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Post by ijs1543 on Aug 3, 2016 12:41:22 GMT -5
An Apology is always welcome obviously. But i've always believed you can tell more about a person from their immediate reaction to something than what they say 2 days later, so to me it rings slightly hollow. Maybe that's me being cynical..... Straight Shooting, Two Accounts, Multiple Ghosts are to me, all pretty insignificant when compared to threats of violence to fellow community members. That for me is perma-ban territory. If it isn't then where exactly do you draw the line? I agree his reaction was out of order but the threats were to andre not the community so if andre is going to accept his apology then im not sure we should hang him for it.
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Post by theduke21 on Aug 3, 2016 12:44:19 GMT -5
Your welcome. I'm a little concerned ya all b%&in before the new 1 comes out may make the true gamers or as you lot like to refer to them as Web. come or weaker players to think twice about buying the new game. You all need to get if your high horses. Everyone near the top 'cheats' one way or another so if you guys respect HB stop acting like it's life or death Just as I said in the now locked thread, bunch of cheats at the top level and everyone knows it. Your opinion on this is a complete joke and it always has been. Must be a conspiracy theorist.
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Post by Brighttail on Aug 3, 2016 12:44:48 GMT -5
As I said, we have all lied and I believe we have all lied about lying somewhere in our past. It is what humans do. Some are better than others but we've all done it.
The threats, leaves me with a bitter taste tho and I do believe that the Admin should take that into consideration.
Personally I would love to see a punishment where he can stay within the community. Have him keep making his courses. If they are good and we use one, perhaps lessen the overall ban time a bit, this way he is working for the community. Of course he and anyone else not on the TGCT boards can play in the tournaments, no one can stop that. What he can't do is get into the tournaments using the TGCT tools and compete against others, be in playoffs, ect.
In the end he did apologize, to me it seems sincere. Let him sit out of competition but still remain a productive member of the community. Make him work to earn his way back. Seems fair to me. Once again, I'm fine with whatever the admins come up with.
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Post by ijs1543 on Aug 3, 2016 12:52:51 GMT -5
As I said, we have all lied and I believe we have all lied about lying somewhere in our past. It is what humans do. Some are better than others but we've all done it. The threats, leaves me with a bitter taste tho and I do believe that the Admin should take that into consideration. Personally I would love to see a punishment where he can stay within the community. Have him keep making his courses. If they are good and we use one, perhaps lessen the overall ban time a bit, this way he is working for the community. Of course he and anyone else not on the TGCT boards can play in the tournaments, no one can stop that. What he can't do is get into the tournaments using the TGCT tools and compete against others, be in playoffs, ect. In the end he did apologize, to me it seems sincere. Let him sit out of competition but still remain a productive member of the community. Make him work to earn his way back. Seems fair to me. Once again, I'm fine with whatever the admins come up with. We will chain him to his desk to make courses all day for us as punishment and if he makes a good one we will feed him lol Im sure the admins will think about it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:59:58 GMT -5
To lighten things up a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 13:00:43 GMT -5
OK, a rare post here with very little attempts at humor.
I'm not going to dismiss steve's apology at all as too little too late. I've worked with many folks who have addictions and other issues and when they first hit the bottom anger and lashing out are very common. That's what I saw happening here...when things like a deception of steve's level comes crashing down you're slamming bottom.
After he had time to really breathe, grieve the loss of what he now knows he's truly losing, he can see clearly enough to apologize sincerely for his actions.
I've already forgiven him for what he's done. No reason to hang on to anger or even frustration about it.
However, that doesn't mean there should not be a penalty for his actions here. He violated the rules, he knows it and now he owns it.
I'm Mr. Second Chance around here but I'm not against the idea of a permaban from official TGCT events. At the core, he was a member caught cheating who defied a one year suspension and ran a massive fraud on the community. We cannot ignore the actions that were taken even in the spirit of forgiveness and second chances. A precedent has to be set here, and that has to be if you violate a suspension or try to run a second account, you will not be allowed to complete as part of TGC Tours.
Now, that said, I do see another way here.
Community Events are not part of the official TGC Tours purview. (Yes, some depend on results from TGCT like the Ryder Cup, and those should be off-limits to anyone banned.)
I would have zero trouble if Steve stayed around the forums and participated in discussions. I'd have zero trouble if he designed courses and they were even used on TGCT events. There are plenty of course designers in the real world who aren't playing on the PGA tour.
And I would have zero trouble if he competed in community run events with the permission of whoever is hosting the event.
This way, he has a punishment from TGCTours but he can also build on his "second coming" as a member of the community. Then perhaps the "permaban" could be reviewed after a year or two years.
Maybe I'm just being a pollyanna here in thinking this is a good compromise that is a benefit to everyone...but it's an idea.
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Post by Royce on Aug 3, 2016 13:07:52 GMT -5
Just as I said in the now locked thread, bunch of cheats at the top level and everyone knows it. Your opinion on this is a complete joke and it always has been. Must be a conspiracy theorist. I'll end this here; nobody ever cheats on TGCTours. There, done.
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Post by theduke21 on Aug 3, 2016 13:11:11 GMT -5
Your opinion on this is a complete joke and it always has been. Must be a conspiracy theorist. I'll end this here; nobody ever cheats on TGCTours. There, done. Never said that. But you say, "bunch of cheats at the top." You've also said that anyone who doesn't stream is a cheat. First off, I've played live with Ian and Smurf numerous times. Nothing fishy there. Griffin streams all of the time. I stream frequently. Garcia posts videos of him playing all of the time. There's your top 5 right there. Clean.
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Post by NCFCRulz on Aug 3, 2016 13:14:43 GMT -5
As a long standing member and big posting member although mostly browsing now il post my thoughts for what they are worth Steve deserved what he got and in my mind deserved more for cheating. I was not happy with what happened and it was the beginning of the end for me posting on here often. Steve then ignored his punishment and came back under a new guise deliberately or not deliberately deceiving Admin. Steve got caught as boom boom and then tried to deny everything. This I feel is natural to do if you get caught. I would probably do the same. Steve did nothing bad as boom boom. He helped members of this community and was a good welcome participant in most conversations. Steve did not know we would ever discover he had circumvented the punishment Why did Steve circumvent it? Because he is very passionate for this game. He came back and has not cheated over a sustained period of time whilst demonstrating his passion on a regular basis. Do I feel Steve deserved his punishment, yes I do. Am I aggrieved by him circumventing the punishment - yeah it pissed me off a bit however taking a step back him doing this has been good for the community I'm not saying what he did is right, it isn't however he has demonstrated he has learnt his lesson in a means to which he never thought he would get found out so had no reason to pretend to be good to fool Admin he had changed (unless this is one big level and his ploy all along ) I think up until yesterday once he had been found out he's done the natural thing to deny it then 24 hours later come clean. I'm OK with that and I think as from before he was found out yesterday he should now be able to continue his career here HOWEVER I have not read all 24 pages of yesterday and alot of this thread was tldr for me so if anythibf has happened since being found out then any punishment neccessary should be carried out. Boom boom has been a credit to have on these forums and I don't think that should all be lost just because the true identity has been found. Boom boom has still been a good and well thought of account
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Post by yaters on Aug 3, 2016 13:18:23 GMT -5
OK, a rare post here with very little attempts at humor. I'm not going to dismiss steve's apology at all as too little too late. I've worked with many folks who have addictions and other issues and when they first hit the bottom anger and lashing out are very common. That's what I saw happening here...when things like a deception of steve's level comes crashing down you're slamming bottom. After he had time to really breathe, grieve the loss of what he now knows he's truly losing, he can see clearly enough to apologize sincerely for his actions. I've already forgiven him for what he's done. No reason to hang on to anger or even frustration about it. However, that doesn't mean there should not be a penalty for his actions here. He violated the rules, he knows it and now he owns it. I'm Mr. Second Chance around here but I'm not against the idea of a permaban from official TGCT events. At the core, he was a member caught cheating who defied a one year suspension and ran a massive fraud on the community. We cannot ignore the actions that were taken even in the spirit of forgiveness and second chances. A precedent has to be set here, and that has to be if you violate a suspension or try to run a second account, you will not be allowed to complete as part of TGC Tours. Now, that said, I do see another way here. Community Events are not part of the official TGC Tours purview. (Yes, some depend on results from TGCT like the Ryder Cup, and those should be off-limits to anyone banned.) I would have zero trouble if Steve stayed around the forums and participated in discussions. I'd have zero trouble if he designed courses and they were even used on TGCT events. There are plenty of course designers in the real world who aren't playing on the PGA tour. And I would have zero trouble if he competed in community run events with the permission of whoever is hosting the event. This way, he has a punishment from TGCTours but he can also build on his "second coming" as a member of the community. Then perhaps the "permaban" could be reviewed after a year or two years. Maybe I'm just being a pollyanna here in thinking this is a good compromise that is a benefit to everyone...but it's an idea. I could support this, but it might be best if this started a few months from now at least. Not sure I like Mr. serious Irving. You've got a podcast to prepare for sir.
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Post by theduke21 on Aug 3, 2016 13:18:28 GMT -5
I think the problem here is that Steve will never be fully welcomed here again, especially if he is competing and playing well on a top tour. The threads will get ugly and I think everyone knows it.
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Aug 3, 2016 13:23:42 GMT -5
I think the problem here is that Steve will never be fully welcomed here again, especially if he is competing and playing well on a top tour. The threads will get ugly and I think everyone knows it. It's totally possible. Sometimes people will continue to hold grudges. I'm guilty of that especially with Kenny Willis. I have since let it go. But with the API and other tools TGC Tours have at their disposal, they will catch any offenses that occur from anyone.
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Post by NCFCRulz on Aug 3, 2016 13:23:42 GMT -5
I'll end this here; nobody ever cheats on TGCTours. There, done. Never said that. But you say, "bunch of cheats at the top." You've also said that anyone who doesn't stream is a cheat. First off, I've played live with Ian and Smurf numerous times. Nothing fishy there. Griffin streams all of the time. I stream frequently. Garcia posts videos of him playing all of the time. There's your top 5 right there. Clean. ignore him, he's looking for a rise. It's just jealousy that he isn't very good at this game so of course no one else can be unless they are cheating.
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Post by tastegw on Aug 3, 2016 13:24:50 GMT -5
As I said, we have all lied and I believe we have all lied about lying somewhere in our past. It is what humans do. Some are better than others but we've all done it. The threats, leaves me with a bitter taste tho and I do believe that the Admin should take that into consideration. Personally I would love to see a punishment where he can stay within the community. Have him keep making his courses. If they are good and we use one, perhaps lessen the overall ban time a bit, this way he is working for the community. Of course he and anyone else not on the TGCT boards can play in the tournaments, no one can stop that. What he can't do is get into the tournaments using the TGCT tools and compete against others, be in playoffs, ect. In the end he did apologize, to me it seems sincere. Let him sit out of competition but still remain a productive member of the community. Make him work to earn his way back. Seems fair to me. Once again, I'm fine with whatever the admins come up with. still waiting for you to admit you gained the system on purpose not once but many times and without any bullshit explanation that you concocted along the way. -straight shooting with angle snap turned on ignorance while on TGCTours and without punishment of any kind. -infinite mulligan use minus the whole ball squirt testing crap tossed in there -using finite settings on the mouse to aid you, because your true skill level is much worse, outside the cone worse, via your own words. its ironic that as soon as we got word of an API was coming to tgctours, you came up with that BS story about how you did not know about how your angle snapping was turned on in your mouse settings. you knew you had to change the way you played, and players would notice you are no longer 90% white line shooting, so you concocted a story and bravo,...because everyone believed you You refuse to use a controller because you have no control over it, you love the freedom your mouse settings give you, freedom that stock controllers do not come with. You say your thumb hurts if you use one, but there are two sticks, one for left and one for right, you say you dont have the budget for one, yet you have a high end pc, and yet, you still have excuses for everything, how convenient is that! then you come in here and lecture us on how we lie? seriously?
You did get one thing right when it comes to lying:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 13:25:44 GMT -5
I really hesitate to get too involved in this, but sometimes certain things stand out and make me say "wth?". Let me this preface this by saying that I'm a retired 1st Sergeant, so I probably have some pretty different views from the majority when it comes to honor and accountability.
I have very mixed feelings on the entire subject. Like Griz said, there is a large part of me that would prefer this being handled behind closed doors. The practical part of me knows that there were probably even bigger problems had this been handled in that manner. Steve (BoomBoom) is a VERY recognizable name within the community, so even larger conspiracy theories would have popped up had this not been addressed with full transparency in the community forum. While I see no need for the name calling and such, it is to be expected that people will have some pretty strong feelings...especially when it's a fresh wound.
As to the threats....yeaaahhhhh. That's a MAJOR problem. It can be rationalized and "justified" as much as people want, but it doesn't fly. In today's age of technology that's a serious thing...so serious that there are laws and criminal consequences for such things. You never know what a person is capable of hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard on the internet. It is NEVER a thing to be taken lightly, and you will never convince me it is an appropriate, reasonable, justified, or "human nature" reaction to a message board forum conflict....EVER. This would be a sticking point hard to get past for me. While the apology is a nice gesture, it doesn't change the fact that it happened.
As to the cheating...I have no clue exactly what happened nor do I want to. If the admins felt there was enough reason to punish I'm good with that. If the admins felt it was reasonable for a member to come back after serving said punishment I'm good with that too. I think circumventing that punishment after being found guilty (in the eyes of the admin) speaks to a person's character, but I'm not going to proclaim a person is the devil for doing so. Is it dishonorable? Absolutely. Is it somebody I want to be friends with? probably not. Should it be a "death sentence"? That's probably taking it a bit too far. I see no reason why he couldn't be reinstated after a reasonable punishment has been handed down. It's obvious that second chances can work. That being said, I see the other side of the debate as well, and it can be argued that the suspension being served and then coming back WAS the second chance...and he chose a different route.
What I SERIOUSLY have a problem with is punishment/suspension/banishment being in ANY way tied to creating courses. REALLY?!?!? Is there a shortage of designers that I'm unaware of? A) I think it's entirely unfair to him to have ANY decision contingent on him creating courses. "Your last course was crap, so reinstatement denied." "You're not creating enough courses, so reinstatement denied." Not to mention that has absolutely nothing to do with being able to compete on the tours. B) it sets a dangerous precedent on just how far you can push the line if you happen to be a good designer. How is it NOT a slap in the face to those that don't design at all? So you can cheat, get caught, create a dummy account, get caught, threaten another member, get caught, but it's ok because you're a good designer and you apologized. Sorry...that line of thinking blows my mind, and should in NO WAY have ANYTHING to do with the debate going forward.
Like I said...this would be a tough call for me because it goes beyond bad decision making and questionable character. You have 3 separate instances of dishonorable behavior and disregarding of rules. I am a big believer in being accountable for one's actions, and in no way was he even remotely accountable until pretty much forced to make an apology. Would I be open to discussing him being reinstated? Absolutely. That being said, I lean towards saying bye-bye because this kind of crap is a cancer in the community, and that is what this is site and tour is really about.
Anyways....just my 2 cents.
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