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Post by cephyn on Aug 29, 2018 14:02:23 GMT -5
We're discussing this now - as posted in the OP this is not the case but we're looking at switching to make it less punishing on those with promotion marks (would keep more pressure on those with demotion marks as well as it wouldn't clear multiple demotion marks with one made cut). The scenario where you have 4 promotion marks and then have your console die mid-event resulting in a Withdraw and a 6 mark swing (to 2 demotion marks) is not ideal - makes sense to adjust. Appreciate the feedback! I like the +1/-1 system! That’s much more fair for those who have a bad week while still making it harder than it is currently to promote. Also loudly like to maybe see it brought down to 4? I like a +1/-1 better...it SHOULD be hard to get promoted, and I've always liked the idea of developing rivalries within your bracket. As it is now, its tough to do that unless you're in World. That said, I'd be fine with 4 strikes/checks to move down or up. Just my opinion - I really like the way season 5 is shaping up. |
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Post by hoosierjoe on Aug 29, 2018 14:36:54 GMT -5
I like the proposed system and agree that it should take longer to get promoted. I got promoted from E to D in just 4 tournaments, and missed doing so in 2 events by a stroke or two. It felt like the odds of actually winning an tournament were pretty slim as I would just get an exemption by finishing Top 20 or so, and then find myself in the middle of the pack working my way back up to do the same again. It felt as if the only chance to win was to find a course perfect to my play style and then shoot lights out for four rounds. Now winning still requires a great performance, but the new system makes winning tournaments feel a lot more attainable as you can progress within your flight at a reasonable pace.
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Post by CTLegacy on Aug 29, 2018 14:47:02 GMT -5
This new system is counter intuitive. Especially when starting a new version of the game that has a learning curve and adjustment period. 5 straight top 20's to move up? So very few will be moving up. Very few will also be moving down. I guess this is okay if you want to make rivals and compete against the same people each week. But let's say I got 4 straight top 20's and then have one bad round and end up 71st for the 5th week. All my progress is wiped out? Doesn't seem very fair to those wishing to climb the ranks.
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Post by Doyley on Aug 29, 2018 15:37:04 GMT -5
But let's say I got 4 straight top 20's and then have one bad round and end up 71st for the 5th week. All my progress is wiped out? We're looking to move to an addition/subtraction model that was mentioned a few posts back. Would result in you starting the next week with 3 promotion marks, instead of 0. |
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279 
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Aug 29, 2018 16:27:37 GMT -5
There are pros/cons of staying on same tour and pros/cons of doing a full Q-School to start season 5 - we're discussing it behind closed doors and finding that both options will likely be split 50/50 - there's no one option that will please everyone. We'll firm up that conversation in the near future and confirm our plans going forward. I'd be all for redoing Q-school, especially for inactive players. I had worked my way up to Euro by the end of TGC1 but it became clear in the trial events for TGC2 that I was going to be killed at that level and was playing more to the level of borderline CC-Pro/CC-Am. So, instead of having my head kicked in for weeks on end to slowly work down the ranks from Euro to Web to CC, I stopped playing tour rounds. Figured my time in this game was better spent in the designer or playing casual rounds I'd actually enjoy. I definitely appreciate those who've worked hard to reach Rocher/PGA status who don't want to have to go through Q-School again on account of the new game, but it would be nice if players had the option to "risk" their card in Q-School, if they chose to do so. Maybe they move up, maybe they move down, maybe they land right back where they are, but at least they'd be playing with players of similar ability right away. Now, obviously, you may have some sandbaggers who throw Q-School to pick up some cheap wins at the lower level. I don't think there's really a way around that, but that's the rare exception and not the rule. I think the sooner people find their proper level w/ the new game, the better the playing experience will be, which will lead to greater participation on the tours. |
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Post by Koop on Aug 29, 2018 16:54:16 GMT -5
I just joined TGCtour in July. I have played in 3 tourney's thus far but was thinking of just playing 2019 exclusively, waiting for the new season. This would mean I miss the last 3 tourney's in CC-D. Will this effect me in 2019 or will I still be placed in CC-D? I am ok if I am in CC-D but also ok if the powers that be tell me to go to Q-School again. I like playing and just want to compete with players that are are my level.
Thanks for a great site and a fun place to hang out!
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Post by Doyley on Aug 29, 2018 18:12:17 GMT -5
I just joined TGCtour in July. I have played in 3 tourney's thus far but was thinking of just playing 2019 exclusively, waiting for the new season. This would mean I miss the last 3 tourney's in CC-D. Will this effect me in 2019 or will I still be placed in CC-D? I am ok if I am in CC-D but also ok if the powers that be tell me to go to Q-School again. I like playing and just want to compete with players that are are my level. Thanks for a great site and a fun place to hang out! You'll either be CC-D or have to redo depending on where we land - you're good to skip out on TGC2 if you don't want to go back. |
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twoplanetsaway
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 94
TGCT Name: Peter Jones
Tour: Euro/TST
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Post by twoplanetsaway on Aug 29, 2018 18:36:41 GMT -5
Overview
- Merge World Tour and PGA Tour - Drop Sponsor Exemptions - Slow down demotions/promotions - straight promotion system to move up tours (outlined below) Promotions/Demotions
- 5 promotion marks = promotion - 5 demotion marks = demotion Pro Tours
- Winner earns 2 promotion marks - Finish Top 10 to earn a promotion mark - Finish 120-139 to get a demotiontion mark - Finish 140+, DQ/WD to get 2 demotion marks - Miss cut to clear promo marks - Make cut to clear demotion marks Challenge Circuit
- Winner auto promoted - Finish Top 20 to earn a promotion mark - Finish 120-139 to get a demotion mark - Finish 140+, DQ/WD to get 2 demotion marks - Finish worse than 70th to clear promotion marks - Finish better than 70th to clear demotion marks Quarterly Promotion Events
- These will be used to top up tours every 3 months - They may be open to all members (outside of PGA) or be restricted to members with no strikes - Slots available for top tour will be announced prior to event - the trickle down will open up slots in lower tours - Users can take advantage and fast track up the tours with good play during these events - Participation is optional for those who meet the qualifications - Will be a special event, meaning you can play on your home tour and in this event in the same week Additional Flights
- Add a CC-F and CC-G to CC-Am - resort will likely be needed
The good:
PGA as the top tour (although with it having about 200-220 active players initially, based on numbers currently playing WT/PGA, will make it too bloated) Removal of sponsors exemptions and making it all automatic promotions - has to make the workload / number of tickets far less for the admins, and also will stop the daft situations of losing the exemption if you can't play the next week due to real life or having to choose to play your exemption or play in a major (if you qualify for both in the same week)
Addition of extra CC tiers.
The bad:
The whole new promotions and demotions - it simply won't work and is going to annoy people - both those who are trying to promote, and those who want / need to relegate - as there will be minimal chance to move up and down under this system.
Let's start with demotions - 5 strikes is correct - but they need to be kept as they are currently (missed cut (outside top 70) in the pro tours, and outside top 100 in CC) Under this proposed new system, it will be almost impossible to relegate (unless you are REALLY in the wrong tour, or deliberately sandbag, or don't finish all events) - there are very few events with much more than 120-140 players in them - the only ones are lower down the CC tiers - and they won't happen going forward as those tiers will be split to include the two extra tiers. Thus there will maybe be 10-15 players who get a demotion strike each week (and practically none who get double strikes) - to get 5 of them (ie 5 weeks at 120th+), you are going to have to be consistently terrible (for your tier) - and one 'half decent' result will clear them all! If you are consistently that bad, you should be dropping down much quicker than that - otherwise players are going to get disillusioned very quickly.
As for promotions - pro tours are losing a couple of spots (compared with current 10% exemptions - usually about top 12-14), while CC is going up a fraction (from 14 to 20) However - again - you are needing people to get 5 top 10/20's - that is going to take forever (and will be totally wiped out by one poor week - outside top 70) - it stops the possibility of players moving up several tours (to where they belong) in quick succession. I could use myself as an example (I went from Web to WT in about 6/7 weeks in June / July) or Peter Jones (went from CC-B to WT in less than 2 months) - we would still be stuck 2-4 levels below where our current form says we SHOULD be under the new system.
So the short version is: there will be minimal movement up/down the pyramid, which will annoy those who improve rapidly, but only move up extremely slowly. In turn, that will annoy everyone else who sees them in the top few spots several weeks on the spin on a lower tour - thus stopping those who are in the right tier from having a chance to do well. At the other end - just one mediocre result every few weeks will mean players can't demote to their correct level.
So I'd propose the promotion marks be reduced to 3, and the demotions to return to how they have been this season - that way, the system will work much better IMO, and actually allow regular (automated) movement between the tiers.
Well said sir. Seeing as we've had similar rises up the ranks, I wholeheartedly agree. You've done your research haha. Another alternative would be to continue placing a premium on winning a tournament at any level. It's extremely difficult. Period. The competition on this site is no joke and to win is proof that you either deserve a shot at the next level or you truly belong at the highest level if you've reached the top tour. I refuse to accept that a win = 2 top 10s. A win is a win. If you're gonna do the whole 5 promotion merits thing, 1 win should stay an auto-promotion or at least be worth 4. That way, just one more solid finish moves you up. Furthermore, the new long promotion model is completely contradictory to how you could go straight from Q-School to PGA level by obliterating a CC-A field without proving yourself at either Web or Euro level. |
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Post by itsmb8 on Aug 29, 2018 18:45:39 GMT -5
Hey guys, popping in again.
What if instead of clearing pro/demo marks, adding or subtracting instead, and after every 5-6 weeks, the x highest/lowest mark players get promoted/demoted.
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Post by coggin66 on Aug 29, 2018 19:10:32 GMT -5
I like the changes but if I'm going to play regularly again please, please mandate some variety to the conditions for each round. The new society structure seems to allow changed conditions for each round similar to the old tournaments. This is more important to me than the mechanics of promotion / demotion.
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Post by edi_vedder on Aug 29, 2018 19:25:45 GMT -5
On the PGA tour which clubs will we be able yo use?
I'm pretty sure it'll be Master clubs only.
This information is supplied without liability.
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Post by ENAGC18 on Aug 29, 2018 19:34:07 GMT -5
Sounds like the admin have done a lot of work in the background; thanks Doyley,Tim, Jeff etc.
New system sounds good particularly with the +1 / -1 option. No doubt as season 5 progresses and the Admin can see how promotions / demotions go they can tweak the system; i.e. change from 5 to 4 or 6 etc.
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MGiani719
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 96
TGCT Name: Mike Giantasio
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Post by MGiani719 on Aug 29, 2018 20:06:31 GMT -5
Just going to give my two cents.
I think promotion/demotion marks should be lowered. I think 5 is a little crazy when you’re only playing one tournament a week.
I also agree with others that if I have 4 promotion markers and finish outside the top 70 I should only lose 1. Losing all of them seems pretty silly.
I would like a chance to do Q-School with it being a new game and especially if it’s gonna take so long to get promoted.
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Post by boffo on Aug 29, 2018 20:33:40 GMT -5
I like the changes but if I'm going to play regularly again please, please mandate some variety to the conditions for each round. The new society structure seems to allow changed conditions for each round similar to the old tournaments. This is more important to me than the mechanics of promotion / demotion. Just like the old days when conditions could vary yet almost every designer made round 2 the rainy round. Ah the memories. |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Aug 30, 2018 3:27:01 GMT -5
Another alternative would be to continue placing a premium on winning a tournament at any level. It's extremely difficult. Period. The competition on this site is no joke and to win is proof that you either deserve a shot at the next level or you truly belong at the highest level if you've reached the top tour. I refuse to accept that a win = 2 top 10s. A win is a win. If you're gonna do the whole 5 promotion merits thing, 1 win should stay an auto-promotion or at least be worth 4. I'd agree with this. Perhaps 3/4 promotion marks for a W rather than automatic promotion. In reality, if you win a tournament at any level you're almost certainly good enough to play a level higher |
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