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Post by PMGS247 on Aug 13, 2019 15:59:24 GMT -5
Given the current game state, there isn't an ideal solution. No matter which way you slice it, we could pick, at best, two of three values: fairness, club-choice, cross-platform. No combination of two of those three is wrong. Ideally we could have all three, but TGC2019 doesn't make that possible. I agree 100% with this statement. I just don't think forcing pro clubs is the answer. If I have to give up one of those three it's got to be cross platform. Cross platform is a cool concept and all but if it doesn't work then that sucks but it doesn't work. Cross platform was always going to be the most difficult to obtain a balance, it's got to be the first one to go if it's not working. You just can't tell people who have spent years on higher difficulty that they have to go back to easy mode. How anyone who's logged any significant amount of time playing video games doesn't understand this boggles my mind. The leaderboard on tgctours.com might be more interesting/competitive in spurts, but if the game I have to log 3 hours playing to post rounds is boring my scores will never reach the website. Divide up the tours by club type, by system, or wait for the next version of the game and see if the problem has been resolved. If you take away the ability to play masters against other masters players you're going to lose a lot of the highest ranked and longest tenured players. I don't see how the situation is so desperate that it's worth conceding that.
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Post by cephyn on Aug 13, 2019 16:10:33 GMT -5
Cross platform, of course, is what makes TGCTours unique.
And let's be frank, the top tours here aren't playing on the hardest difficulty - that would be the TST folks.
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Post by Giraffe72 on Aug 13, 2019 16:23:22 GMT -5
I know a lot of xbox players on the pro tours using master's, and not one of us wants to play with pro clubs. Honestly, I don't think any of us want any changes in the Pro tours. I'd rather keep the pro tours just as they are. I would be completely against allowing Pro clubs on the pro tours. All the posts keep referring to xbox players as the motivator to make a change. We've accepted how things are and are fine with it, so you can refrain from using the xbox pro tour players as examples. (disclaimer) I know I don't speak for all xbox players on the pro tours, but I have a pretty big sample size of support in my statement.
People that want pro clubs on the pro tours for your own personal reasons, can stop hiding behind the "it's unfair for xbox" war cry. Your not speaking for a lot of us. I don't want to see rash decisions being made over inflated claims. Unballanced yes, but xbox leading the charge for change, no.
Note: I'm only speaking of the pro tours, not CC tours as they may have a completely different opinion and view on the matter.
Preach, brother!
As another struggling Pro Tour Xbox player I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. As well as titaneddie's "It is what it is," in fact I think I've used that very phrase on more than a few occasions this season.
HB ruined, actually no, 'ruined' is too strong a word, let's start again... It's HB's game that has led to some unevenness in competition, it would be a great shame if that led to these tours being dumbed down to compensate. Some tweaks to the structure could be in order but overall this place is just fine as it is. Actually in some ways it's quite fun on Xbox because unlike the rest of you we actually take quite a lot of pleasure from merely making a cut!
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Aug 13, 2019 16:30:40 GMT -5
Over the last 9-10 months i've seen way more rage from PS4 players re "the flickers" than i have seen rage from XB/PC players about console disparity.
Just sayin...
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Post by cephyn on Aug 13, 2019 16:31:51 GMT -5
Over the last 9-10 months i've seen way more rage from PS4 players re "the flickers" than i have seen rage from XB/PC players about console disparity.
Just sayin...
Because they've left the game or can't make up to the tour you're in. Just sayin...
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Post by PMGS247 on Aug 13, 2019 16:33:06 GMT -5
Cross platform, of course, is what makes TGCTours unique. And let's be frank, the top tours here aren't playing on the hardest difficulty - that would be the TST folks. TST is a different animal. That would be unaffected regardless. Suppose I’m talking swing difficulty if we want to split hairs. Making the whole of tgctours easy mode is worse than splitting up the consoles IMO. I’d still play if my only choice were PS4. Id leave if you told me I had to switch to easy mode. I’m definitely not alone in that.
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Post by cephyn on Aug 13, 2019 16:34:58 GMT -5
Cross platform, of course, is what makes TGCTours unique. And let's be frank, the top tours here aren't playing on the hardest difficulty - that would be the TST folks. TST is a different animal. That would be unaffected regardless. Suppose I’m talking swing difficulty if we want to split hairs. Making the whole of tgctours easy mode is worse than splitting up the consoles IMO. I’d still play if my only choice were PS4. Id leave if you told me I had to switch to easy mode. I’m definitely not alone in that. I mean, we're literally in a thread with a poll in it about leaving - its very clear you're not alone in that. It's also clear that there's a lot of people who would also stay, regardless. They're not alone in that either.
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 13, 2019 16:43:15 GMT -5
Over the last 9-10 months i've seen way more rage from PS4 players re "the flickers" than i have seen rage from XB/PC players about console disparity.
Just sayin...
I think that's because people believe "flicking" is cheating and involves controllable behavior whereas the platform disparity is a game state we can't do anything about.
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Post by paulus on Aug 13, 2019 18:06:48 GMT -5
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Aug 13, 2019 18:14:01 GMT -5
I'm a Xbox Pro club user in CC who tries out Master clubs once in a while and the only time I would force players to play with a certain club set is if they're in the Pro tours. I don't play on the tours to compete to the same extent as others do, if I did I would've stopped designing and concentrated more on playing with Master clubs. I'm content with playing my rounds and doing a bit of designing as long as I can play with Pro clubs on a flight in the tours.
I'm sure I'm not alone by having little desire to move up or take the Tours as seriously as others do.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Aug 13, 2019 18:16:44 GMT -5
It’s simple though, for me the tour would no longer be fun. I have no interest in using Pro clubs in this game, ever, as I find it to be very boring. The argument that it’s a fair playing field doesn’t change that, as it doesn’t override the fact that I would no longer have fun with it. No fun = I’m not going to play. I would just hope Sim doesn’t follow suit so I would still have that at least. It’s completely understandable for those who only enjoy Master clubs to leave if forced to use Pro. Same. Member since 2014 I'd be gone without thinking twice if forced to use Pro. If TGCtours, the biggest & baddest, only cross-platform society in the game didn't allow for playing on the highest swing difficulty, it would be downright sad. Assuming Phlyer is referring to the system (PS4 vs Xbox vs PC) when he refers to "platform" advantage: That's a real problem & needs to be resolved but has nothing to do with Masters/Pro discussion. If effectively putting everyone on medium swing difficulty is some weird way to bridge the gap between the systems it's a terrible bridge. The distinct advantage of PS4 is exactly what I am referring to. Maybe a PS4 only Tour is a better solution
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Post by PMGS247 on Aug 13, 2019 18:36:04 GMT -5
TST is a different animal. That would be unaffected regardless. Suppose I’m talking swing difficulty if we want to split hairs. Making the whole of tgctours easy mode is worse than splitting up the consoles IMO. I’d still play if my only choice were PS4. Id leave if you told me I had to switch to easy mode. I’m definitely not alone in that. I mean, we're literally in a thread with a poll in it about leaving - its very clear you're not alone in that. It's also clear that there's a lot of people who would also stay, regardless. They're not alone in that either. Acceptable losses then, I suppose.
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Post by lions67 on Aug 13, 2019 23:09:41 GMT -5
Over the last 9-10 months i've seen way more rage from PS4 players re "the flickers" than i have seen rage from XB/PC players about console disparity.
Just sayin...
I think that's because people believe "flicking" is cheating and involves controllable behavior whereas the platform disparity is a game state we can't do anything about. This poll is almost 50/50 With these numbers I would say leave well enough alone. Master clubs need to stay.
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Post by cseanny on Aug 14, 2019 1:32:58 GMT -5
If game parity is the unambiguous and conclusive goal, then justice, via impartiality should reign supreme. An unprejudiced rule giver would be compelled to follow a path which ushers in unparalleled uniformity, regardless of how many people were resolved to quit due to any revisions.
On the other hand, it's NOT a simple, black and white issue; not even close.
My solution regarding the Pro Tours? PS4/PC users are required to play with Masters Clubs. Xbox users may play with Masters/Pro Clubs. Reevaluate after a few months to see if balance is being achieved, or to the contrary, if a new disparity has arose.
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Post by wellsa27 on Aug 14, 2019 2:39:54 GMT -5
It would have been interesting to see the opinions of the PS4 vs Xbox. I would say most ps4 users would have said no to pro clubs.
I really don't get why people don't see the disadvantage us Xbox users have. It's not a terrible thing to try even the tour, the better players would rise up regardless.
I know PRO's are easier, but it's golf. If you can master courses and shots, you're great on either club.
EDIT: I'm a master user, and not saying PRO is the way forward but something needs to done to level up.
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