|
Post by daddyjules on Feb 17, 2015 1:17:31 GMT -5
I keep seeing people suggest turning off aids to make scoring higher so lets so what the majority would prefer!
|
|
|
Post by silap on Feb 17, 2015 7:30:30 GMT -5
All aids on for me.
We're likely to break the -60 barrier on the European Tour this week. Not something we should want (at all) i.m.h.o.! I think the problem lies within the course selection process. Finding a visually stunning course which is a challenge for everyone without being unfair is probably the hardest task within TGCT.
That being said .. it's only week 7 of the first season. So I'm hopeful the tours will improve concerning difficulty in the near future.
|
|
|
Post by silap on Feb 17, 2015 7:53:38 GMT -5
Just read the tweet concerning Dario Logan's new course.
"5* Course Alert - Dario Logan's new one, The Challenge Club. He found that fine line between tough and fair!"
Will have to give it a go later, maybe Dario set a new standard here .. would be nice!
|
|
|
Post by mcbogga on Feb 17, 2015 8:45:58 GMT -5
I found fairways far too generous on the Challenge Club. It is a very very good course, and no push over, but the challenge level needs to go up another notch or two...
Basic issue is still that putting make percentages are far too high. Only way to combat this is to trick up the greens to an unrealistic level, or get rid of the grid.
Looking at many of the 5* courses lately they are great, but they are "resort courses". Super wide fairways and large inviting greens. This is probably since this is the reference we usually have from playing in real life. It you look at modern real life courses built to be championship caliber however they are brutal sometimes from the back tees. Pinched fairways, 250yds forced carries to have a chance to hold the green with the approach and "red line" drop offs into water, bunkers and devilish collection areas a plenty.
I agree that designing such courses is a super challenge for sure.
Then the question is what we are looking for. I want to have realistic scoring for the winners (-10 to -20 winning score normally, around par in the Opens), but think most people would be very frustrated with that difficulty level. I do hope they turn the scout cam off for the masters as was suggested a couple of months back. A step in the right direction.
|
|
|
Post by CongoGB on Feb 17, 2015 8:58:59 GMT -5
If you're gonna do anything at first, turn off the scout cam. I actually played the game for the first month or so without realising it existed at all! Then I discovered the Y button!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 9:34:30 GMT -5
Just read the tweet concerning Dario Logan's new course. "5* Course Alert - Dario Logan's new one, The Challenge Club. He found that fine line between tough and fair!" Will have to give it a go later, maybe Dario set a new standard here .. would be nice! It's a nice course for sure, Doyley creamed it in a second go around, it will widen the gap between the skilled players and the average players, not the way to go IMHO. Not sure what the definition of fair is, and it would depend on the skill of the player in determining if it was fair or not.
Just making the course longer is not the answer IMHO. The game has changed, the course designers need to change their way of thinking, the course picking needs to change as well. If you think -60 this week is a bit much, wait till you see it again next week.
I have been saying this for a little bit, its falling on deaf ears, but we need courses that are easy to par, yet hard to birdie, just increasing the length of the course makes both harder. Its not at all fair to just put a hard challenging course into play and watch as skilled players still kill it and average players scores sky rocket. That will kill the game, kill the tours, kill the fun. We need to decrease the gap between the average player and skilled player. How is that possible you might ask? It's done by ensuring 2 putts. You lower the amount of 1 putts and 3 putts and increase the amount of 2 putts for everyone. You increase the length of the skilled players first putt and make it harder to read using varying breaks in the putt. You make it easier for average players to get on the greens and the putts not crazy stupid giving them 2 putts as well.
You obviously cannot eliminate the gap between the average and the skilled, but I know it can be decreased easily enough.
This might sound like a shameless plug, but please try Whitby Shores (Blue Tees). I put a few of my ideas into this course to decrease the gap I mentioned, the course was to far along to put them all in, but you will see the true definition of fair and challenging. There's still more I would like to do, but it would be handy if I could get a lot of plays from average and skilled players to determine if I'm on the right track, my next track I could tweak and make this a dream of reducing the gap with course design a reality. I would be really surprised if a skilled player killed it and equally surprised if an average player got killed. I think presently the lowest a skilled player could go on a very good round -7, but the average score would be about -5, whereas the average player would only shoot a couple over to a couple under. I would also share what I have done with all the other designers.
Like I said the course was to far along to implement all my ideas, I think I can even decrease that small gap yet even further.
I really believe I'm on to something here, but I need all of your help, I have no access to get the course on tour for a good test, nor do I believe it should be yet, I'm not asking for that, but with your help, we could change course design for the better and with the goal of reducing the gap between the skilled and the average player, and make things more fun.
Just remember what I'm after here, the average player will not make a lot of birdies on this course, but I'm after them making a lot of pars. The skilled players will get a lot sniffs at birdie, but will miss a lot of those putts, again a lot of pars. Play it report your findings here. tgctours.proboards.com/thread/1912/whitby-shores-blue-tees
|
|
|
Post by djdavefl on Feb 17, 2015 10:11:48 GMT -5
Scout Cam can be turned off and will bring some more difficulty into play as the approach shots can't be dialed in as easily.
But if you turn "Auto Club Selection" OFF the putting becomes more challenging. Instead of the putting aiming marker being set to approximately the correct distance meaning just a little tweaking to dial in the proper speed and line, the default position requires more adjustments. I found that it was much harder to gauge the right speed in that mode, and what would have been simple putts became more challenging.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 10:33:31 GMT -5
On the topic at hand, driving up skilled players scores a little and average players scores a lot is not the answer and accomplishes likely the opposite of what you want to accomplish, and that is a fun competitive round.
|
|
|
Post by fondername0 on Feb 17, 2015 10:49:05 GMT -5
The scores are not realistic because the game itself is not realistic. In real golf you are not going to go out there and hit 90+% of the fairways. In real golf 6 foot puts are hard, in this game they are like 3 footers. In real golf you can't chip in 1 - 3 times a round. It is what it is.
Just play the game. The courses are fine, its the engine of the game that is too easy.
|
|
|
Post by t2theb2 on Feb 17, 2015 10:52:59 GMT -5
I would love to see the scores around even par for a round but this is difficult to do as we have found on previous golf games. I do not think its the courses its the game overall, take magnolia for instance. It is not an easy course but if played well you can still shoot low. Taking scout cam off is a bad fix for me even though i played tiger woods on simulation. It brings and elements of luck into it rather than skill especially if playing a new course and you do not know the slopes on the greens. The best way to make this game harder would be to bring in the diagonal swing (like simulation from tiger woods) as it is much harder to do. And with this game being much more sensitive than tiger was the scores would drop. A minor tweak to chip, pitch and flop shots also if they took away the ability to take distance off by adding loft it would make for getting up and down for par much more difficult. I do understand you need to be able to add loft to some of those shots so that should stay put, but it could be made like the 3 and 5 wood where it does not take distance off.
THIS GAME WILL NEED TO BRING IN NEWER DIFFICULTY SETTING UPDATES IF IT GOING TO SURVIVE THE LONG HAUL.
|
|
|
Post by fondername0 on Feb 17, 2015 11:07:46 GMT -5
I would love to see the scores around even par for a round but this is difficult to do as we have found on previous golf games. I do not think its the courses its the game overall, take magnolia for instance. It is not an easy course but if played well you can still shoot low. Taking scout cam off is a bad fix for me even though i played tiger woods on simulation. It brings and elements of luck into it rather than skill especially if playing a new course and you do not know the slopes on the greens. The best way to make this game harder would be to bring in the diagonal swing (like simulation from tiger woods) as it is much harder to do. And with this game being much more sensitive than tiger was the scores would drop. A minor tweak to chip, pitch and flop shots also if they took away the ability to take distance off by adding loft it would make for getting up and down for par much more difficult. I do understand you need to be able to add loft to some of those shots so that should stay put, but it could be made like the 3 and 5 wood where it does not take distance off. THIS GAME WILL NEED TO BRING IN NEWER DIFFICULTY SETTING UPDATES IF IT GOING TO SURVIVE THE LONG HAUL. Scout cam might be worth exploring. It would put a premium on practice rounds, not sure if everyone would have the time to put in the pre-tourney work.
|
|
|
Post by mcbogga on Feb 17, 2015 11:27:34 GMT -5
My solution as proposed over at HB as well would be to introduce a tempo/timing mechanic into the swing and tie this to pushs and pulls. I am a bit surprised that no one is talking about how it is impossible to hit some very common ball flights like the push-draw and pull-slice (most common shot in golf...) in game. Seems to me ball starts pretty much straight every time.
Make the new mechanic extremely sensitive so absolutely straight shots would be very rare but also make it so that deviations are not more than maximum 5-8% for all but the worst misses. Use same mechanic for putting and balance it so that straight 8-10 footers will lip out unless very precise tempo/timing is employed.
Package it as a "pro" or simulation mode to not alienate beginners and casual players, Problem solved.
But I don't think this will happen, sadly.
|
|
|
Post by TROWELHEAD on Feb 18, 2015 19:10:13 GMT -5
Out of curiosity , who played what golf game previously ? The reason 4 askin is every1 wants tougher courses but it seems most played AMATEUR level tgw so they dont really want the game to be any harder cus they dont want the challenge of a golf course more over a challange of who hits its it straighter hence the unrealistic scores being posted on a game thats supposed to b just that , realistic . Bah humbug lol By agreeing with t2theb2 it takes out the need 4 policin every decent round 4 fear of sum1 using a straight shootin aid ie diagonal swing is defo the way forward
|
|
Kodiak_OS
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 146
TGCT Name: Dan Turner
|
Post by Kodiak_OS on Feb 18, 2015 20:09:59 GMT -5
Out of curiosity , who played what golf game previously ? The reason 4 askin is every1 wants tougher courses but it seems most played AMATEUR level tgw so they dont really want the game to be any harder cus they dont want the challenge of a golf course more over a challange of who hits its it straighter hence the unrealistic scores being posted on a game thats supposed to b just that , realistic . Bah humbug lol By agreeing with t2theb2 it takes out the need 4 policin every decent round 4 fear of sum1 using a straight shootin aid ie diagonal swing is defo the way forward Well besides this game, I've played every EA golf dating back to Sega Genesis (under the PGA or Tiger name) along with Links on Xbox and a golf game on PC back in the late 80's made by Sierra. Can't recall all the settings through the years but last year on Tiger, I played my Career mode on the hardest setting with all aids off. I had my guy set up as with the high draw. Will also have Perfect Golf once it releases on consoles
|
|
|
Post by acidflashback on Feb 22, 2015 16:27:14 GMT -5
When I have played no-aids I have really enjoyed it. harks back to the no grid tourneys we played on PC a few months back. Either way, as long as everyone is subject to the same conditions (not wind yet) then all should be well.
|
|