The Swingy Swing that Swings...

[lessthanbread]

Can someone explain once and for all how the swing works in this game because I'm lost. Last night I thought to myself, okay, I'm going to go for a fast downswing... hit a slow downswing. The next shot I thought to myself, okay, now I'm going to go for a slow downswing.... hit a fast downswing.

I hear it's something about the transition from moving the stick back to forward but still not clear on exactly how it calculates/reads your stick in relation to the swing meter.

[Riotous]

Not an expert but having played around with it I’ve drawn the conclusion that’s its speed + transition speed from backswing to swing. For example, If you do a super quick back swing and then pause at the top of the back swing then you’ll still get a slow/very slow

[pc17]

The tempo swing in this game was never implemented with the purpose of allowing the user to master it. Yes!.... you can learn to reduce the amount of issues you receive. You can even learn to force a fast/slow swing if you so desire. But the real reason the tempo swing was introduced, is to force errors on you when it can as a way of keeping the scores low and realistic. Obviously for some, this hasn't worked, but for most of us it has. Some people may scoff at this, but it's happened to me so many times that I can almost predict it.
Let's take last weeks Web.com Tour. On my 4th round, having made a pretty good start, I was lining my 2nd shot down the fairway on a Par 5 (could not reach the green). As I zoomed down this fairway I noticed to my right a small pond of water, and I thought this is a typical opportunity for the game to force a slow swing on me. It's about the right distance away and it's far enough to the right. I hit 4 practice swings, each receiving a perfect swing. Hit my shot for real and received a very slow swing, ball off to the right straight into this pond, the only very slow swing I received in 4 rounds.

[lessthanbread]

Jul 18, 2019 5:41:04 GMT -5 pc17 said:

The tempo swing in this game was never implemented with the purpose of allowing the user to master it. Yes!.... you can learn to reduce the amount of issues you receive. You can even learn to force a fast/slow swing if you so desire. But the real reason the tempo swing was introduced, is to force errors on you when it can as a way of keeping the scores low and realistic. Obviously for some, this hasn't worked, but for most of us it has. Some people may scoff at this, but it's happened to me so many times that I can almost predict it.
Let's take last weeks Web.com Tour. On my 4th round, having made a pretty good start, I was lining my 2nd shot down the fairway on a Par 5 (could not reach the green). As I zoomed down this fairway I noticed to my right a small pond of water, and I thought this is a typical opportunity for the game to force a slow swing on me. It's about the right distance away and it's far enough to the right. I hit 4 practice swings, each receiving a perfect swing. Hit my shot for real and received a very slow swing, ball off to the right straight into this pond, the only very slow swing I received in 4 rounds.

I totally agree. I’ve noticed instances like that too where I just happen to get a very fast/slow into water. It’s like a magnet. I do think the master clubs are enjoyably difficult for the most part. I’m not bashing the swing completely. But like you said, if something like that is built in that makes the game unfair, not cool in my opinion

[JosiaDB]

wow if it ever came out that something like that was truly built into the game, that'd be the end of HB for me.    

I think there are a ton of things that have to do with that tempo.     Like you, bread, I will 'think' I have hit fast, and it comes out as very slow, and vice versa.

I have found that being smooth seems to have something to do with it.   When I do get into a cycle where I'm really feeling it,  and getting perfect/perfect every time,  the one thing I have started noticing is that I'm playing smoother.    My swing is going up, pausing just a hair, then coming back down at exactly the same speed I went up.     I think that seems to have a LOT to do with it, making that time from start to finish totally smooth and the same,  and different clubs have different speeds.

But then there are those times when it just does not make any sense at all.   No matter what you do, the tempos are simply not consistent at all.      I think internet lag and bandwidth have a lot to do with that part.  There is no other way to explain why it affects some people greatly, and others not at all.   I can even predict the days of the week and times of day, that it is worse than others.

[pc17]

Jul 18, 2019 9:48:31 GMT -5 JosiaDB said:

wow if it ever came out that something like that was truly built into the game, that'd be the end of HB for me.    

I think there are a ton of things that have to do with that tempo.     Like you, bread, I will 'think' I have hit fast, and it comes out as very slow, and vice versa.

I have found that being smooth seems to have something to do with it.   When I do get into a cycle where I'm really feeling it,  and getting perfect/perfect every time,  the one thing I have started noticing is that I'm playing smoother.    My swing is going up, pausing just a hair, then coming back down at exactly the same speed I went up.     I think that seems to have a LOT to do with it, making that time from start to finish totally smooth and the same,  and different clubs have different speeds.

But then there are those times when it just does not make any sense at all.   No matter what you do, the tempos are simply not consistent at all.      I think internet lag and bandwidth have a lot to do with that part.  There is no other way to explain why it affects some people greatly, and others not at all.   I can even predict the days of the week and times of day, that it is worse than others.

I approached HB directly regarding the true purpose of the tempo swing, and they refused to comment. I'm sure you're right that other factors, like poor internet connection can effect the tempo. But for me, it just seems very strange that the vast majority of the time when I'm hit with a tempo issue, my ball always seems to land in the worst possible place, where I almost always end up dropping shots.
I think HB's view, is that when most people receive a tempo issue they'll just blame themselves for doing something wrong. 

[bassman70]

I know it was a while ago and I may be wrong is saying so, but I feel we never had these issues is TGC1...remember the good ol' days when you just pulled the stick back and moved it forward and that was it...the game was just based on your skill level and course management...ahhhh the simple days

BUT...then we had people complain..."the game's too easy", "look at these scores", "we need to make it harder"...sooo

HB made the game artificially harder added tempo, which is very random at times and we all know it, took away back spin, which is sooo unrealistic, flop shots roll out several yards, which is a shame. BUT...guess what...we still have people complaining about the low scores, and the same people who wanted all of this "let's make it harder stuff" can barely play the game...SMH...can I also mention the players playing true Sim are shooting very low scores also...so, there is no fixing that because it's a video game.

personally, I would love to see the simple straight forward swing back and let us just use course management and our skills like we used to. Let's improve the PGA season and make great use of the license. Let's work on ball physics, let's have trophy presentations, and money list leaders for the PGA season, and real PGA pros on the leader boards.

Sorry, this turned into something else...just hoping people realize making the game artificially harder ruins the experience for so many players.

[junuh5]

   ^{Alright guys, I'm going to give my opinion. First of all, in TGC 1 there was no tempo. We definetley don't want to return to this. Second, You want the game to be difficult. I'm always scared when they are going to release a new game and they want to take away the simulation aspects of the game. I've played and watched Rory Mcallroy golf on ps4 and hope and pray TGC doesn't go that way. Now I play 3 to 4 hours a day and have qualified for the European Tour on TGC Tours. Although my Q school was great, my first 2 weeks on the tour were much below my capabilities. I watch all the guys on Youtube and Twitch, and love them all. However, I hear a lot of complaining that the game made me do a "fast" or "very fast" or "slow" or whatever. Sorry guys, the game doesn't do that. Just like when the "phantom putts" were pulling people putts for no reason. If you missed your putt it was because you didn't read the green and execute your shot properly.}

       ^{I will give my 2 tips for Master clubs. 1. When swinging always stare at the top of the players shoulders so you can see for the pause at the top of the back swing. If you are not getting a pause, you cannot find out what you are doing to achieve a perfect/perfect. 2. I always have my back swing a touch slower than my down swing. Like if you rated the speed on a scale of 1 to 10. 1 being the slowest and 10 being the fastest, My back swing is usually a 4 and my down swing a 6. Got it! Now, does this mean that someone who reads this will get perfect/perfect every time. Certainly Not, and I certainly don't get perfect/perfect every time. But, when I make a mistake I KNOW what I am doing Wrong! I once play 4 rounds in a row and literally only had 1 "fast". But I could start up the game and get "fast" or "slows" at any time. I usually need a round to warm up. If there was one thing about the game that I might complain about it would be the WIND. Like sometimes a 7 mph wind doesn't move my ball at all and other times a 7 mph wind moves it a lot. However, I soon discovered that 9 times out of 10, it was either the ball lie or my slight crooked swing that was to blame.}     

[JosiaDB]

Jul 19, 2019 11:21:23 GMT -5 junuh5 said:

   ^{Alright guys, I'm going to give my opinion. First of all, in TGC 1 there was no tempo. We definetley don't want to return to this. Second, You want the game to be difficult. I'm always scared when they are going to release a new game and they want to take away the simulation aspects of the game. I've played and watched Rory Mcallroy golf on ps4 and hope and pray TGC doesn't go that way. Now I play 3 to 4 hours a day and have qualified for the European Tour on TGC Tours. Although my Q school was great, my first 2 weeks on the tour were much below my capabilities. I watch all the guys on Youtube and Twitch, and love them all. However, I hear a lot of complaining that the game made me do a "fast" or "very fast" or "slow" or whatever. Sorry guys, the game doesn't do that. Just like when the "phantom putts" were pulling people putts for no reason. If you missed your putt it was because you didn't read the green and execute your shot properly.}

       ^{I will give my 2 tips for Master clubs. 1. When swinging always stare at the top of the players shoulders so you can see for the pause at the top of the back swing. If you are not getting a pause, you cannot find out what you are doing to achieve a perfect/perfect. 2. I always have my back swing a touch slower than my down swing. Like if you rated the speed on a scale of 1 to 10. 1 being the slowest and 10 being the fastest, My back swing is usually a 4 and my down swing a 6. Got it! Now, does this mean that someone who reads this will get perfect/perfect every time. Certainly Not, and I certainly don't get perfect/perfect every time. But, when I make a mistake I KNOW what I am doing Wrong! I once play 4 rounds in a row and literally only had 1 "fast". But I could start up the game and get "fast" or "slows" at any time. I usually need a round to warm up. If there was one thing about the game that I might complain about it would be the WIND. Like sometimes a 7 mph wind doesn't move my ball at all and other times a 7 mph wind moves it a lot. However, I soon discovered that 9 times out of 10, it was either the ball lie or my slight crooked swing that was to blame.}     

Sorry but I respectfully disagree with you.

You can say all that, and I understand exactly what you are saying, because I also can tell you when I make a mistake on my tempo, and I KNOW that I have made a mistake.  I can tell you a split second before the ball leaves, exactly if my swing was fast, slow, or whatever.   I also know exactly how the lie affects it and how the wind affects.   I can see that, and the ball reacts accordingly, its not just the wind, it depends on the lie and your swing also.

But... regarding tempo by itself.   Ball lie, wind direction, and straightness of the swing does not affect whether the game gives you a fast, slow, or very something.  That is solely on the time from which you start your backswing, to the time you stop your swing motion, with your controller or your mouse.   I KNOW when that is different, I CAN FEEL IT.

Today, I'm playing and I am hitting the ball EXACTLY THE SAME.    Now mind you, I'm not talking about ball lie, wind, anything else, I'm ONLY talking about  the tempo as opposed to the time your thumb starts and stops on the controller and that pause at the top.   I'm hitting perfect/perfects, and all the sudden,  THE SAME MOTION, WITH THE SAME TIMING, AND THE SAME PAUSE,  starts hitting  very slow.  

It does this for a couple holes, then it goes to very fast, then all of the sudden it goes back to just like normal.    Explain that to me, please.   

I will readily admit each mistake I make, because I can feel it.   I know when I'VE hit the ball very slow because I can feel my thumb slow down, pause a split second too long, or whatnot.   I CAN FEEL THAT, and I admit it, and that does happen.     But sometimes its not me, its due to internet/bandwidth lag.   fps.  CPU speed.  any or all of that, I do not know, but it IS external.  

See posts like this frustrate me, because people that have no problems with this, seem to refuse to believe that there are those of us out there that KNOW how to play this game, and KNOW when we make a mistake, and get hit with this.  But for whatever reason, some seem to believe that the game is perfect, and we don't actually know what we are doing, regardless of the fact that we do.

Edit:  oh and btw, I've never asked for this game to be any more difficult.  LOL

[pc17]

Jul 19, 2019 8:48:27 GMT -5 bassman70 said:

I know it was a while ago and I may be wrong is saying so, but I feel we never had these issues is TGC1...remember the good ol' days when you just pulled the stick back and moved it forward and that was it...the game was just based on your skill level and course management...ahhhh the simple days

BUT...then we had people complain..."the game's too easy", "look at these scores", "we need to make it harder"...sooo

HB made the game artificially harder added tempo, which is very random at times and we all know it, took away back spin, which is sooo unrealistic, flop shots roll out several yards, which is a shame. BUT...guess what...we still have people complaining about the low scores, and the same people who wanted all of this "let's make it harder stuff" can barely play the game...SMH...can I also mention the players playing true Sim are shooting very low scores also...so, there is no fixing that because it's a video game.

personally, I would love to see the simple straight forward swing back and let us just use course management and our skills like we used to. Let's improve the PGA season and make great use of the license. Let's work on ball physics, let's have trophy presentations, and money list leaders for the PGA season, and real PGA pros on the leader boards.

Sorry, this turned into something else...just hoping people realize making the game artificially harder ruins the experience for so many players.

Spot-on. As far as gameplay were concerned, TGC1 was by far a better and fairer game to play. Same clubs, same balls, same swing. All they had to do was make the swing plane more sensitive so it was harder to hit straight shots, that in itself would have kept the scores a little lower, but at the same time, made the swing more realistic. I think most people can accept hitting poor shots, as long as they can see what they've done wrong, but with this ridiculous tempo, I can hit a very fast swing, then hit a very slow swing, and have absolutely no idea what I did different.

[Deleted]

Turn off the feedback and play a practice round. You might never turn it back on.

[lessthanbread]

Jul 21, 2019 17:42:59 GMT -5 FRSTDWN said:

Turn off the feedback and play a practice round. You might never turn it back on.

I’ve tried that for a few holes before. Feels like it works pretty well. I’ll give it a try for a full round

[Deleted]

What it does for me is make the swing more about muscle memory and not dependent on the feedback. So what happens is you learn more about your swing with it off then on. Makes the game more immersive imop and can help you get better. I really think people get way to fixated on the feedback and forget about feel. Of course you have to played the game a little while before you turn it off for obvious reasons.

I do turn it on when at the range if I'm having issues. Good tip for the range is switch to the practice swing. You can take a lot more swings that way . Of course if you are working on moving the ball or distance you need to hit balls.

I actually have the distance off as well on the feedback. Really gets immersive then.

Hope it helps .

[cliffs]

For those of you that think HB somehow installed some scripting/coding that makes the swing go off perfect perfect, please explain to me when this happens. What I mean is, if it is scripted then there is a set time that this happens, so is it every 30 swings, 100 perhaps, maybe every.....

Does not make sense for the game to have a random swing as there are many computers using the software and it would be happening regularly for every one.

I have had the very slow swing pop up but it is, maybe, every 5 games I play and it is usually just one swing.

To prove my point, play a round by yourself and use guest players. If one of your players has a bad swing then according to you guys, the other guest players will also have the bad swing at the same time. If not, then it is you the player and your controller and not some hidden mystery coding by HB.

[cephyn]

Humans are notoriously imperfect.