js
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 15:49:05 GMT -5
The practice of making accusations without evidence. Seems to be what you're doing. Am I wrong here to question your assumptions or beliefs as you stated them in a public forum....no.
Again, my apologies if my tone with regards to seeking clarification upset you.
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js
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 16:01:32 GMT -5
I will say, however, that I'm glad the OP found a potential fix for the Corsair mouse. If that indeed fixes the situation, TGCtours should issue a statement regarding the allowable mouse specs if using Corsair.
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 16:07:55 GMT -5
Point 1 - How, though, are we supposed to police what controllers people are using? There is no data available to us to tell us what controller someone uses. The only available data to us is the results produced in the game and thus our only option to police the issue is to do what we have done...check rounds for repeated straight shots. Point 2 - We're not going to reveal the exact details of the spot check procedure because if we did, people would do play with their augmented system and do just enough to alter the results and pass the standard. Point 3 - I think everyone is open for discussing solutions, but the tone of your posts makes it sound like we're just ignorant to the issue and don't want to do anything about it. It's frankly, not a simple issue and we have the best policy that we feel is enforceable at this time. If more data becomes available to us at some point that provides a better solution, I'm sure we'll move to that. But for now, I've heard no suggestions that provide for any realistic way to police the issue beyond what we are currently doing.
SmilingGoats,
Thanks for posting. I'll address your post by points 1-3.
Point #1: I'll concede you can't monitor what controllers people are using, but if straight shots are truly the evil of TGCtours, then provide a standard for the amount of straight line shots that are acceptable? Define it for the community. (i.e. 10%, 20%, etc? If you go over this, your DQ'd). As for there's no data, you have an entire community that you can pull data from. Find out what people are using. Find out the percentage of shots that players hit straight (PC/PS4/Xbox) and determine the acceptable rate from there.
Point #2: Your spot-check procedure is not the issue here, at all. Again, it's the lack of an issued standard for what is acceptable regarding hitting straight shots. As I've stated above, I can do it regardless of the type of mouse I use. Is this unique to me? No. Can many other people do it? Yes. In my case, it is the product of putting in a few hundred hours into this game since the early access opened up? Further, you're assuming people who hit straight line shots are playing with an augmented system. What? Please explain how you "know" that or at least share some data that leads you to believe this statement.
Point #3: Your assumption of my "tone" is a bit off though. I might add that my question of "is this really the best tgctours can do?" is not an attack on you or the fantastic community you guys founded. It's a question that needs to be asked since this is a reoccurring issue regarding the fairness of play and confusion of what the rules are. My apologies if the question upset you. It's not personal. In response to your statement that you've heard no suggestions that provide a realistic way to police the issue, how so? I posted a few. What do you think of the ones I posted throughout this thread?
Point 1: The admin can't "define" it as such. I understand your frustration cause I just asked the same question. But lets say they come out with a number 40% of your shots can be straight, anything over is illegal. Then someone gaming the system can then select and choose the 40% (most likely approach shots or putts) and ensure each round they are at like 37% consistently. It invites people to game the system. Point 2: After some discussions with admin and many players, I have found out that the overwhelming majority of shots are not perfectly straight. In fact I would say in one round if you have 20% of your shots perfectly straight, you are playing extraordinarily well. So if they get on and see someone doing 80-90% like me, it is pretty obvious something is up. Finally they have the ability to understand overall from all platforms what the overall average is of people from the best golfers to the duffers. If someone is leaps and bounds above the average, they deserve extra scrutiny. Point 3: It is their show, as they say. They get to make the rules. While we all would like more transparency, I can fully understand why they need to keep things close, because there are people who WILL exploit it. So you have to ask yourself, do you trust them? If you do, great. If you don't then you have to ask yourself do you want to play in the tour? I disagreed fully with and still do with the chipping on the green rule, but that one rule is not enough for me to throw in the towel and call it quits. Your tone was as such as you were to the point of demanding information which frankly you don't need to know. It would be nice but there is a reason why they are withholding it. So you can either accept it or pack up your stuff and move on. It is the way it is. Personally, I think this is more "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few things." and I think they are doing a good job at keeping things fair for all. |
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Post by SmilingGoats on Feb 15, 2015 16:08:40 GMT -5
We're not making assumptions or accusations. The rule is spelled out here: www.tgctours.com/Home/RulesPolicies#straight-shooter. If you are hitting perfectly straight shots on a repeated basis, you may be disqualified. We're not saying that you're cheating. No one ever said that. We made no accusations toward the original poster. He brought the issue to us and asked us to check it. It would have been checked anyway but since he brought it to us, we checked it immediately and gave him the opportunity to withdrawal rather than DQ. It was a bit of a special circumstance because he is attempting to play with an injured thumb, something he had posted about several times prior. In the end, you can see we handled it appropriately and he handled it admirably. |
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 16:14:50 GMT -5
I will say, however, that I'm glad the OP found a potential fix for the Corsair mouse. If that indeed fixes the situation, TGCtours should issue a statement regarding the allowable mouse specs if using Corsair. OP didn't find the fix, I did. I posted the screen shots and all. The simple fact is that this is not inclusive to just Corsair. Razer, Logitech, and any mouse that has onboard memory or the ability to change X/Y axis or enable Angle swapping is capable. That means probably over 80% of the mice out there can do it if you download the software. I don't think there needs to be any specific specs for mice as each mouse is not the same, nor can each mouse be made the same. The less expensive ones won't have this capability. I think all that needs to be done is what they have done. Software that aids in keeping your swing unnaturally perfect is disallowed and by using spot-checks we will find out and you will be penalized. Simply put it would be the same way if we suggested that everyone had to buy a specific controller, with specific specs for each. It is impossible to verify or enforce, nor is it fair to others who don't have that particular controller. I'm sorry if you got the impression that my particular mouse had an advantage over other mice. That is not the case. It was the software I used to for another game to save those settings to the memory on the onboard mouse that was the issue and my not knowing about exactly how this feature worked, that was. In other words, I AM at fault and not the equipment. ALL THAT BEING SAID. OMG this game is like night n day. I apparently love to pull the mouse left 90% of the time. LOL. This is going to take a lot of work to get used to this all over again. |
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Post by MrSourNinja on Feb 15, 2015 16:20:19 GMT -5
I will say, however, that I'm glad the OP found a potential fix for the Corsair mouse. If that indeed fixes the situation, TGCtours should issue a statement regarding the allowable mouse specs if using Corsair. OP didn't find the fix, I did. I posted the screen shots and all. The simple fact is that this is not inclusive to just Corsair. Razer, Logitech, and any mouse that has onboard memory or the ability to change X/Y axis or enable Angle swapping is capable. That means probably over 80% of the mice out there can do it if you download the software. I don't think there needs to be any specific specs for mice as each mouse is not the same, nor can each mouse be made the same. The less expensive ones won't have this capability. I think all that needs to be done is what they have done. Software that aids in keeping your swing unnaturally perfect is disallowed and by using spot-checks we will find out and you will be penalized. Simply put it would be the same way if we suggested that everyone had to buy a specific controller, with specific specs for each. It is impossible to verify or enforce, nor is it fair to others who don't have that particular controller. I'm sorry if you got the impression that my particular mouse had an advantage over other mice. That is not the case. It was the software I used to for another game to save those settings to the memory on the onboard mouse that was the issue and my not knowing about exactly how this feature worked, that was. In other words, I AM at fault and not the equipment. ALL THAT BEING SAID. OMG this game is like night n day. I apparently love to pull the mouse left 90% of the time. LOL. This is going to take a lot of work to get used to this all over again. You are OP.  lol |
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js
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 16:39:08 GMT -5
We're not making assumptions or accusations. The rule is spelled out here: www.tgctours.com/Home/RulesPolicies#straight-shooter. If you are hitting perfectly straight shots on a repeated basis, you may be disqualified. We're not saying that you're cheating. No one ever said that. We made no accusations toward the original poster. He brought the issue to us and asked us to check it. It would have been checked anyway but since he brought it to us, we checked it immediately and gave him the opportunity to withdrawal rather than DQ. It was a bit of a special circumstance because he is attempting to play with an injured thumb, something he had posted about several times prior. In the end, you can see we handled it appropriately and he handled it admirably.
Brighttail - you're right it is their show (and a good one at that). Forgive me for asking clarification regarding a rule. I actually like knowing what the rules are regarding competition (clearly).
SmilingGoats - Being a rule person, especially with regards to golf/competition, I like clarity. This policy has room to grow. Are you saying its impossible to consistently hit straight shots without using devices or augmented systems?
Withthatsaid, I'm just going to play with a controller from now on. That way I'll guarantee a shank or two!
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Post by Doyley on Feb 15, 2015 18:19:24 GMT -5
Are you saying its impossible to consistently hit straight shots without using devices or augmented systems? Yes, that is what we are saying. When we say perfectly straight shots - we are referring to the white line shot path. If you are hitting it perfectly straight every time I would suggest having a look at your setup as well. |
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Post by NCFCRulz on Feb 15, 2015 18:41:13 GMT -5
Tldr
End of the day. It is impossible to hit more than 30% of shots exactly straight with a stock controller. Anyone who claims.they shoot higher is simply not able to see the 1 pixel difference in the middle.
If this is possible on a mouse (I don't use a mouse) then too right it should be Dq'd as it is using a piece of equipment that other players.of the game do.not have access to and therefore an unfair advantage.
That's my 2 cents. If PC players are too proud to drop the mouse for a stock controller purely because they spent x on their mouse then thats their decision and they will live with the consequences of dq if they hit a % of straight shots that is simply higher than anything possible with stock controller
Nothing against anyone in this thread, just my take on things
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 15, 2015 20:28:49 GMT -5
Brighttail - hat off to you for coming forward with this. Your conduct in this thread should be an example for all. This thread I think is almost unique in video-gaming. We have had a couple of run ins in the past where we have not agreed, but I really respect what you did here.
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Post by Mitchblue on Feb 15, 2015 20:32:25 GMT -5
What's a perfectly straight shot..I'm not sure I've had one?
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 20:44:22 GMT -5
Brighttail - hat off to you for coming forward with this. Your conduct in this thread should be an example for all. This thread I think is almost unique in video-gaming. We have had a couple of run ins in the past where we have not agreed, but I really respect what you did here. I do appreciate it. There is no reason to play the game if you can't play it with integrity. That is what golf is all about in my opinion. |
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 20:59:12 GMT -5
In other news on Tuesday I get my new computer case which will be step #1 in working towards a complete water cooled system. Ideally this will bring temps down enough that I can get over 5GHz on the processor and video cards over 8 GHZ. Won't do a bunch for TGC but other games it is going to rock.
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js
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Posts: 40
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 22:09:03 GMT -5
Are you saying its impossible to consistently hit straight shots without using devices or augmented systems? Yes, that is what we are saying. When we say perfectly straight shots - we are referring to the white line shot path. If you are hitting it perfectly straight every time I would suggest having a look at your setup as well. Fair enough. What do you recommend players look at in their set ups to address this issue outside of mouse software? |
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Post by Doyley on Feb 15, 2015 22:23:58 GMT -5
If you aren't looking at mouse software, I guess that just leaves the mouse itself. Just as Ron above found out - the issue was with a feature built into the mouse itself. But I would think mouse software would be a better place to start.
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lol
