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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:58:12 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. CC players could stay as 'amateurs'. It would simply mean renaming each tier. CC-A would become amateur elite. They could play a college schedule or something?? There would be no need for them to be forced onto tour (or professional) ranks. It's the only solution I can see for people competing equally. |
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Post by KenTremendous on Jun 29, 2017 8:04:46 GMT -5
Ever get the feeling a debate could run and run for ever?
Whatever the powers that be decide, its going to alienate a lot of people - harsh choice.
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Jun 29, 2017 8:05:10 GMT -5
The amount of 2 cents been thrown in here will make a nice nest egg for Doyleys summer holiday.. Do they have summer in Canada or is it miserable all year around ? I digress...........
After days of consideration heres my 2 cents on a matter that may be mute if swings can't be locked.
Smurf Tour / Euro : locked to Tour Clubs
Web.com : Not allowed to use standard
CC : Use playground swing, Sultans of Swing , East Coast Swing , West Coast swing or even a Carolina Shag apparently thats a type of swing.
Now apart from getting Doyley 2 cent closer to that campervan trip to a frozen lake my opinion has done nothing.
We have no clue what STJ (scott,Tim,Jeff) can do or will do or if we will be involved via a poll or anything. I am sure when we get there in 3 weeks they will make a decision half the forum will say nothing the other half will call them a shower of c
andians and we will blame Smurf itll blow over.
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Jun 29, 2017 8:06:42 GMT -5
Ever get the feeling a debate could run and run for ever? Whatever the powers that be decide, its going to alienate a lot of people - harsh choice. Thats what I meant but with more waffle |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 8:10:15 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. Brian, it's not that the player clubs are too strong (they're the exact same distances as TGC 1 but now with a harder game) but that the tour clubs don't give enough benefit to using them. Look at the driver chart Standard - 240 Player - 265 Tour - 279 IMO, keeping things equal, tour clubs should be 290 off the tee. I don't see how this wasn't even a done deal and am totally baffled at the reasoning behind tour clubs being so terribly nerfed in distance while being so terribly punished in accuracy. In that respect, I think this should have been thought out a bit more. Bottom Line: For 14 lousy more yards, where is my incentive to use Tour Clubs? Also, TGC 2, even without the different clubs, is still not TGC 1 even if you play Player Clubs. Chipping is a whole new can of worms. The 9 iron loft a mile to the sky shot is gone. You really have to learn how to chip now. So the game around the green has changed immensely and is going to penalize a lot of the lofters a ton as it is. With a game that, as I said in my video review, has been "sufficiently" made more difficult, why do we have to make it even harder by forcing players to use a certain kind of club if they want to play in the pros? In the real PGA, you have players who hit the ball 300 yards and you have players who don't. So why are we forcing the issue here? Look, the guys who use Tour Clubs and master them are going to have an advantage over players who use Player Clubs. Granted, not a big enough advantage and hopefully that'll be adjusted over time. But to tell somebody who has been on the tour for 6 months struggling to make it to the pros and FINALLY gets that exemption, "Um, sorry dude. But you're gonna have to play that exemption using Tour Clubs or you'll have to stay in Web" is ridiculous. We might as well just make TGC Tours from PGA down to CC-Z mandatory Tour Clubs. Because unless you're on them, should PGA/Euro force the issue, nobody stands a chance on Player or Standard clubs. Wanna see this place crash and burn? Force people to use Tour Clubs. Anyway, it ain't up to me and I'm happy as heck it isn't because this is one headache I don't need. Good luck to the admins sorting this one out. I don't envy you in the least. |
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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 29, 2017 8:12:07 GMT -5
Again, the issue is one in terms of balance. Maybe everyone on the PGA should have to play the Standard clubs. Sounds ridiculous, right? We're playing courses designed around player clubs, and are surprised that the game is easier with Player clubs. Player clubs need to be made a bit riskier and a bit less straight and we'll be fine. It's not a fair comparison as the top players on the top tours should use the most difficult swing. That is of course just my opinion.
What will change about the courses aside from length that would make courses suited to the Tour swing? And even when the courses are lengthened, at what point does it truly differentiate the tour clubs from the players clubs, 8000, 8300? Do you want to make it so unless you use Tour clubs you can't even reach the green on approach without a 3W or not even be able to reach at all on Par 5's and some Par 4's? If the courses at the top level tours are going to force people to use Tour clubs or not be able to compete, why not just mandate Tour clubs?
I honestly think that courses will not be made at some stupid length and approaches using Players clubs at worst will call on a 3/4/5 iron in which is very doable to a good player with little consequence of risk. I don't think HB is going to mess with the swing difficulties and what we have now is what we will have.
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Post by mrohde4 on Jun 29, 2017 8:13:11 GMT -5
Maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves. The game has been released for three days. With more rounds, players will all improve and it's possible the variance gap between player and tour clubs won't be as wide as predicted.
Players new to the game (who never played 1) might have a shorter learning period than in 1 because the only important number in 2 is the carry distance. There's also a driving range for countless reps, plus the practice swing mode. The game is truly about executing a swing, and with more time, perhaps the tour swing won't be as daunting.
I still believe tour only in top tours but I also predict we'll reach a point with courses where player clubs become a detriment rather than benefit.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Jun 29, 2017 8:18:42 GMT -5
Amazingly, I agree with @wagtunes on one thing
If the Tour clubs had 300+ carry and the Players 250, this would be a very different discussion.
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Jun 29, 2017 8:19:27 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. Brian, it's not that the player clubs are too strong (they're the exact same distances as TGC 1 but now with a harder game) but that the tour clubs don't give enough benefit to using them. Look at the driver chart Standard - 240 Player - 265 Tour - 279 IMO, keeping things equal, tour clubs should be 290 off the tee. I don't see how this wasn't even a done deal and am totally baffled at the reasoning behind tour clubs being so terribly nerfed in distance while being so terribly punished in accuracy. In that respect, I think this should have been thought out a bit more. Bottom Line: For 14 lousy more yards, where is my incentive to use Tour Clubs? Also, TGC 2, even without the different clubs, is still not TGC 1 even if you play Player Clubs. Chipping is a whole new can of worms. The 9 iron loft a mile to the sky shot is gone. You really have to learn how to chip now. So the game around the green has changed immensely and is going to penalize a lot of the lofters a ton as it is. With a game that, as I said in my video review, has been "sufficiently" made more difficult, why do we have to make it even harder by forcing players to use a certain kind of club if they want to play in the pros? In the real PGA, you have players who hit the ball 300 yards and you have players who don't. So why are we forcing the issue here? Look, the guys who use Tour Clubs and master them are going to have an advantage over players who use Player Clubs. Granted, not a big enough advantage and hopefully that'll be adjusted over time. But to tell somebody who has been on the tour for 6 months struggling to make it to the pros and FINALLY gets that exemption, "Um, sorry dude. But you're gonna have to play that exemption using Tour Clubs or you'll have to stay in Web" is ridiculous. We might as well just make TGC Tours from PGA down to CC-Z mandatory Tour Clubs. Because unless you're on them, should PGA/Euro force the issue, nobody stands a chance on Player or Standard clubs. Wanna see this place crash and burn? Force people to use Tour Clubs. Anyway, it ain't up to me and I'm happy as heck it isn't because this is one headache I don't need. Good luck to the admins sorting this one out. I don't envy you in the least. This place won't crash and burn Wags either way its going to lose members Personally i want to use the hardest set to make the game harder and more real. I don't fancy getting slapped about with a Sweenis week in and out and missing cuts because of this porridge is to hot brigade. Suck it up and if you can't theres other tours to play. Again another 2 cents for Doyley and probably reinforcing a mute point. |
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Jun 29, 2017 8:23:38 GMT -5
Amazingly, I agree with @wagtunes
If the Tour clubs had 300+ carry and the Players 250, this would be a very different discussion. Actually I do agree with Jack and Wags on this particular point the tour Driver IMO should be a minimum of 290y and scaled down from there. 290 tour 260 player 235 standard something to that effect but it isnt. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 8:35:51 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. Brian, it's not that the player clubs are too strong (they're the exact same distances as TGC 1 but now with a harder game) but that the tour clubs don't give enough benefit to using them. Look at the driver chart Standard - 240 Player - 265 Tour - 279 IMO, keeping things equal, tour clubs should be 290 off the tee. I don't see how this wasn't even a done deal and am totally baffled at the reasoning behind tour clubs being so terribly nerfed in distance while being so terribly punished in accuracy. In that respect, I think this should have been thought out a bit more. Bottom Line: For 14 lousy more yards, where is my incentive to use Tour Clubs? Also, TGC 2, even without the different clubs, is still not TGC 1 even if you play Player Clubs. Chipping is a whole new can of worms. The 9 iron loft a mile to the sky shot is gone. You really have to learn how to chip now. So the game around the green has changed immensely and is going to penalize a lot of the lofters a ton as it is. With a game that, as I said in my video review, has been "sufficiently" made more difficult, why do we have to make it even harder by forcing players to use a certain kind of club if they want to play in the pros? In the real PGA, you have players who hit the ball 300 yards and you have players who don't. So why are we forcing the issue here? Look, the guys who use Tour Clubs and master them are going to have an advantage over players who use Player Clubs. Granted, not a big enough advantage and hopefully that'll be adjusted over time. But to tell somebody who has been on the tour for 6 months struggling to make it to the pros and FINALLY gets that exemption, "Um, sorry dude. But you're gonna have to play that exemption using Tour Clubs or you'll have to stay in Web" is ridiculous. We might as well just make TGC Tours from PGA down to CC-Z mandatory Tour Clubs. Because unless you're on them, should PGA/Euro force the issue, nobody stands a chance on Player or Standard clubs. Wanna see this place crash and burn? Force people to use Tour Clubs. Anyway, it ain't up to me and I'm happy as heck it isn't because this is one headache I don't need. Good luck to the admins sorting this one out. I don't envy you in the least. The swing modes are way too different to be intermixed I think you'll find masses of tour club players leaving tgctours if they feel it's an unfair playing field. People are gonna prefer playing different club difficulties it's obvious even this early. If HBS start messing with swing difficulty now by making player clubs harder or tour clubs easier they're gonna p*** off a lot of people who are enjoying the clubs the way they are now. A realistic thing to do would be to start anew with 2 separate tour structure for tgctours for each swing |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jun 29, 2017 8:39:10 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. Brian, it's not that the player clubs are too strong (they're the exact same distances as TGC 1 but now with a harder game) but that the tour clubs don't give enough benefit to using them. Look at the driver chart Standard - 240 Player - 265 Tour - 279 IMO, keeping things equal, tour clubs should be 290 off the tee. I don't see how this wasn't even a done deal and am totally baffled at the reasoning behind tour clubs being so terribly nerfed in distance while being so terribly punished in accuracy. In that respect, I think this should have been thought out a bit more. Bottom Line: For 14 lousy more yards, where is my incentive to use Tour Clubs? Also, TGC 2, even without the different clubs, is still not TGC 1 even if you play Player Clubs. Chipping is a whole new can of worms. The 9 iron loft a mile to the sky shot is gone. You really have to learn how to chip now. So the game around the green has changed immensely and is going to penalize a lot of the lofters a ton as it is. With a game that, as I said in my video review, has been "sufficiently" made more difficult, why do we have to make it even harder by forcing players to use a certain kind of club if they want to play in the pros? In the real PGA, you have players who hit the ball 300 yards and you have players who don't. So why are we forcing the issue here? Look, the guys who use Tour Clubs and master them are going to have an advantage over players who use Player Clubs. Granted, not a big enough advantage and hopefully that'll be adjusted over time. But to tell somebody who has been on the tour for 6 months struggling to make it to the pros and FINALLY gets that exemption, "Um, sorry dude. But you're gonna have to play that exemption using Tour Clubs or you'll have to stay in Web" is ridiculous. We might as well just make TGC Tours from PGA down to CC-Z mandatory Tour Clubs. Because unless you're on them, should PGA/Euro force the issue, nobody stands a chance on Player or Standard clubs. Wanna see this place crash and burn? Force people to use Tour Clubs. Anyway, it ain't up to me and I'm happy as heck it isn't because this is one headache I don't need. Good luck to the admins sorting this one out. I don't envy you in the least. I agree with you. But I'd rather nerf the player clubs than buff the tour clubs. Having said that I haven't even took 1 shot yet, my opinions are only on what I've seen and heard so it's all subject to change. |
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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 29, 2017 8:40:14 GMT -5
Amazingly, I agree with @wagtunes
If the Tour clubs had 300+ carry and the Players 250, this would be a very different discussion. Actually I do agree with Jack and Wags on this particular point the tour Driver IMO should be a minimum of 290y and scaled down from there. 290 tour 260 player 235 standard something to that effect but it isnt. Honestly I probably average over 300 yard drives, up to even 325, with Tour swing including roll out (unless it is a crazy wind). I am not sure what Players clubs do but maybe they don't have as much roll out which would further the distance gap. |
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Post by yyzleafs on Jun 29, 2017 8:40:16 GMT -5
I don't know what nerf of buff means
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 8:41:56 GMT -5
Amazingly, I agree with @wagtunes
If the Tour clubs had 300+ carry and the Players 250, this would be a very different discussion. Actually I do agree with Jack and Wags on this particular point the tour Driver IMO should be a minimum of 290y and scaled down from there. 290 tour 260 player 235 standard something to that effect but it isnt. Moe, because of the way courses have been designed (you still have to allow for TGC 1 port overs) it should be like this. 295 Tour 265 Player 240 Standard You would end up with a lot of people on Standard forcing themselves to learn the tour clubs because of the massive advantage in distance. Right now, the incentive is zero. Literally zero. What's 14 yards going to give me? I'm still baffled at this decision. But force players to use Tour clubs with the way things are now, you might as well close this place down. Few, if any players from Web, will make it up to the PGA/Euro Tour. You'll end up with a stagnant player base up there. In the meantime, those that absolutely can't even make it up there, let alone compete, will eventually grow tired of beating around in Web and quit. The CC guys, ironically, will have the best time. No pressure but the thrill of climbing up the CC ladder playing any club they wish. They will enjoy the game more than anybody else. Personally, I'm looking forward to joining them if I'm forced to use Tour Clubs, which I am now using anyway because I find them more challenging and make the game more rewarding. But no way in hell do I compete with them at this level. They might as well just grant my demotion request (which I've yet to put in) now. My record (8 straight missed cuts) certainly justifies being sent back down to Web because I absolutely don't belong here. On Tour Clubs, that'll be the final nail in the coffin. |
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