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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 9:22:25 GMT -5
no......strait line with mouse most of the time? software settings fudged to do so, or simple strait edge. strait line with controller most of the time? either bad controller not working as intended, or a 3rd party controller with much less sensitivity, or flat out software/hardware settings fudged. I have not seen the first good player use a stock controller and get half as many strait line shots as some of these so called "skilled" mouse users. 2nd bolded area, why in the hell would you do this? many of us pc users use the same controllers you console guys use. Tastetw, A couple of questions: Do you use a controller or a mouse to play? Is it easier to hit a straight shot with a controller or mouse? i use a xbox 360 contoller, its much easier with a mouse if you adjust the settings like so many mouse users do. a while back, i ran some tests to see if i could duplicate leadbelly's accuracy (mouse user), didnt take too long at all with a mouse. |
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 9:34:16 GMT -5
i use a xbox 360 contoller, its much easier with a mouse if you adjust the settings like so many mouse users do. a while back, i ran some tests to see if i could duplicate leadbelly's accuracy, didnt take too long at all. I appreciate the reply. The reason I suggested separating the players on each system is because the game appears to be easier for those using a mouse vs controller. If that is the case, then an equipment standard needs to be implemented (i.e. PC players must use a controller) or you separate the groups by the type of equipment they are using. The latter is absolutely not an appealing solution and could be alleviated with a defined standard of what equipment is acceptable for play. I'm just guessing here, but most people playing this game on the PC are using a mouse. Similar to you, I've tested out multiple controller types on this game (mouse, XB1, PS4 controller) and regardless of the mouse type, it did not take long for me to get the straight line consistently on a (insert brand) mouse without messing with DPI settings. I can't say that about the Xb1/PS4 controllers. And for what it's worth, I'm not here to argue, I'm attempting to find a solution that provides a fair solution for all players. TGCtours.com has done an incredible job growing this community (for free too), this game, and I want to see that trend continue. |
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Post by SAM on Feb 15, 2015 10:06:58 GMT -5
Totally agree with Tastegw on this........ I recently purchased the Logitech f710 (wireless version of Crazy Croc's controller above) & boy does it make a difference. I went from straight shooting maybe 4 or 5 times per round with my wired Xbox controller for windows to significantly more often than not with the Logitech. I just managed to make the cut this week at Coyote Canyon on the Web.com Tour & I know for a fact it's because I was using my new Logitech controller. Like Crazy Croc, I'm afraid this device will eventually get me disqualified & then banned should I continue to use it & improve my putting which is my Achilles Heel to mastering this game. The day before I took delivery of the Logitech I hit a final round 57 at Loch Lorne on that weeks tour, so I know I can play well with a stock controller, albeit in low winds  ....... So, I made a concious decision today that I will no longer use the Logitech f710 wireless 3rd party controller to play at TGCTours because even though I'm not that good at the game, it does give me a significant advantage over the same and slightly better skill level players & I find that morally wrong. Next time I plug the wireless receiver into my USB port will be to play GTA V when it's finally released on the Steam PC network.. (and, yes! I've pre purchased it). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 10:14:39 GMT -5
Totally agree with Tastegw on this........ I recently purchased the Logitech f710 (wireless version of Crazy Croc's controller above) & boy does it make a difference. I went from straight shooting maybe 4 or 5 times per round with my wired Xbox controller for windows to significantly more often than not with the Logitech. I just managed to make the cut this week at Coyote Canyon on the Web.com Tour & I know for a fact it's because I was using my new Logitech controller. Like Crazy Croc, I'm afraid this device will eventually get me disqualified & then banned should I continue to use it & improve my putting which is my Achilles Heel to mastering this game. The day before I took delivery of the Logitech I hit a final round 57 at Loch Lorne on that weeks tour, so I know I can play well with a stock controller, albeit in low winds ....... So, I made a concious decision today that I will no longer use the Logitech f710 wireless 3rd party controller to play at TGCTours because even though I'm not that good at the game, it does give me a significant advantage over the same and slightly better skill level players & I find that morally wrong. Next time I plug the wireless receiver into my USB port will be to play GTA V when it's finally released on the Steam PC network.. (and, yes! I've pre purchased it). tell me if its good (gta V) been wondering if i should spend the 60 bucks on it or not, love the gta series, but have not played it in a few years. |
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js
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 10:15:06 GMT -5
Totally agree with Tastegw on this........ I recently purchased the Logitech f710 (wireless version of Crazy Croc's controller above) & boy does it make a difference. I went from straight shooting maybe 4 or 5 times per round with my wired Xbox controller for windows to significantly more often than not with the Logitech. I just managed to make the cut this week at Coyote Canyon on the Web.com Tour & I know for a fact it's because I was using my new Logitech controller. Like Crazy Croc, I'm afraid this device will eventually get me disqualified & then banned should I continue to use it & improve my putting which is my Achilles Heel to mastering this game. The day before I took delivery of the Logitech I hit a final round 57 at Loch Lorne on that weeks tour, so I know I can play well with a stock controller, albeit in low winds ....... So, I made a concious decision today that I will no longer use the Logitech f710 wireless 3rd party controller to play at TGCTours because even though I'm not that good at the game, it does give me a significant advantage over the same and slightly better skill level players & I find that morally wrong. Next time I plug the wireless receiver into my USB port will be to play GTA V when it's finally released on the Steam PC network.. (and, yes! I've pre purchased it). So you agree that certain controllers make a difference, correct? If so, what is your suggestion to make the playing field fair for all players? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 10:54:23 GMT -5
Totally agree with Tastegw on this........ I recently purchased the Logitech f710 (wireless version of Crazy Croc's controller above) & boy does it make a difference. I went from straight shooting maybe 4 or 5 times per round with my wired Xbox controller for windows to significantly more often than not with the Logitech. I just managed to make the cut this week at Coyote Canyon on the Web.com Tour & I know for a fact it's because I was using my new Logitech controller. Like Crazy Croc, I'm afraid this device will eventually get me disqualified & then banned should I continue to use it & improve my putting which is my Achilles Heel to mastering this game. The day before I took delivery of the Logitech I hit a final round 57 at Loch Lorne on that weeks tour, so I know I can play well with a stock controller, albeit in low winds ....... So, I made a concious decision today that I will no longer use the Logitech f710 wireless 3rd party controller to play at TGCTours because even though I'm not that good at the game, it does give me a significant advantage over the same and slightly better skill level players & I find that morally wrong. Next time I plug the wireless receiver into my USB port will be to play GTA V when it's finally released on the Steam PC network.. (and, yes! I've pre purchased it). So you agree that certain controllers make a difference, correct? If so, what is your suggestion to make the playing field fair for all players? i know you asked him, but the spot checks are working as intended, if ppl dont want to get disqualified for "strait shooting" with such devices, then they should get themselves a proper device or setup. i mean look at birghttail, he is trying to find a new method to use for his mouse to be "legal" again. its a shame he will not take the best route and just get a controller. |
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 11:38:55 GMT -5
That is literally probably the vast majority of what my golf swings look like. Not a lot to see. Very simple. I'm going to experiment tomorrow with higher DPI. That video is private. If you want to set up twitch, get a twitch account and then download OBS. Here are some instructions, if you are interested. Fixed, New to all this... video production stuff. |
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 11:57:51 GMT -5
So you agree that certain controllers make a difference, correct? If so, what is your suggestion to make the playing field fair for all players? i know you asked him, but the spot checks are working as intended, if ppl dont want to get disqualified for "strait shooting" with such devices, then they should get themselves a proper device or setup. i mean look at birghttail, he is trying to find a new method to use for his mouse to be "legal" again. its a shame he will not take the best route and just get a controller. I believe you are misinterpreting the nature and purpose of this thread. First off, when you have used a mouse all your life, and not a controller, why should you have to "be like Taste" and "use what Taste" uses? WHy should I go out and spend more money, than I already have, to "play the way Taste feels everyone should play?" Simple answer, is no one should have to play like "Taste thinks they should play." When I first started playing the game, I was playing at a higher DPI. I found that according to Loren this was way too high and HB suggested a Lower setting. Turns out he was right and I honestly felt like I was playing the game as intended. What I didn't know, is that the vast majority of players out there don't hit the ball perfectly straight but just a fraction of the time. I honestly thought 70, 80, 90% was perfectly normal, this is why I wanted to know the number the TD's looked for, what I found was the actual number was FAR FAR FAR lower. This got me thinking. Either I was the Rainman of swings or I'm missing something. As I stated to Doyley, it would be a shame if I were the Rainman of Swinging Straight, only to suck so bad at the rest of the game. So I came to the community to ask for ideas on what I might be missing. I did not ask for a debate on which controller is better. For the record, I am not intentionally cheating. In fact, I originally approached Doyley and Tim and invited them to spot check my last round, because after shooting a -51 I felt something might be up. SO I want to thank those who have made valid suggestions, I will try them later today. Once again, Taste, I'm trying to find out what I have missed. There are a lot of people who play with a mouse and pass spot checks with out issue. I'm trying to find out why my mouse is not acting like theirs. Finally to Doyley, Tim and the other Spot Checkers. Now that I better understand the process and what you are all looking for, I have to say that you are doing a bang up job. |
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 12:07:14 GMT -5
Tastegw,
I'd disagree about the spot checks working as intended. To work, there has to be a standard. The current "we spot-checked you and saw you hit to many (insert arbitrary #) straight shots and that's not fair" is not a defined standard.
Going back to the OPs issue and I'd think you'd agree, there's no question using a mouse over time becomes easier to hit straight line shots. My own testing confirmed this for me. With that said, it isn't illegal to use a mouse. The OP is using what is available to them, following the recommended specs HB Studios put out, and playing at a level most could only dream of (seriously - 51, awesome stuff!). What rules has the OP broken and why should the OP be penalized for following the rules and excelling? It's not enough for the OP to be told they should dumb down there equipment if there isn't a standard to go by. Until the use of a mouse is taken out of the equation or specific mouse specs are set by TGCtours.com, we shouldn't penalize people for using them in competition.
Going forward, I'd rather TGCtours just implement a policy that if players want to participate in a tour event and want their scores to count, they have to play with a XB1/XB360/PS4 controller/specific mouse and/or settings. Having a clear standard will actually give more credibility to spot-checks. Especially given the difficulty of hitting a straight shot consistently with a controller.
We simply need clear rules of play to regulate fairness. Is that too much to ask?
To the OP, this isn't a debate about what controller to use. It has more to do with a set of standards/rules. Your original post brought up a valid concern for many in the TGCtours community and it's led to a discussion on how to find a solution to a reoccurring issue. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 13:01:49 GMT -5
Hey JS. The problem is with your method of specific mouse settings is that with one click of the button they can be changed, that is the whole point of different profiles. I saw devices for controllers and such that put basically a clamp on either side of the joystick that would enable a perfect shot. How would the folks enforce or police this?
I do agree with some more clarified rules.
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Post by SmilingGoats on Feb 15, 2015 13:05:22 GMT -5
Tastegw, I'd disagree about the spot checks working as intended. To work, there has to be a standard. The current "we spot-checked you and saw you hit to many (insert arbitrary #) straight shots and that's not fair" is not a defined standard. Going back to the OPs issue and I'd think you'd agree, there's no question using a mouse over time becomes easier to hit straight line shots. My own testing confirmed this for me. With that said, it isn't illegal to use a mouse. The OP is using what is available to them, following the recommended specs HB Studios put out, and playing at a level most could only dream of (seriously - 51, awesome stuff!). What rules has the OP broken and why should the OP be penalized for following the rules and excelling? It's not enough for the OP to be told they should dumb down there equipment if there isn't a standard to go by. Until the use of a mouse is taken out of the equation or specific mouse specs are set by TGCtours.com, we shouldn't penalize people for using them in competition. Going forward, I'd rather TGCtours just implement a policy that if players want to participate in a tour event and want their scores to count, they have to play with a XB1/XB360/PS4 controller/specific mouse and/or settings. Having a clear standard will actually give more credibility to spot-checks. Especially given the difficulty of hitting a straight shot consistently with a controller. We simply need clear rules of play to regulate fairness. Is that too much to ask? To the OP, this isn't a debate about what controller to use. It has more to do with a set of standards/rules. Your original post brought up a valid concern for many in the TGCtours community and it's led to a discussion on how to find a solution to a reoccurring issue. There's nothing wrong with that.How, though, are we supposed to police what controllers people are using? There is no data available to us to tell us what controller someone uses. The only available data to us is the results produced in the game and thus our only option to police the issue is to do what we have done...check rounds for repeated straight shots. We're not going to reveal the exact details of the spot check procedure because if we did, people would do play with their augmented system and do just enough to alter the results and pass the standard. I think everyone is open for discussing solutions, but the tone of your posts makes it sound like we're just ignorant to the issue and don't want to do anything about it. It's frankly, not a simple issue and we have the best policy that we feel is enforceable at this time. If more data becomes available to us at some point that provides a better solution, I'm sure we'll move to that. But for now, I've heard no suggestions that provide for any realistic way to police the issue beyond what we are currently doing. |
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2015 15:31:47 GMT -5
Hello all,
So after some help from the community, Steve set me along the path that allowed me to figure out what happened. What follows is an explanation (with screenshots) so others can learn from my mistakes, as well as the consequences and what happens next after talking with the Admins. I will say again that I originally went to the admin to invite them to spot-check me after I completed my last four rounds and I was informed I failed the spot-check. At the time I had no idea what it was I was doing or what was causing me to have this unfair advantage, so i reached out to the community and the admins for help.
Steve suggested that I uninstall my Corsair software. I did, fully expecting my swings to be everywhere, they weren't. My swings were as straight as they have always been. At first I was confused but then I reinstalled the software and pulled out the owners manual, something I had never read and realized that this mouse has on board memory, actually on the mouse itself to save profiles/macros and that was physically separate from the software memory used by the computer.
Back when I got this mouse in October 2014, I wanted to create some macros in Starcraft 2, Elder Scrolls Online and some first person shooter games. The problem was when I would create them in the software, they wouldn't translate into any of the games, so I called Corsair for help. They explained that many games out there cannot recognize macros created using the software and that the only way to get these macros to work, is to save them physically in the mouse's memory and use the hardware profile. After about 30 minutes of him having me click on various things, we managed to get all my macros working and I quickly forgot about it all cause things just worked. Then came The Golf Club.
For this game, there was no need for any software/hardware macros, so I just played using my current settings, completely forgetting that I had changed one of the settings back in October. As explained earlier, Angle Swapping would make it where EVERY shot would be straight in the golf game, but for other games it is actually a hindrance and no one I know even uses this setting. What I did change was the horizontal axis to move about 1/4 less than the vertical axis. For first player shooting this really helps as you can use your arrow keys to move your body but use just your mouse to aim up or down, while not having to worry about side to side wobble. As you can see having this setting in The Golf Club would cause you to be almost perfect in the vertical with minimal side to side movement. So while I did miss a perfect shot at times, it was the exception.
So with these settings being in the physical mouse memory, even if I unchecked X/Y axis, Angle swapping and even use hardware, the effects were still active in the mouse memory and would continue to be until I physically erased or overwrote this memory. So while I thought I had disabled all these items, the fact was because I never saved it into the memory, nothing had changed. So I thought I was playing the game with no aid. I was wrong.
As it turns out, finding where to save these settings is not as easy as unchecking the hardware box. You have to click Manage Profiles, then click some dots (.....), select the profile and even then you can't just click OK, you have to click "Save to M95". My old Logitech mouse was not nearly this involved, so it took me a while to figure it out. I have illustrated all of this with the screen shots I have posted. This way if others find themselves in a similar situation, this may help them figure it out. It also will allow the administrators to, if they want, to monitor it.
/photo/1
So what does this mean? It means that I unintentionally had an advantage over other people. Earlier this morning I contacted the admins and offered to turn in my PGA card, forfeit all my FedEx points and money earned and start over in Q-School. I made this offer because I felt my rounds up to this point did not accurately reflect how I play and the fact that I have no idea how well I do play since I have never shot a round without the X/Y axis feature being engaged. The administrators said that while this option was a possibility it would cause them a lot of work. They would have to go back and recalculate every tournament, update the money and FedEx points. In other words it would be a tonne of work for them. Instead they offered me the opportunity to keep my current scores, money and points. My latest rounds at The Bavaro and the -51 final score would not be included as I will withdraw from the tournament with no penalty and I may continue on with future tournaments with the knowledge I will be spot-checked to ensure fairness and to ensure the issue has been resolved. They felt this was the fairest solution since I was proactive in originally coming to them and worked with them to find a resolution.
To me this is more than what I feel I deserve, because even though nothing I did was intentional, I still did gain an advantage. I do not, however wish to pile on more work to the administrators who already put in a lot of hours for this tour. I will be taking this week and maybe next testing out this new way of playing. It is like getting a brand new game and having to relearn everything all over again and I got a lot of work to figure out everything all over again.
I want to apologize to all. It was unintentional but in the end, it was an unfair advantage and regardless whether I meant it or not, it was wrong. i want to thank those who offered suggestions and a special thanks to Steve who pointed me in the right direction. Even though it was not the result i thought it would be, it did make me delve deeper to find out what was causing all of this.
Finally I do not want this thread to devolve into which controller is best or which should be banned. Every controller or Mouse has its pluses and minuses, and there is software and ways to 'cheat' using all the controllers/mice. Please don't demand that someone changes their preferred controller/mouse just cause you think yours is better. That is inconsiderate and arrogant. Learning more about the Spot-check system, I think it is doing exactly what it is intended to do and while no system is perfect, I do believe that the admin are doing damn good with what they have and their system is fair to all.
With that anyone have any questions about mice/settings and anything that relates to this post, feel free to ask. Thanks again to those who offered solutions and not complaints and finally to the admin for working with me to figure this out.
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js
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Post by js on Feb 15, 2015 15:38:15 GMT -5
Tastegw, I'd disagree about the spot checks working as intended. To work, there has to be a standard. The current "we spot-checked you and saw you hit to many (insert arbitrary #) straight shots and that's not fair" is not a defined standard. Going back to the OPs issue and I'd think you'd agree, there's no question using a mouse over time becomes easier to hit straight line shots. My own testing confirmed this for me. With that said, it isn't illegal to use a mouse. The OP is using what is available to them, following the recommended specs HB Studios put out, and playing at a level most could only dream of (seriously - 51, awesome stuff!). What rules has the OP broken and why should the OP be penalized for following the rules and excelling? It's not enough for the OP to be told they should dumb down there equipment if there isn't a standard to go by. Until the use of a mouse is taken out of the equation or specific mouse specs are set by TGCtours.com, we shouldn't penalize people for using them in competition. Going forward, I'd rather TGCtours just implement a policy that if players want to participate in a tour event and want their scores to count, they have to play with a XB1/XB360/PS4 controller/specific mouse and/or settings. Having a clear standard will actually give more credibility to spot-checks. Especially given the difficulty of hitting a straight shot consistently with a controller. We simply need clear rules of play to regulate fairness. Is that too much to ask? To the OP, this isn't a debate about what controller to use. It has more to do with a set of standards/rules. Your original post brought up a valid concern for many in the TGCtours community and it's led to a discussion on how to find a solution to a reoccurring issue. There's nothing wrong with that. - How, though, are we supposed to police what controllers people are using? There is no data available to us to tell us what controller someone uses. The only available data to us is the results produced in the game and thus our only option to police the issue is to do what we have done...check rounds for repeated straight shots. Point 2 - We're not going to reveal the exact details of the spot check procedure because if we did, people would do play with their augmented system and do just enough to alter the results and pass the standard. Point 3 - I think everyone is open for discussing solutions, but the tone of your posts makes it sound like we're just ignorant to the issue and don't want to do anything about it. It's frankly, not a simple issue and we have the best policy that we feel is enforceable at this time. If more data becomes available to us at some point that provides a better solution, I'm sure we'll move to that. But for now, I've heard no suggestions that provide for any realistic way to police the issue beyond what we are currently doing.
SmilingGoats,
Thanks for posting. I'll address your post by points 1-3.
Point #1: I'll concede you can't monitor what controllers people are using, but if straight shots are truly the evil of TGCtours, then provide a standard for the amount of straight line shots that are acceptable? Define it for the community. (i.e. 10%, 20%, etc? If you go over this, your DQ'd). As for there's no data, you have an entire community that you can pull data from. Find out what people are using. Find out the percentage of shots that players hit straight (PC/PS4/Xbox) and determine the acceptable rate from there.
Point #2: Your spot-check procedure is not the issue here, at all. Again, it's the lack of an issued standard for what is acceptable regarding hitting straight shots. As I've stated above, I can do it regardless of the type of mouse I use. Is this unique to me? No. Can many other people do it? Yes. In my case, it is the product of putting in a few hundred hours into this game since the early access opened up? Further, you're assuming people who hit straight line shots are playing with an augmented system. What? Please explain how you "know" that or at least share some data that leads you to believe this statement.
Point #3: Your assumption of my "tone" is a bit off though. I might add that my question of "is this really the best tgctours can do?" is not an attack on you or the fantastic community you guys founded. It's a question that needs to be asked since this is a reoccurring issue regarding the fairness of play and confusion of what the rules are. My apologies if the question upset you. It's not personal. In response to your statement that you've heard no suggestions that provide a realistic way to police the issue, how so? I posted a few. What do you think of the ones I posted throughout this thread?
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Post by SmilingGoats on Feb 15, 2015 15:42:33 GMT -5
Don't think I didn't see the McCarthyism bit even though you edited. Still think I'm off about your tone?
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Post by SAM on Feb 15, 2015 15:48:59 GMT -5
Next time I plug the wireless receiver into my USB port will be to play GTA V when it's finally released on the Steam PC network.. (and, yes! I've pre purchased it). tell me if its good (gta V) been wondering if i should spend the 60 bucks on it or not, love the gta series, but have not played it in a few years. lol.. me neither... Vice City was the last one I played..... Got a free copy of San Andreas with this pre purchase but can't be bothered to try it.. for some reason whenever I fire up Steam it auto loads "The Golf Club" To be honest it was my Grandson who gifted me GTA V, cos he wants to play the multi player with me (very generous, I know). Whether it's worth the 2 x £40 he paid? I'll let you know  |
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