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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 14:37:43 GMT -5
Not sure why you don't find partial swings unrealistic Leon. The chipping is about feel for distance it's about how far you swing back the club as is a pitch Shot. I do find partial shot pitches the toughest to judge distances on this game. The distance manipulation through a slow backswing is a total nonsense and is not golf. The whole idea of not having a loft box is it is unrealistic as much as slow backswing for less distance is unrealistic. The short game plays perfectly fine with partial shots. As for sand, maybe you could chip or putt out of hard compacted sand irl. The soft fine sand we play on top courses you wouldn't have a hope of chipping out of with a LW or SW the clean contact is such a fine line with a lofted club. I have never seen a pro on TV ever chip out of a greenside bunker once. I played my societies last tournament of the year today. It was extremely wet and I found alot of bunkers today with wet compacted sound. My sand game was spot on, still needed to open up that SW face and really commit to the shot. The only successful way I can see chipping out of a bunker is with a chipper. I find it unrealistic because it's FAR harder to achieve than in real life, but also, more conclusively, in real life you can do a full backswing but put less power in, or do a partial but really punch it through and get more power. I TOTALLY get your view on it, and I've come to think your approach is probably "more" realistic, but overall I don't think the game nails it on any of the methods... No it is not far harder to achieve than real life if you practise it. Fed up of the unconventional unrealistic way on this game. If anyone took the time on the short game they will find just like the putting (which is the best part of this game by a country mile) that partial shots in the short game is the most realistic part of the game. Not sure why we even bother playing an ULTRA SIM when we don't play it realistically. Tempo is rhythm of the swing BTW, your back swing speed doesn't change that's the whole point it's a ratio of backswing to downswing timings a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio. Anything under a full shot is a partial shot so your backswing is a partial backswing. This rubbish of holding your Full backswing to reduce distance is not ULTRA Sim and my time is done if that's where we are going here because we are back to where Larry was taking us away from
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 14:51:54 GMT -5
And when is there a full backswing in a chip or pitch, the more you pull your controller back the less the ball will travel in this game. So the avatar stops his swing because you're overswinging. Hold it at the top when you overswing for less power, it's laughable and the loft box is more realistic than that crap.
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Post by LKeet6 on Oct 15, 2019 15:24:58 GMT -5
Ok then.
Seems maybe we need to have a group discussion and decision on this then. We already know from comments that a lot use tempo as their power control, so we need to see whether everyone is prepared to give up on that.
My feeling is that the game/swing mechanics are not good/realistic enough to demand playing a certain way, and that tempo is not even close to being the same in terms of manipulation and fine tuning on distance and stopping the ball after landing.
I may not understand the game well enough, but I always thought it was speed of downswing that controlled power.
But anyway, I'm happy to go with the majority on this; I just want people to feel happy with the rules and enjoy their rounds.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 15:31:28 GMT -5
All I wanted to do is carry on this society when Larry left and I couldn't without Lkeet and Xbox Al who have both been invaluable. But I think USE is absolutely about playing this game in the most realistic way, it's not just about taking away the loft box if we play the short game unrealistically with tempo manipulation. Chipping out of green side bunkers might be the norm (though I doubt it) for some in real life but it's not in a Sim Mode. This game can be played realistically and believe me SO ENJOYABALY with partial shots and not chipping out of greenside bunkers. If this society loses it's soul I'm afraid it will lose me also, you can't have half an UTRA SIM.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 15:34:24 GMT -5
Ok then. Seems maybe we need to have a group discussion and decision on this then. We already know from comments that a lot use tempo as their power control, so we need to see whether everyone is prepared to give up on that. My feeling is that the game/swing mechanics are not good/realistic enough to demand playing a certain way, and that tempo is not even close to being the same in terms of manipulation and fine tuning on distance and stopping the ball after landing. I may not understand the game well enough, but I always thought it was speed of downswing that controlled power. But anyway, I'm happy to go with the majority on this; I just want people to feel happy with the rules and enjoy their rounds. Speed of downswing controls power?, that speed of downswing is produced by your backswing distance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 15:39:58 GMT -5
Ok then. Seems maybe we need to have a group discussion and decision on this then. We already know from comments that a lot use tempo as their power control, so we need to see whether everyone is prepared to give up on that. My feeling is that the game/swing mechanics are not good/realistic enough to demand playing a certain way, and that tempo is not even close to being the same in terms of manipulation and fine tuning on distance and stopping the ball after landing. I may not understand the game well enough, but I always thought it was speed of downswing that controlled power. But anyway, I'm happy to go with the majority on this; I just want people to feel happy with the rules and enjoy their rounds. The game plays perfectly fine through partial swings on the short game and I have been saying this for a long time. NO offence Leon but how long have you practised partial swings?. USE is the ONLY WAY I play this game for close to a year, it is the closest way to real life and the only reason I play the game. How can it be sim if you don't play it remotely close to sim?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 15:42:56 GMT -5
Ok then. Seems maybe we need to have a group discussion and decision on this then. We already know from comments that a lot use tempo as their power control, so we need to see whether everyone is prepared to give up on that. My feeling is that the game/swing mechanics are not good/realistic enough to demand playing a certain way, and that tempo is not even close to being the same in terms of manipulation and fine tuning on distance and stopping the ball after landing. I may not understand the game well enough, but I always thought it was speed of downswing that controlled power. But anyway, I'm happy to go with the majority on this; I just want people to feel happy with the rules and enjoy their rounds. Speed of downswing is generated by backswing length, the further your backswing the further you hit it because you generate more clubhead speed on impact.
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Post by JosiaDB on Oct 15, 2019 15:50:35 GMT -5
I'm confused.
I'm perfectly fine with playing the ultra sim rules, but I'm not sure whats allowed and whats not, from all these conversations.
half of it, I just don't understand the wording.
Here is what I have been doing, and not doing-
Regarding chip shots out of bunkers, I have been doing that since I started, if I'm within 13 or so yds, and not below the green. Sometimes I'm on a greenside bunker, and when I'm that close, I quite simply cannot hit a flop shot and not have it go 25-27 yrds in that situation. Now when I chip and I'm within 9 yrds, on the grass, I do a sort of half swing to get less power. I've been figuring that out, because I never just pull back and hold the swing at the top. Even though I know that gives you less distance, it just don't feel right so I never do it. I just do it the same way you get distance when putting. So when I'm in a bunker, any bunker, is it not ok to use a chip shot? Am I supposed to be using the flop shot, and the same concept as I am with the chips and putts?
Again, the only reason I haven't been doing that, is because I get so frustrated when I'm 13 yds away, and that 24 yd flop shot goes 27 yds, and now I'm across the green in the other bunker or thereabouts.
But I can learn, again, I'm not trying to break any rules, its just I never knew that was NOT allowed. And not being a golfer, it didn't occur to me about realism, I just figured people pulled out the chipper club when the ball was near the green, whether it was in sand or not, as long as it wasn't embedded.
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, like I said, its kinda confusing to me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 15:54:11 GMT -5
There really is only two ways to control distance - adjusting backswing length or adjust the effort that you hit the ball. Also - you need to hit the ball clean to have control on distance - any amount of duff or blade will lead to disaster - as many amateur golfers are fully aware. Also grass between clubface and ball will make things harder to control - you get less spin, and the ball can behave in a random matter because of the grass or dirt.
So, for consistency, all good golf players try to eliminate factors to control distance. That is why all good players hit the ball aggressive with the same effort - this goes for putting, chipping, etc etc. And they then control the distance with backswing length. Mixing different effort in the equations is making it all harder - and you get less consistency as a result. When you hit aggressive, you have a better ball contact and you are better at hitting the ball clean. When you see amateurs ease into the ball - you will see those duffs and blades more often - which is doomed for disaster.
The only problem I have with partials in the game are with chips - and I am sure I can work that out - so I am fully on side with Hammers on this one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 16:03:28 GMT -5
I'm confused.
I'm perfectly fine with playing the ultra sim rules, but I'm not sure whats allowed and whats not, from all these conversations.
half of it, I just don't understand the wording.
Here is what I have been doing, and not doing-
Regarding chip shots out of bunkers, I have been doing that since I started, if I'm within 13 or so yds, and not below the green. Sometimes I'm on a greenside bunker, and when I'm that close, I quite simply cannot hit a flop shot and not have it go 25-27 yrds in that situation. Now when I chip and I'm within 9 yrds, on the grass, I do a sort of half swing to get less power. I've been figuring that out, because I never just pull back and hold the swing at the top. Even though I know that gives you less distance, it just don't feel right so I never do it. I just do it the same way you get distance when putting. So when I'm in a bunker, any bunker, is it not ok to use a chip shot? Am I supposed to be using the flop shot, and the same concept as I am with the chips and putts?
Again, the only reason I haven't been doing that, is because I get so frustrated when I'm 13 yds away, and that 24 yd flop shot goes 27 yds, and now I'm across the green in the other bunker or thereabouts.
But I can learn, again, I'm not trying to break any rules, its just I never knew that was NOT allowed. And not being a golfer, it didn't occur to me about realism, I just figured people pulled out the chipper club when the ball was near the green, whether it was in sand or not, as long as it wasn't embedded.
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, like I said, its kinda confusing to me.
No you have been playing the game realistically, the option to chip out of the bunker shouldn't be there or why have bunkers?. I have hit 8 yard bunker shots with a flop shot close so it is possible not having to use chip on short bunker shots, I have also hit extremely short partial chips close from 6 yards or extreme downhill chips that I knew I had to land in the rough. It's called feel for distance and it takes practise, the whole sort game of golf is all about that. How is overswinging a chip remotely close to distance control. You guys that do it that way tell me? Losing my enthusiasm for this game big time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 16:03:40 GMT -5
Josia: many amateur golfers are very bad with bunker play. My feeling is that it is because they don't practice it. So, even though the chip out of bunker is very hard to do in real life (picking the ball clean from the sand is not easy on small shots, and you are most likely hitting the sand behind the ball, and the ball will not go out of the sand but perhaps a few yards) - they may do it, because they are completely out of confidence with explosive shots and chip shots is something you can't avoid to do on a course. As I said - the results are never good, and they have no control on what they are doing.
This game is simulating pro golf - and all pros use explosive shots out of greenside bunkers, because it is an easy shot that they have good control with. Ofcourse, burried lie is difficult, but normal lie in a bunker is easy for the pros.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 16:09:57 GMT -5
Josia: many amateur golfers are very bad with bunker play. My feeling is that it is because they don't practice it. So, even though the chip out of bunker is very hard to do in real life (picking the ball clean from the sand is not easy on small shots, and you are most likely hitting the sand behind the ball, and the ball will not go out of the sand but perhaps a few yards) - they may do it, because they are completely out of confidence with explosive shots and chip shots is something you can't avoid to do on a course. As I said - the results are never good, and they have no control on what they are doing. This game is simulating pro golf - and all pros use explosive shots out of greenside bunkers, because it is an easy shot that they have good control with. Ofcourse, burried lie is difficult, but normal lie in a bunker is easy for the pros. I played a tournament in my society earlier in the year, lovely hole but I hit slightly more right to left than I wanted and landed in the left side bunker, totally buried. Could not get the ball out of the bunker, but managed to get out and hole a 10 foot putt for bogie. Buried lies are tough
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 16:33:36 GMT -5
I decided to play out my final 2 rounds. Seemed every time I got a birdie I would give it back but managed to finish R3 at (-1).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 16:36:41 GMT -5
Round 4 was more of the same, but I managed a couple more birdies than bogeys to finish R4 at (-2). I finished the tournament at (-3). I had to really fight to keep it close to Even par the majority of the tournament.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 16:54:26 GMT -5
Josia: many amateur golfers are very bad with bunker play. My feeling is that it is because they don't practice it. So, even though the chip out of bunker is very hard to do in real life (picking the ball clean from the sand is not easy on small shots, and you are most likely hitting the sand behind the ball, and the ball will not go out of the sand but perhaps a few yards) - they may do it, because they are completely out of confidence with explosive shots and chip shots is something you can't avoid to do on a course. As I said - the results are never good, and they have no control on what they are doing. This game is simulating pro golf - and all pros use explosive shots out of greenside bunkers, because it is an easy shot that they have good control with. Ofcourse, burried lie is difficult, but normal lie in a bunker is easy for the pros. I am guilty of chipping out of bunkers. To be honest I never thought about it. It has always depended on the bunker. If it was deep I would flop out and if it was shallow I would chip it out. I have chipped out of bunkers IRL on some of the cheaper courses we play. There is literally very little sand in the bunkers and packed down. There is no way to get a sand wedge underneath the ball to blast it out. With some of the nicer courses we play, there is no way to chip the ball out of the sand. You have to hit an explosion shot to get it out. If I have a buried lie, there are times when I have to blast it out to the side of the bunker. I wouldn't be able to get it out trying to go over the embankment. After reading the previous posts, going forward I will flop all bunker shots in the game. It will take more practice but it can be done. It makes sense if we are emulating the PGA Tour. We could update the front page of the thread with the rules we should all be playing by. We have a great honest group of players here and I'm sure everyone would comply.
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