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Post by titaneddie on Jul 2, 2019 19:58:09 GMT -5
Mde, not to disrespect you but i actually think having to stand for a song at a CORPORATE EVENT doesn't prove to me anyones level "patriotism".
Even though they try to add some level of nationalism to it, it really is just a sporting event put on to make money by various interests.
Now if it was the military putting on this event/show that was attended voluntarily to raise awareness and support for what they do, i totally agree you should abide by whatever tradition they want to uphold.
I can even see the reasoning behind events like world cups playing anthems.
But to me standing at some event that people profit from just feels like a form a propaganda. If people want to stand and enjoy it find be me. If people want to grab two beers and hit the washroom while its happening, fine by me as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 20:06:23 GMT -5
He made millions . End of story.
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Post by mde8965 on Jul 2, 2019 20:11:16 GMT -5
Sorry but for me, anything Kaepernick does holds no weight for me after the whole sit down during the national anthem thing that pretty much cost him a career in football. Not saying I agree with slavery or none like that, so don't go there. But Kaepernick is a little biatch that's always looking for an axe to grind about something. If he wanted to protest treatment of various minorities that's one thing...but sitting for the national anthem is another. Completely disrespectful to the Country that was allowing the little twit to earn millions to play football. Try that kind of protest in Russia, China or ay of those countries and if the police or government don't end you then your fellow countrymen will. Specifically those that fought for that country's beliefs in a war. This has nothing to do with the issue, and actually weakens your argument. The Betsy Ross flag stands for a lot more than slavery. That was just one of the (maybe the most) unfortunate things in existence at that time. Or should we wipe out American History (like it never happened) to anything before the mid 1800's when slavery was abolished? This is an actual argument and I respect it. No one is arguing to wipe out history, though. It's pointing out to Nike that putting a Betsy Ross flag on a pair of shoes is not a smart move for their business. The majority of their sponsored athletes, along with a large portion of their consumer base, are African-American. Nike can do plenty well with red white and blue shoes, or even shoes with the current flag on it, without invoking a slavery-era flag, which also happens to be one that plenty of white nationalist groups are using for their own symbolism. That flag can exist in history and in discussions without Nike using it to make money. Weakens my argument? I have no argument. I just was stating I have zero respect for Kaepernick and I stated my reasons. The second paragraph was my opinion on why I think the Betsy Ross flag isn’t in and of itself racist propaganda. That said it might very well not be a smart thing for Nike to put on its shoes. Said another way while I don’t feel like people regardless of race should be offended by the Betsy Ross flag (in and of itself) people invariably will be so Nike probably should have realized that... |
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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 2, 2019 20:15:11 GMT -5
Sorry but for me, anything Kaepernick does holds no weight for me after the whole sit down during the national anthem thing that pretty much cost him a career in football. Not saying I agree with slavery or none like that, so don't go there. But Kaepernick is a little biatch that's always looking for an axe to grind about something. If he wanted to protest treatment of various minorities that's one thing...but sitting for the national anthem is another. Completely disrespectful to the Country that was allowing the little twit to earn millions to play football. Try that kind of protest in Russia, China or ay of those countries and if the police or government don't end you then your fellow countrymen will. Specifically those that fought for that country's beliefs in a war. Here's my thing... where else is he supposed to protest? How is he supposed to truly make a statement on social media or something like that? The only way to get a reaction is with big actions. The first person to tell him to do it was a veteran. You don’t get a reaction and cause change through passive means. Peaceful protest is by far the best way to get things done, which is exactly what Kaepernick did. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 21:03:24 GMT -5
Yeah no. He is sponsored by Nike. I'm guessing they take advantage of slave labor?
His way is to play football again and use that as a tool to protest. But they won't sign him because he's a cancer . He's makes no sense.
Again explain how white people adopted him yet America is racist. In his circumstances anyway.
I get people suck but he really doesn't have much to stand on ...or kneel.
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Post by theclv24 on Jul 2, 2019 21:17:33 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with the issue, and actually weakens your argument. This is an actual argument and I respect it. No one is arguing to wipe out history, though. It's pointing out to Nike that putting a Betsy Ross flag on a pair of shoes is not a smart move for their business. The majority of their sponsored athletes, along with a large portion of their consumer base, are African-American. Nike can do plenty well with red white and blue shoes, or even shoes with the current flag on it, without invoking a slavery-era flag, which also happens to be one that plenty of white nationalist groups are using for their own symbolism. That flag can exist in history and in discussions without Nike using it to make money. Weakens my argument? I have no argument. I just was stating I have zero respect for Kaepernick and I stated my reasons. The second paragraph was my opinion on why I think the Betsy Ross flag isn’t in and of itself racist propaganda. That said it might very well not be a smart thing for Nike to put on its shoes. Said another way while I don’t feel like people regardless of race should be offended by the Betsy Ross flag (in and of itself) people invariably will be so Nike probably should have realized that... My point is that every argument in this thread against Nike's decision so far has actually just been a personal opinion about Kap. Taking him out of the equation, the latter part of your post was the first attempt by anyone to actually discuss the merits of Nike's decision, so I was more or less trying to highlight it. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 2, 2019 21:23:16 GMT -5
Again explain how white people adopted him yet America is racist. Racism exists in America. That does not mean that everyone in America is racist. Clearly, his adoptive parents happen to not be racist. That Kaepernick succeeded and made a lot of money by being good at football doesn't mean that people of color are not systematically oppressed by law enforcement. There is a lot of inherent prejudice at play, and it's a complex issue, but the data shows conclusively that people of color are more at risk of injury or death by police. Data shows that people of color are more likely to land in jail and systematically spend more time incarcerated for the same crimes as white people. This is what Kaepernick is protesting; it has nothing to do with how much money he - or any other person of color - makes. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 2, 2019 21:26:32 GMT -5
I can see how a US flag from a time period when people were enslaved based on race could be offensive to people of that race. It seems that I've understated the symbolism of the Betsy Ross flag. The original US flag has been co-opted by the three-percenters, originally a militant Constitutional originalist group that has become a far right-wing, white supremacist hate group. So, it's actually much more than just harkening back to a time when slavery existed, but, to some people, that flag represents an endorsement of white supremacy. Kaepernick, a company spokesperson specifically paid to help Nike sell shoes to people of color, alerts Nike that the flag raises some concerns about how the product would be received, and somehow, he's the problem. No. The problem is that there are people who want to treat other people like second-class citizens (and, I get it, these are very few), or who do not understand their own privilege and could not even conceive of how life is for people of color. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 2, 2019 21:29:50 GMT -5
Here's a tweet that shows how the Betsy Ross flag has been co-opted by a white supremacist group. Some of the men in the photo are making a gesture that means "White Power".
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Post by Royce on Jul 2, 2019 22:18:02 GMT -5
So f'ing dumb what people get their panties in a bunch these days. How about enjoying life for once, especially in America!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 22:43:22 GMT -5
He's a moron.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jul 3, 2019 1:46:25 GMT -5
Says it's so dumb what people get their panties in a twist about, WHILST getting his panties in a twist about nothing...
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Post by theclv24 on Jul 3, 2019 7:22:31 GMT -5
So f'ing dumb what people get their panties in a bunch these days. How about enjoying life for once, especially in America!
Right? People are so easily triggered by Kap, it's crazy. One dude even said he was going to order a Betsy Ross flag on Amazon now. |
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Post by DaveC_87 on Jul 3, 2019 8:28:17 GMT -5
Here is my solution and contribution to this: I, as a consumer, will not purchase Nike products. I also stopped watching NFL for similar reasons. #snowflakes
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Post by DaveC_87 on Jul 3, 2019 8:30:02 GMT -5
So f'ing dumb what people get their panties in a bunch these days. How about enjoying life for once, especially in America!
Right? People are so easily triggered by Kap, it's crazy. One dude even said he was going to order a Betsy Ross flag on Amazon now. That person doesn't sound like he has his panties in a bunch. That person is giving the middle finger to snowflakes. That's the way I see it. |
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