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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:15:49 GMT -5
Would it be ridiculous to suggest that the guys using player clubs are 'amateurs' and play a tour seperate from the guys using tour clubs? Seperate the ranking into Pro (euro, PGA and Web), and the current CC Tours being used as the amateur ranks with their own rankings?
Just my 2 cents
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:16:53 GMT -5
Having had some experience with the game. The fact is that if we were to use Player clubs on the PGA or European Tour, then we would just be playing TGC1 IMO, what's the point in that? They go the same distance and scoring is about the same. I played in many tournaments during the beta, the top players that used Player clubs would basically lap the field. The other top players that were using Tour clubs, would be a mile behind because of the lack of absolute control and confidence that you get with the player clubs in comparison. The exciting thing for me is, if we were to use Tour clubs only, this farcical TGC1 scoring would be taken down a peg or 2 and genuine risk/reward would come into the game. Don't get me wrong, you can still shoot lights out with Tour clubs, especially on the easier setups. But you need to be consistent with the swing. It's way more rewarding and fun, playing with the with the knowledge that a disaster is just around the corner if you're not concentrating properly, or make a bad swing or decision. I guess that we'll play a few non official tournaments to iron out balancing, and see which direction that we're going to go? Personally, I don't believe that I would play on TGC Tours if people are using clubs that have training wheels on, when I'm using Tour clubs. Give it a few weeks and we'll see what everybody thinks, having had the time to get to know the game. Then we can all discuss where we should go regarding club choice. Now is too early to be sure. Bradley, I respect you as much as any player in the game. What you've accomplished is nothing short of amazing. But let me ask you a question. What is someone in the PGA/Euro to do if they absolutely can't hit a ball straight with Tour Clubs no matter how hard they try? Quit? Because that's what's going to happen. Do you really want to start alienating players right out of the gate? Also, and this is just my opinion, the distance advantage with Tour Clubs just isn't great enough to justify using them. 279 yards vs 265 yards for a driver? 14 lousy yards? Seriously? That's it? I was stunned when I saw how little difference there is considering between Standard and Player is 25 yards. I was expecting at least 290 yards off the drive. So where exactly is my incentive to use Tour Clubs given how little benefit they give, especially when factoring in the increased difficulty? Don't get me wrong. Even though in my video review I said I wasn't going to even try Tour Clubs, I have moved up to them. I find them more challenging and, in a kind of warped way, more fun. Hitting a great shot really makes you feel great. But there is no way I'll be able to compete up here using them, not that I'm competing up here on TGC 1. So in all honesty, for me personally, I don't care what we use. If it's forced Tour Clubs for PGA/Euro, eh, I can live with that. But then we come to another problem and it's the bigger problem. Something I'm sure nobody has given any though to. If we make Tour Clubs mandatory for PGA/Euro and optional for everybody else, what happens to the guy who comes out of Q School starting in CC-E because he absolutely sucks at this game even with Standard Clubs and finally, after months of hard work and even moving up to Player Clubs, finally makes it to the PGA? What are you going to tell this poor sap whose been using Player Clubs for maybe a half a year or more? That all of a sudden he has to use Tour Clubs or the card he just earned he can't play? Or better yet. He gets an exemption from Web to PGA, has never used Tour Clubs and now you tell him because he's playing a PGA event that he has to play his exemption using Tour Clubs? You may never get another promotion to the Pro Tours ever again unless they're players who played Tour Clubs from the beginning. So, between the people in the PGA who can't handle Tour Clubs and the people trying to get in who can't handle Tour Clubs, you'll essentially turn the pro tours into an elite squad. In essence, you'll end up with maybe 100 guys playing in the top tours. I sure won't be in them anymore. But then again I'm gonna be demoted when the season ends anyway so I don't really care. You make club use mandatory and you're opening up a can of worms that you really don't want to open which will ultimately lead to losing a lot of members. You can quote me on this when, if we go to mandatory Tour Clubs, it actually happens and membership falls through the floor. I Agree with what your saying, I only play on the TST. The pro tour doesn't have be an elite tour if you had 2 seperate tours.I understand some people are not gonna get on with tour clubs so why not play a tour for player clubs. Why do they have to be linked. Would be interesting to see how many play in each one |
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Post by paulus on Jun 29, 2017 7:17:19 GMT -5
The objection from wagtunes and the others that have voiced it is totally valid. But I also think it's valid to expect Elite players to play under Elite conditions - so yes if you want to move up to the Elite tour level, you must learn Tour clubs - seems a reasonable stance to me.
However - this is a subjective opinion on both sides of the argument - there is no absolute truth.
The fall off in membership is also a valid concern - and the part that gives me most pause for sure. But it should only affect those players who are good enough to reach Euro/PGA and do not want to be forced to use Tour clubs - so perhaps not as great as one might think at first glance?
What's needed next probably is a poll - "Would you quit the tgctours if PGA/Euro was forced mandatory Tour clubs or would you be happy to demote to Web to continue to play Players clubs".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:18:40 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood me. I meant... PGA/Euro tournaments are setup to play from the back tees Web.com tournaments are setup to play for the middle tees. CC tournaments are setup to play from the forward tees. Yourself As a stats fan Luke, I thought you'd be buzzing to get your hands on tour clubs. Much more realistic FIR's,GIR's scrambling and so on compared to player clubs Yeah I'm buzzing. My thoughts are though that the tees we play should mean that the longer the course the more important it is to move up in club distance. You can get away playing the forward tees in the CC with easier clubs but try that on the European Tour and you will be at a huge disadvantage from the back tees. Doesn't mean we should limit people that want to compete with less distance though. I also agree with Waggy. The gap difference is smaller between player/Tour than player/standard and by the sounds of it much bigger in difficulty. Bizarre. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:31:42 GMT -5
Yourself As a stats fan Luke, I thought you'd be buzzing to get your hands on tour clubs. Much more realistic FIR's,GIR's scrambling and so on compared to player clubs Yeah I'm buzzing. My thoughts are though that the tees we play should mean that the longer the course the more important it is to move up in club distance. You can get away playing the forward tees in the CC with easier clubs but try that on the European Tour and you will be at a huge disadvantage from the back tees. Doesn't mean we should limit people that want to compete with less distance though. I also agree with Waggy. The gap difference is smaller between player/Tour than player/standard and by the sounds of it much bigger in difficulty. Bizarre. As a true sim tour players here we we want to be playing real course recreations not unrealistically long versions of them. Designers can make realistic courses with out having to trick them up now. No pro golfer consistently hits it straight and tour clubs have that feel that you're never certain where you're gonna hit it. Had a terrible first round to our TST society tournament was 5 over after 9 but really got my swing together on the back 9 by hitting 2 under for the back 9. Tour clubs are very playable and fair imo |
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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 29, 2017 7:35:57 GMT -5
Using the tour clubs in the game makes the video game harder than real actual golf I'm just curious if you play golf IRL. That statement leads me to believe you do not. |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jun 29, 2017 7:38:16 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use.
Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:40:24 GMT -5
Using the tour clubs in the game makes the video game harder than real actual golf I'm just curious if you play golf IRL. That statement leads me to believe you do not. I'd struggle to break 80 in the game if it is harder than real golf😉 |
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Post by yyzleafs on Jun 29, 2017 7:41:04 GMT -5
Using the tour clubs in the game makes the video game harder than real actual golf I'm just curious if you play golf IRL. That statement leads me to believe you do not. If I find real golf easier than the tour clubs, that should probably mean that I play, and play quite well |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:43:22 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. You will also have the scenario of people who prefer tour clubs having to play player clubs to have a chance of getting promoted to a higher tour |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jun 29, 2017 7:45:02 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. You will also have the scenario of people who prefer tour clubs having to play player clubs to have a chance of getting promoted to a higher tour True or maybe for all CC tiers the option could be left open for players to use any swing . |
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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 29, 2017 7:45:37 GMT -5
Having had some experience with the game. The fact is that if we were to use Player clubs on the PGA or European Tour, then we would just be playing TGC1 IMO, what's the point in that? They go the same distance and scoring is about the same. I played in many tournaments during the beta, the top players that used Player clubs would basically lap the field. The other top players that were using Tour clubs, would be a mile behind because of the lack of absolute control and confidence that you get with the player clubs in comparison. The exciting thing for me is, if we were to use Tour clubs only, this farcical TGC1 scoring would be taken down a peg or 2 and genuine risk/reward would come into the game. Don't get me wrong, you can still shoot lights out with Tour clubs, especially on the easier setups. But you need to be consistent with the swing. It's way more rewarding and fun, playing with the with the knowledge that a disaster is just around the corner if you're not concentrating properly, or make a bad swing or decision. I guess that we'll play a few non official tournaments to iron out balancing, and see which direction that we're going to go? Personally, I don't believe that I would play on TGC Tours if people are using clubs that have training wheels on, when I'm using Tour clubs. Give it a few weeks and we'll see what everybody thinks, having had the time to get to know the game. Then we can all discuss where we should go regarding club choice. Now is too early to be sure. Bradley, I respect you as much as any player in the game. What you've accomplished is nothing short of amazing. But let me ask you a question. What is someone in the PGA/Euro to do if they absolutely can't hit a ball straight with Tour Clubs no matter how hard they try? Quit? Because that's what's going to happen. Do you really want to start alienating players right out of the gate? Also, and this is just my opinion, the distance advantage with Tour Clubs just isn't great enough to justify using them. 279 yards vs 265 yards for a driver? 14 lousy yards? Seriously? That's it? I was stunned when I saw how little difference there is considering between Standard and Player is 25 yards. I was expecting at least 290 yards off the drive. So where exactly is my incentive to use Tour Clubs given how little benefit they give, especially when factoring in the increased difficulty?Don't get me wrong. Even though in my video review I said I wasn't going to even try Tour Clubs, I have moved up to them. I find them more challenging and, in a kind of warped way, more fun. Hitting a great shot really makes you feel great. But there is no way I'll be able to compete up here using them, not that I'm competing up here on TGC 1. So in all honesty, for me personally, I don't care what we use. If it's forced Tour Clubs for PGA/Euro, eh, I can live with that. But then we come to another problem and it's the bigger problem. Something I'm sure nobody has given any though to. If we make Tour Clubs mandatory for PGA/Euro and optional for everybody else, what happens to the guy who comes out of Q School starting in CC-E because he absolutely sucks at this game even with Standard Clubs and finally, after months of hard work and even moving up to Player Clubs, finally makes it to the PGA? What are you going to tell this poor sap whose been using Player Clubs for maybe a half a year or more? That all of a sudden he has to use Tour Clubs or the card he just earned he can't play? Or better yet. He gets an exemption from Web to PGA, has never used Tour Clubs and now you tell him because he's playing a PGA event that he has to play his exemption using Tour Clubs? You may never get another promotion to the Pro Tours ever again unless they're players who played Tour Clubs from the beginning. So, between the people in the PGA who can't handle Tour Clubs and the people trying to get in who can't handle Tour Clubs, you'll essentially turn the pro tours into an elite squad. In essence, you'll end up with maybe 100 guys playing in the top tours. I sure won't be in them anymore. But then again I'm gonna be demoted when the season ends anyway so I don't really care. You make club use mandatory and you're opening up a can of worms that you really don't want to open which will ultimately lead to losing a lot of members. You can quote me on this when, if we go to mandatory Tour Clubs, it actually happens and membership falls through the floor. I think this is exactly the point. For those "Pros" that want the feel of SIM golf using Tour clubs, why would they want to compete on a tour against other "Pros" using an easier swing difficulty with that little difference?
I think you may get just as many that would not play if people are allowed to use Player clubs. For everyone who played on TGC1 who asked for game difficulty and more shot and scoring variance, it kinda baffles me why they wouldn't use Tour clubs.
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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 29, 2017 7:47:43 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. But shouldn't they have to struggle or at least practice in order to compete on a higher level? It's not like they will be using a completely different swing. Their tempo and straightness just has to be consistently better, i.e. they have to be a better video game golf player. |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jun 29, 2017 7:50:43 GMT -5
A problem with euro/smurf tour/web using tour swing and tiers below not is all CC players will massively struggle when coming up to Web on exemption as they will be forced to use a swing difficulty that they probably never use. Iv come around to the idea that we should all use Tour swing as it seems the Player clubs are too strong and not balanced from what I have read and seen. But shouldn't they have to struggle or at least practice in order to compete on a higher level? It's not like they will be using a completely different swing. Their tempo and straightness just has to be consistently better, i.e. they have to be a better video game golf player. Yes but the problem is they have 1 week to play their exemption on the web. That's hardly enough time to learn how to deal with the tour clubs given what looks like a big difference between Tour and Player/standard in difficulty judging by some early scores. Hardly anyone would ever earn a promotion. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Jun 29, 2017 7:57:17 GMT -5
Again, the issue is one in terms of balance.
Maybe everyone on the PGA should have to play the Standard clubs.
Sounds ridiculous, right?
We're playing courses designed around player clubs, and are surprised that the game is easier with Player clubs.
Player clubs need to be made a bit riskier and a bit less straight and we'll be fine.
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