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Post by timeracer on Jul 10, 2017 21:27:05 GMT -5
I think that's what most seem to want. A game that somehow replicates their weekend hacker game. A tour player does hit perfect shots. They do take dead aim. They don't stand on a tee and aim for a 50 yard radius and hope for the best. Tour clubs should be able to be hit perfectly and it should be repeatable if we're trying to replicate the way a tour player plays. A quick look at PGA driving accuracy stats has Steve Stricker at the top with 74%, the player at the bottom of the list has an accuracy of 44%. It's a fallacy to think these guys hit dead straight with every single shot. linkNot saying it should be dead straight every shot, but IMO they've went too far the other way. But again, no tour pro is standing on the tee hoping for the best. Which is exactly the situation here unless you happen to have a controller that is capable of hitting the razor thin margins of error. |
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Post by colgreenshields on Jul 10, 2017 21:49:06 GMT -5
A quick look at PGA driving accuracy stats has Steve Stricker at the top with 74%, the player at the bottom of the list has an accuracy of 44%. It's a fallacy to think these guys hit dead straight with every single shot. linkNot saying it should be dead straight every shot, but IMO they've went too far the other way. But again, no tour pro is standing on the tee hoping for the best. Which is exactly the situation here unless you happen to have a controller that is capable of hitting the razor thin margins of error. Have a look at your driving accuracy stats though....anywhere between 44-75% is representative of a tour pro. I think we've all just become too accustomed to hitting the ball to an unrealistic degree of accuracy in golf games over the years. This game is far from perfect but IMO tour clubs gives us what I thought we all craved for the last 3 years - variety and uncertainty. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 21:53:00 GMT -5
The difference is fair uncertainty.
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Post by mattco on Jul 10, 2017 22:12:26 GMT -5
Not saying it should be dead straight every shot, but IMO they've went too far the other way. But again, no tour pro is standing on the tee hoping for the best. Which is exactly the situation here unless you happen to have a controller that is capable of hitting the razor thin margins of error. Have a look at your driving accuracy stats though....anywhere between 44-75% is representative of a tour pro. I think we've all just become too accustomed to hitting the ball to an unrealistic degree of accuracy in golf games over the years. This game is far from perfect but IMO tour clubs gives us what I thought we all craved for the last 3 years - variety and uncertainty. |
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Post by timeracer on Jul 10, 2017 22:25:14 GMT -5
Not saying it should be dead straight every shot, but IMO they've went too far the other way. But again, no tour pro is standing on the tee hoping for the best. Which is exactly the situation here unless you happen to have a controller that is capable of hitting the razor thin margins of error. Have a look at your driving accuracy stats though....anywhere between 44-75% is representative of a tour pro. I think we've all just become too accustomed to hitting the ball to an unrealistic degree of accuracy in golf games over the years. This game is far from perfect but IMO tour clubs gives us what I thought we all craved for the last 3 years - variety and uncertainty. I would say it's given some what they crave, while others who I suspect are the majority of the larger player pool probably feel differently. And you're just talking about the driver. Can't hit a wedge any more accurately than the driver in this version with the very same pad I used throughout my tour play in TGC1. Personally, for me what attracted me to these tours was competition that was fairly balanced. Not some need to replicate anyone's idea of what was "realistic". |
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Post by colgreenshields on Jul 10, 2017 22:28:34 GMT -5
The difference is fair uncertainty. Are you playing on PS4 Roy? Certainly seems to be a lot of issues with consoles. |
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Post by mattco on Jul 10, 2017 22:29:24 GMT -5
I think people are getting caught up on single issues rather than a holistic view. Fair cop on the driving percentages, but is the ball virtually unplayable on off centre drives everytime as a result, no. I take on a fairway bunker, under hit it, in I go, that's fair. Automatic bogey, unrealstic (exceptions being the odd plugged lie, up against the lip etc.) Hitting a 7 iron nearly as difficult as a driver, absolutely not. Should I be able to hit a 3i out of a heavy lie, never. Same goes for thinking hitting flop shots out of heavy rough is reasonable, one of the most dangerous shots in golf. Point being I feel as though my expectations are not being met across a range of issues however am trying to demonstrate level headed thinking in this. I also feel qualified in these comments, given tgc2 has been promoted as a golf simulation and I maintained an a RL A grade handicap for 15 years. Was not a scratch marker, but could play a bit. Certainly never had the tempo or accuracy issues I've seen with tour clubs (yes we all hit the odd nightmare shot and have the 'I'm never playing again' round, but not 6 or 7 rounds running). I love the idea behind it, but so much needs to be done for it to be workable.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 22:34:02 GMT -5
The difference is fair uncertainty. Are you playing on PS4 Roy? Certainly seems to be a lot of issues with consoles. yes. It's a shame |
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Post by colgreenshields on Jul 10, 2017 22:44:06 GMT -5
Have a look at your driving accuracy stats though....anywhere between 44-75% is representative of a tour pro. I think we've all just become too accustomed to hitting the ball to an unrealistic degree of accuracy in golf games over the years. This game is far from perfect but IMO tour clubs gives us what I thought we all craved for the last 3 years - variety and uncertainty. I would say it's given some what they crave, while others who I suspect are the majority of the larger player pool probably feel differently. And you're just talking about the driver. Can't hit a wedge any more accurately than the driver in this version with the very same pad I used throughout my tour play in TGC1. Personally, for me what attracted me to these tours was competition that was fairly balanced. Not some need to replicate anyone's idea of what was "realistic". I thought the vast majority were sick of the dialled in shots, the unrealistic lofting options to achieve said dialled in shots and the fact that the game was basically an exercise in arithmetic. Fairly balanced competition IS an attraction of these tours, which can only be achieved if everyone is playing under the same conditions and difficulty settings. Regarding shot accuracy, I have found that around 95% of my shots have a draw or, in many cases, a hook. And that's with all clubs, although I will say that the driver is the most unforgiving (as it should be) I play to try and compensate for that, sometimes it comes off sometimes not, but the experience is way more rewarding than anything TGC 1 could offer. I don't see what is wrong with having separate tours for players and tour clubs, I don't think it's possible to have a balanced competition otherwise. I also think the vast majority of people having issues with the tour swing are console players, perhaps once HB sorts out the issues things will settle down and become more playable. |
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Post by therayaka on Jul 10, 2017 22:49:47 GMT -5
I'm crap at hitting it straight, so that doesn't come into what I'm saying. I want that to be in a level playing field if I'm playing in a tournament, just as it has been for 3 years. I understand that but one of the major reasons why we have tgc 2 and not just tgc 1 with a big update was because they wanted to offer these options to people to use. Sounds like what u wanted was to just stay on tgc 1 where everyone hits the same shots with the same clubs, With an added incentive of hitting straight and massively penalizing shots that are not. I'd have no interest in that myself. I don't see how it's not a level playing field either. Nobody can use anything that rest of us can't. The choice of clubs should be up to each individual player. Smurf, it seems what people want is for everyone to use the same clubs and then complain that other's are cheating when their scores don't match the top players. People will always complain and make excuses no matter what clubs they are allowed to use, so at least give them the freedom to choose our own clubs. |
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Post by timeracer on Jul 10, 2017 23:13:59 GMT -5
I would say it's given some what they crave, while others who I suspect are the majority of the larger player pool probably feel differently. And you're just talking about the driver. Can't hit a wedge any more accurately than the driver in this version with the very same pad I used throughout my tour play in TGC1. Personally, for me what attracted me to these tours was competition that was fairly balanced. Not some need to replicate anyone's idea of what was "realistic". I thought the vast majority were sick of the dialled in shots, the unrealistic lofting options to achieve said dialled in shots and the fact that the game was basically an exercise in arithmetic. Fairly balanced competition IS an attraction of these tours, which can only be achieved if everyone is playing under the same conditions and difficulty settings. Regarding shot accuracy, I have found that around 95% of my shots have a draw or, in many cases, a hook. And that's with all clubs, although I will say that the driver is the most unforgiving (as it should be) I play to try and compensate for that, sometimes it comes off sometimes not, but the experience is way more rewarding than anything TGC 1 could offer. I don't see what is wrong with having separate tours for players and tour clubs, I don't think it's possible to have a balanced competition otherwise. I also think the vast majority of people having issues with the tour swing are console players, perhaps once HB sorts out the issues things will settle down and become more playable. Maybe the vast majority of the forum posters wanted this feeling of uncertainty in everything. But they are rarely representative of the larger player pool in any game in any genre. If they'd have just left the up/down swing sensitivity as it was and added the tempo I think everyone would have been happy. I hated all the math. It's one of the reasons I got burned out playing the game and was looking forward to the new one. Did my head in round after round. But, Even real golf in the real world is a game of physics, so without going to random landings there's no real way to completely remove it. I think they have done about as good a job as they could do in minimizing the math. My concern about balance is all about the huge differences in swings the different controllers and different platforms are producing creating a wide gap in balance. Which removes any sense of real competition that could be had. At least in TGC1 you knew that no one was getting any real advantage based on platform or controller. No idea how one could look at current state of game and think things will be balanced. If I've read right, what's being debated here was the exact fear of one of the former HB devs when the idea of different club sets was hatched. Add to that a swing system that is so loose that half the players are searching for controller answers. I don't envy the guys in charge of these tours right now. I personally don't see any way with the game in its current state to ensure a near level playing field on tour. |
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 11, 2017 1:35:31 GMT -5
Spraying wedges is a bit annoying. Nothing against the very fast shocker but the dispersion from cone side to side could be toned down, or tuned into more distance than side to side dispersion.
That would be a good system - dispersion on mis-hits moving gradually from mostly right left to mostly long short the shorter the club.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 1:38:37 GMT -5
To me this all comes down to one problem: with Tour clubs you can make ten identical swings and get seven different outcomes. That's what is making people nuts right now and making Player clubs a very attractive prospect.
The heavy rough and sand are so unrealistically penal in this game, so why should it come down to a random 30-yard miss putting you in some crazy spots and making a 10?
Everything is inflated it seems. I'm all for a golf game being difficult, for par being a good score and birdie being a great score, but when I see score cards with 5 birdies, 2 pars and an 8 and a 10 on nine holes, that makes no sense, and it's strictly caused by the inconsistencies of the swing and the overly penal lies outside of the fairway.
For a lot of people caught up in this debate we're not talking about the game being a bit harder and making some bogies here and there. We're talking about a lot of good TGC1 players making 8s, 9s, and 10s a couple times per tournament. That's not harder, that's just infuriating.
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Post by colgreenshields on Jul 11, 2017 2:43:54 GMT -5
Spraying wedges is a bit annoying. Nothing against the very fast shocker but the dispersion from cone side to side could be toned down, or tuned into more distance than side to side dispersion. That would be a good system - dispersion on mis-hits moving gradually from mostly right left to mostly long short the shorter the club. Yea, I think that's a good call. |
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Post by colgreenshields on Jul 11, 2017 2:52:58 GMT -5
To me this all comes down to one problem: with Tour clubs you can make ten identical swings and get seven different outcomes. That's what is making people nuts right now and making Player clubs a very attractive prospect. The heavy rough and sand are so unrealistically penal in this game, so why should it come down to a random 30-yard miss putting you in some crazy spots and making a 10? Everything is inflated it seems. I'm all for a golf game being difficult, for par being a good score and birdie being a great score, but when I see score cards with 5 birdies, 2 pars and an 8 and a 10 on nine holes, that makes no sense, and it's strictly caused by the inconsistencies of the swing and the overly penal lies outside of the fairway. For a lot of people caught up in this debate we're not talking about the game being a bit harder and making some bogies here and there. We're talking about a lot of good TGC1 players making 8s, 9s, and 10s a couple times per tournament. That's not harder, that's just infuriating. It would seem that from everything being said the game is suffering big time on the consoles. I'm sure through time that things will settle down and we'll have a good game consistent across all platforms. On the PC just when I feel that I'm in the groove and hitting the ball consistently within the cone, I'll hit a big hook, then another and i'm then re-adjusting the controller. I rarely feel that the game cheated me though, I can usually reconcile what I did during the swing to produce the errant shot. |
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