, and that scenario doesn't happen to me. I do play on PS4 though. My swing plane is usually within the blue, but it's often slightly or very jiggly, or one small jutting out bit.
Remember though, it's not just about full loft or deloft, people know (the formula guys, as i keep calling them,) how to do partial adjustments for distance as well.
Yeah the 7ft guy was defo a flicker.
I don't think I'm a formula guy - but I know roughly how for a shot is likely to travel, given an amount of loft / deloft... I also play slow backswings on shots when I'm in between clubs, sometimes to good, and sometimes tro disastrous effect. My point is, that without the ability to loft or deloft like the despicable flickers, I'm unlikely to take on those shots as often, and will regularly end up further from the hole. So the removal of flicking will "help" to bring some scoring back towards more than a couple of people on PGA having the chance to win, in a given week. Removing the loft box won't happen - I'd be happy to see it gone, if replaced with a system that gave you some manipulation of flight (just like in real life). Highly likely that neither change
sounds like we play to a similar level then. And i hear you on the rest of what you said. Flicking is a game-wide issue; loft box is more of a "realism/taste" thing. I used to like it actually, till i realised how artificial it was, and that there was an alternative (requires a gentleman's agreement, of course...)
Just saying, it may help you or me, it DEFINITELY and MASSIVELY helps the elite guys, who are probably formula AND flickers, many of them anyway...
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Aug 28, 2019 13:33:21 GMT -5
What about a rule that makes it not possible to demote down out of your current flight group (CC only)? Meaning, if you're in CC-Pro, you cannot demote back into Am, and if in CC-Am, cannot demote back down to Z.
I only mention because if one was good enough to play on CC-B or similar, they shouldn't be allowed to purposely WD to gain the strikes repeatedly to drop back down into the CC-Am ranks...
Just a thought..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 3:54:59 GMT -5
What about a rule that makes it not possible to demote down out of your current flight group (CC only)? Meaning, if you're in CC-Pro, you cannot demote back into Am, and if in CC-Am, cannot demote back down to Z. I only mention because if one was good enough to play on CC-B or similar, they shouldn't be allowed to purposely WD to gain the strikes repeatedly to drop back down into the CC-Am ranks... Just a thought.. Instead of a ‘demotion’ mark, players should just be ‘suspended’ for one weeks’ play. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Aug 29, 2019 4:57:28 GMT -5
What about a rule that makes it not possible to demote down out of your current flight group (CC only)? Meaning, if you're in CC-Pro, you cannot demote back into Am, and if in CC-Am, cannot demote back down to Z. I only mention because if one was good enough to play on CC-B or similar, they shouldn't be allowed to purposely WD to gain the strikes repeatedly to drop back down into the CC-Am ranks... Just a thought.. That's the same for any flight, surely? Admin keep a track on who "sandbags" down and keeps tabs on performances (as time allows). Is sandbagging a major thing in the CC ranks? |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Aug 29, 2019 7:29:40 GMT -5
What about a rule that makes it not possible to demote down out of your current flight group (CC only)? Meaning, if you're in CC-Pro, you cannot demote back into Am, and if in CC-Am, cannot demote back down to Z. I only mention because if one was good enough to play on CC-B or similar, they shouldn't be allowed to purposely WD to gain the strikes repeatedly to drop back down into the CC-Am ranks... Just a thought.. That's the same for any flight, surely? Admin keep a track on who "sandbags" down and keeps tabs on performances (as time allows). Is sandbagging a major thing in the CC ranks? I wouldn't say 'major' but I have seen a few over the season that I happened to look at. Had one that was a B player and bagged down to E, then won the first wk on E. Most players play with the hopes of moving up with good play, but there are some that are more concerned about getting the trophy win.. |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Aug 29, 2019 7:39:18 GMT -5
What about a rule that makes it not possible to demote down out of your current flight group (CC only)? Meaning, if you're in CC-Pro, you cannot demote back into Am, and if in CC-Am, cannot demote back down to Z. I only mention because if one was good enough to play on CC-B or similar, they shouldn't be allowed to purposely WD to gain the strikes repeatedly to drop back down into the CC-Am ranks... Just a thought.. Instead of a ‘demotion’ mark, players should just be ‘suspended’ for one weeks’ play. Maybe, but then you may get people WD'ing to avoid the demo marks, accepting the 1 wk suspension instead.. I suppose it's not an easy fix.. Maybe only allow a 1 flight drop when a player demotes via WD, but then you'd have to put some sort of demotion block for that player on the new flight..perhaps some sort of suspension exemption type thing - where they could still play on the new flight, but would be restricted from demoting from WD's any further... would essentially force them to actually play all 4 rounds to get a demo mark, which means intentionally shooting bad scores. Not sure anyone would want to do that, but it could still happen. I guess there is no way to completely guard against it, but could be minimized.. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Aug 29, 2019 7:58:17 GMT -5
That's the same for any flight, surely? Admin keep a track on who "sandbags" down and keeps tabs on performances (as time allows). Is sandbagging a major thing in the CC ranks? I wouldn't say 'major' but I have seen a few over the season that I happened to look at. Had one that was a B player and bagged down to E, then won the first wk on E. Most players play with the hopes of moving up with good play, but there are some that are more concerned about getting the trophy win.. That’s the sort of stuff that needs highlighting to the admin really. Had a few instances on PGA -> Euro |
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(loft box makes a HUGE difference for us USE guys...)
