TGCT - Survey (please provide feedback by participating)

[mde8965]

So another which club debate with circular logic. Imagine that?

Look if you are on the PS4 platform (I am) then TGC19 is a good game and TGCT makes it great.

But for PC users and XB1 users especially its a shitshow. And if I were an XB1 player I’d be rallying for Pro club only tours or for a separate tour for my platform. I really commend some of you that have stuck it out with masters clubs and finish (and are WGR ranked) much lower than you would otherwise be if the game wasn’t a mess.

No good answers. People will be POd no matter what is decided.

Sometimes I wish we could go back to TGC1 with an API. That game was far from perfect. Swing was miles easier. A calculator was sometimes your best tool. But with Firm/Fast greens you really had to be a strategist to solve the puzzle to get your ball to land in a specific spot to get it to roll anywhere near close enough to make birdie putts. Or play for chips. And too the game played pretty consistently across all platforms. And there was basically only one club set (difficulty level). Of course since I’m dreaming anyway I’d make ghosts illegal (turn them off)...

But since none of what I said is plausible just like all the suggestions in this thread (separate tours for each platform, Pro only throughout, allowing any difficulty level throughout, etc.), ill just shut up and see how things play out for season 6.

Here’s a thought. Treat TGC the game as a Sony exclusive. Get a PS4 or quit your whining. Just kidding people. Well maybe mostly kidding. My vote on this question went to leaving things as is. If your that serious about the game then your serious enough to change platforms. I know for me I had both TGC 1 and 2 in all 3 platforms. Settled on PC for TGC1 and eventually mid way through TGC2 gravitated to PS4.

[csfromks]

I bought the game and jumped right onto Masters clubs. I'm they type of player who likes to play on the hardest difficulty and figure it out (except for the All-Madden cheese ball fest haha). I would be really bummed if we made all players play on Pro clubs, it just would not feel right at all and would probably lead me to not playing near as much.

I think some of this is a bigger issue at hand. I am a fan of equal opportunity, in life and this game. I am not a fan of equal outcome (something that is finding it's way more and more into our politics but that is a topic for another day). I think there are a lot of people who play this game, and all video games, that if they don't get their desired outcome, or what they think their outcome should be, they won't play or will complain about why the game is hard or broken, and want it changed to better achieve that outcome.

Bottom line, I really think you will start to lose participation if you continue to silo players into smaller, more specific tours. It sounds good in theory but not sure it will play out the way we might want. My two cents anyways.

[lessangster]

Aug 2, 2019 9:46:31 GMT -5 csfromks said:

I bought the game and jumped right onto Masters clubs. I'm they type of player who likes to play on the hardest difficulty and figure it out (except for the All-Madden cheese ball fest haha). I would be really bummed if we made all players play on Pro clubs, it just would not feel right at all and would probably lead me to not playing near as much.

I think some of this is a bigger issue at hand. I am a fan of equal opportunity, in life and this game. I am not a fan of equal outcome (something that is finding it's way more and more into our politics but that is a topic for another day). I think there are a lot of people who play this game, and all video games, that if they don't get their desired outcome, or what they think their outcome should be, they won't play or will complain about why the game is hard or broken, and want it changed to better achieve that outcome.

Bottom line, I really think you will start to lose participation if you continue to silo players into smaller, more specific tours. It sounds good in theory but not sure it will play out the way we might want. My two cents anyways.

And what system do you play on it is well documented that the game doesn’t play the same across the three formats, if your an Xbox player then good on you for sticking with it.

[lastchancehombre]

I just submitted the survey & in it made a comment towards balancing (in the CC Flights) the tournaments with regards to the use of Master & Pro Club users. I officially would like to rescind that suggestion.

After reading back a few pages here I now realize that with all the work the folks here at TGCT put in to keeping us all engaged with TGC week in & week out, I think it was Giraffe alluded to it, why jump through all the hoops to change things up here at this point when the possibility of a new iteration in the not too distant future could change things across the board.

HB is fully aware of the game play disparity between systems. And it seems the majority out there gets the feeling with HB's self imposed silent posture that they don't give a shiit what anybody is saying anymore which couldn't be farther from the truth! This was a small company committed to a product they put out & although still going through some growing pains with developing not only what 'they' want out there in the market but we all want to see & play, I still have confidence in them that we'll see a much improved iteration (again) this next time around. The old cliche, 'never going to please everybody' will no doubt still ring true.

There's no doubt in my mind that they are still paying very close attention to constructive criticism/comments just as they have all along since TGC1.

But for now with TGCT I'd vote to keeps things cruising along as are & see what shakes out down the line. Tremendous job you all do here, your time & efforts are very much appreciated!

[boffo]

Aug 2, 2019 4:51:50 GMT -5 paulus said:

Jul 30, 2019 17:12:09 GMT -5 Celtic Wolf said:

Great idea as it lets members have their say without pages of arguments.

... 

This is what makes a lively forum tho, so arguments are all good imho....

These are the times when you can't help but miss wagtunes though because you know that he would have come up with some totally insane suggestion that would make no sense and then defended it to death even after everyone told him how stupid his suggestion was.  That would go on for a good 20 or 30 pages of discussions with him quitting the forum forever at least 5 or 6 times in the process.

Ah, the good ol' days.

[Brighttail]

I think part of the problem with the survey is that while I prefer to play with Master's clubs, to make the societies more fair and level, I would be happy to go down to the Pro clubs. That isn't an option per se. I put I prefer the Master clubs but I'm 100% for making the field level and fair, which at this present time, it is not on the PGA/Euro/Web.

[Deleted]

I could not agree more with you Ron. The TGC Tours survey gave facts .
API DATA SHOWS THAT MASTER CLUBS DO NOT PLAY FAIRLY AGAINST EACH OTHER ACROSS ALL PLATFORMS . BUT PRO CLUBS DO
So , do you all want to play fair across all platforms ?
Because that is the reason TGC Tours work their bollocks off trying to combine every platform and every shot that you take, and make it interesting FOR YOU ! So anyone who only thinks about their own experience on TGC Tours needs to play more society golf and to look at the bigger picture , which is the TGC Tours community , and we are all part of that and we all paid for this shambolic game , so we all have something in common , and TGC TOURS are trying to fix something that they did not break , so let’s all play in as equal a playing field as we can , which according to API Data , is Pro clubs . I fkn hate pro clubs , but it’s defo worth TGC TOURS setting up a few comps especially for the tour where all the big knobs hang out

[Deleted]

Aug 2, 2019 20:43:38 GMT -5 @coppersky106 said:

I could not agree more with you Ron. The TGC Tours survey gave facts .
API DATA SHOWS THAT MASTER CLUBS DO NOT PLAY FAIRLY AGAINST EACH OTHER ACROSS ALL PLATFORMS . BUT PRO CLUBS DO
So , do you all want to play fair across all platforms ?
Because that is the reason TGC Tours work their bollocks off trying to combine every platform and every shot that you take, and make it interesting FOR YOU ! So anyone who only thinks about their own experience on TGC Tours needs to play more society golf and to look at the bigger picture , which is the TGC Tours community , and we are all part of that and we all paid for this shambolic game , so we all have something in common , and TGC TOURS are trying to fix something that they did not break , so let’s all play in as equal a playing field as we can , which according to API Data , is Pro clubs . I fkn hate pro clubs , but it’s defo worth TGC TOURS setting up a few comps especially for the tour where all the big knobs hang out

I don't mean this with any disrespect, but I have no interest in playing with Pro clubs.  I have played TGC2019 with Masters exclusively and don't plan on changing.  I would even be fine with being on a side tour/tier of tours that doesn't do anything but have a weekly event outside of the main tours/WGR etc. ranking system if it were to go Pro clubs only.

I "get" the wanting of fairer competition and I would be totally okay with that line of thinking, but I would still want a tour for like minded persons to myself who wish to use Masters clubs only.

[Airik3333]

Since Pro Clubs seem to be even across all three platforms and TGCTours has no plans to have tours for each platform - I am for all tours using Pro Clubs only...

Or we can all just go back to TGC1 and break out Hoodoo Hills again...

[Brighttail]

Make a tour with Master Clubs only on the same level of the PGA/Euro/Web let who ever play in it they want but you are stuck in the "special event tour" The rest play pro clubs.

I'm copying comment I made on the other thread about creating a STRIKE system for those that fail the API. You get a strike when you are pulled. Get two or three within a time frame, like 2 -3 months and you are on vacation from the tours for a minimum 2-3 weeks. To get your card back, play a full tournament without being pulled after your probation time.

I suggested 2+ for the first pull from play. That would be 2 in a 4 weeks span of time. If a person is failing one and going 4 weeks before failing again (which would be the minimum time to avoid further penalties under my system) the admin can simply check if it looks like the person is gaming the system and it not how close are they to the tours average.

The main thing here is common sense and the desire to fix something. If a player's score gets dropped every other week, what deterrent is being offered to make them WANT to fix an issue? None. Their scores don't post they get to play next week. No big deal. But now if they have to play the next 3-4 weeks, KNOWING that their scores won't be posted and they still have to pass, that may change things up.

Of course they could speed golf their rounds to ensure those 3-4 weeks the pass and then try to do shenanigans again but when caught this time they are out 4-5 weeks. In short, not a lot of fun for them and from us player's perspective it is as if they aren't playing at all and we don't have to worry about them.

For me this game is all about patterns. Each player has an API Pattern and the admin are pretty good at understanding when someone is working out side that pattern, whether it be to try to actually improve a swing so it becomes legal or if the pattern is one of deception and them trying to play the system. As we have already seen a few times this years, those players get the season long suspension.

In short my way gives everyone a 2 times and 'oops' or 2 times that they played well above their level with a great swing. The players that are playing fair, I would say hardly any of them have 2 pulled APIs over the season. Those aren't the people we are looking at. This is to get the people who refuse to change anything and 'play the odds' instead of reworking their swing like many of us have had to do.

[ezzinomilonga]

I like the idea to punish cheaters. A lot. Is one of the two main problems to face to have a tour in fact perfect. But how much work it would be for the admins? Is actually possible to implement this thing?

[Deleted]

I am curious what the (arguably) best XB1 player DoubtfulObelisk thinks of a Pro clubs only TGCT. Granted this would likely be just a TGC2019 thing because of platform imbalance (hopefully!), but what does an elite player that is affected by the platform imbalance think of this?

[DoubtfulObelisk]

Aug 3, 2019 0:48:56 GMT -5 @swaeromotion said:

I am curious what the (arguably) best XB1 player DoubtfulObelisk thinks of a Pro clubs only TGCT. Granted this would likely be just a TGC2019 thing because of platform imbalance (hopefully!), but what does an elite player that is affected by the platform imbalance think of this?

I can't really give a good answer to that because I haven't played Pro clubs at all, so I'm not sure what the gameplay is like while using them. On the surface, though, I think it's a decent stopgap measure to re-balance the three platforms, like we had the first four seasons of TGCT play. I can't say for sure if that would bring me back to the tours. I'm kind of enjoying my current relationship with this game, designing and playing alt shot/casual rounds. I do intend to play the CC-Pro event next week, as it's on my course -- perhaps that will rekindle my competitive fire.

[lions67]

Sure hope we don’t go to pro clubs only.
The entire season would have an asterix beside every winner. Everyone would know that the results really aren’t the best at all.
This goes against the grain of competition. It really does.
I get the imbalance thing, but why change it now? Maybe just give an extra promo spot to the xb and pc crowd instead?
I think that would be more fair than forcing a weaker club set for all.
At least that’s my opinion on the matter.

[Deleted]

If there are selfish people who have no interest in pro clubs, then I already suggested that you play more society golf where you can play many many masters events , but as far as TGC TOURS is concerned, if people want a fair shot at playing against all platforms , then it has to be with pro clubs. This is FACT , from TGC TOURS . Opinions are like arseholes , everybody has one , but some arseholes are bigger than others , especially patronizing argumentative ones , who have nothing better to do than create drama . Master clubs should only be used for non competitive golf because there is no competition when one platform has an overwhelming advantage against another . Anyone who uses the phrase I , or Me , is not getting the point of this . It’s not all about YOU princess , it’s about 4000 players