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Post by nantez88 on Mar 23, 2016 9:42:53 GMT -5
This may sound bad but I think they should put a cap on qschool. It is meant to be a qualifying school after all and what I mean is if somebody shoots a certain criteria of over par they should be sent an email saying ''unfortunately your score wasn't good enough to qualify this month, please try next month'' or something similar Maybe I'm being bad but IRL if your not good enough well tough luck keep practicing till you are. I think it would stop the sandbagging to some extent anyway. Anyway just my opinion Hope I don't offend anyone :-) Won't fix a thing. They'll just shoot whatever score they need to shoot in order to make E Class. So big deal, we keep them from the tour for a month. So what? Cheaters will find a way to game the system. They always do. Yeah that's true Wags they will always find a way and it's so unfortunate such is life. I hate seeing it going on and it really is such a shame and very hard to police
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Post by ABU_Bear on Mar 23, 2016 9:43:23 GMT -5
This may sound bad but I think they should put a cap on qschool. It is meant to be a qualifying school after all and what I mean is if somebody shoots a certain criteria of over par they should be sent an email saying ''unfortunately your score wasn't good enough to qualify this month, please try next month'' or something similar Maybe I'm being bad but IRL if your not good enough well tough luck keep practicing till you are. I think it would stop the sandbagging to some extent anyway. Anyway just my opinion Hope I don't offend anyone :-) I think Q-school should be relegated harder...if you don't hit a certain score...you don't earn a card..in ANY flight. Don't say anyone +80 or whatever is CC-E...it makes it too easy to cheat. Line out your tiers like this 40 under and better = Choice of PGA or Euro Tour (you will select this after submitting your Round 6 score) 30 under to 39 under = Web.com Tour card 20 under to 29 under = Challenge Circuit Flight A card 10 under to 19 under = Challenge Circuit Flight B card 5 over to 9 under = Challenge Circuit Flight C card 20 over to 6 over = Challenge Circuit Flight D card 25 over to 21 over = Challenge Circuit Flight E card 26 over and up...re qualify just my opinion of course
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Post by Slymas on Mar 23, 2016 9:46:49 GMT -5
The chaps a blatant sandbagger! I like your idea Nant but the cheating @!$#s will just game the system. You'll always find sad @!$#ers cheating in things like this unfortunately and the admins just need to be more vigilant on sandbagging in my opinion. I can understand why the admins are cautious on it as they don't want to accidentally penalise an innocent person but something has to be done. Maybe create a new admin called Judge Dune, that person will judge the sandbaggers and smite them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 9:51:28 GMT -5
This may sound bad but I think they should put a cap on qschool. It is meant to be a qualifying school after all and what I mean is if somebody shoots a certain criteria of over par they should be sent an email saying ''unfortunately your score wasn't good enough to qualify this month, please try next month'' or something similar Maybe I'm being bad but IRL if your not good enough well tough luck keep practicing till you are. I think it would stop the sandbagging to some extent anyway. Anyway just my opinion Hope I don't offend anyone :-) I think Q-school should be relegated harder...if you don't hit a certain score...you don't earn a card..in ANY flight. Don't say anyone +80 or whatever is CC-E...it makes it too easy to cheat. Line out your tiers like this 40 under and better = Choice of PGA or Euro Tour (you will select this after submitting your Round 6 score) 30 under to 39 under = Web.com Tour card 20 under to 29 under = Challenge Circuit Flight A card 10 under to 19 under = Challenge Circuit Flight B card 5 over to 9 under = Challenge Circuit Flight C card 20 over to 6 over = Challenge Circuit Flight D card 25 over to 21 over = Challenge Circuit Flight E card 26 over and up...re qualify Jim, it won't work. Here's why. John Doe knows he can shoot 40 under in Q School in his sleep. He looks at the chart and looks to see what he has to shoot to qualify for E class and goes and shoots it. He'll do the math. 24 over is 4 over per round. He'll par 14 holes and bogie 4 holes. He'll do this for every round. If he's that good, he can do this in his sleep. Yes, it's harder than just being able to totally screw up and shoot 100 over. Yes, some thought will have to go into it. But if the person is that determined to start in E class, he'll find a way to do it. Now, here's what it does to the honest people. I shot +84 in the old Q School. Had we done the same thing back then, It might have taken me month to finally get accepted to the tour. Before that even happened, I might have simply gotten discouraged and given up. I don't think it's fair to the honest folks who are still struggling with this game (like me) to say if they're not at a certain level, they can't play. Besides, like I said, it won't fix the problem. A great golfer can probably shoot any score at will.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Mar 23, 2016 9:57:38 GMT -5
I think Q-school should be relegated harder...if you don't hit a certain score...you don't earn a card..in ANY flight. Don't say anyone +80 or whatever is CC-E...it makes it too easy to cheat. Line out your tiers like this 40 under and better = Choice of PGA or Euro Tour (you will select this after submitting your Round 6 score) 30 under to 39 under = Web.com Tour card 20 under to 29 under = Challenge Circuit Flight A card 10 under to 19 under = Challenge Circuit Flight B card 5 over to 9 under = Challenge Circuit Flight C card 20 over to 6 over = Challenge Circuit Flight D card 25 over to 21 over = Challenge Circuit Flight E card 26 over and up...re qualify Jim, it won't work. Here's why. John Doe knows he can shoot 40 under in Q School in his sleep. He looks at the chart and looks to see what he has to shoot to qualify for E class and goes and shoots it. He'll do the math. 24 over is 4 over per round. He'll par 14 holes and bogie 4 holes. He'll do this for every round. If he's that good, he can do this in his sleep. Yes, it's harder than just being able to totally screw up and shoot 100 over. Yes, some thought will have to go into it. But if the person is that determined to start in E class, he'll find a way to do it. Now, here's what it does to the honest people. I shot +84 in the old Q School. Had we done the same thing back then, It might have taken me month to finally get accepted to the tour. Before that even happened, I might have simply gotten discouraged and given up. I don't think it's fair to the honest folks who are still struggling with this game (like me) to say if they're not at a certain level, they can't play. Besides, like I said, it won't fix the problem. A great golfer can probably shoot any score at will. Yes...if you're determined to find a loop hole and do the leg work to achieve it..you'll do it if it makes you feel better to "beat the system". The thing my set up does is it removes one of the variables. You can't just tank and get to E...if you want to dupe the system in my setup...you're gonna have to actually work to achieve it. If your life sucks that much that you need to manipulate a game to arouse yourself...you've got issues nobody can solve.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 9:59:48 GMT -5
Jim, it won't work. Here's why. John Doe knows he can shoot 40 under in Q School in his sleep. He looks at the chart and looks to see what he has to shoot to qualify for E class and goes and shoots it. He'll do the math. 24 over is 4 over per round. He'll par 14 holes and bogie 4 holes. He'll do this for every round. If he's that good, he can do this in his sleep. Yes, it's harder than just being able to totally screw up and shoot 100 over. Yes, some thought will have to go into it. But if the person is that determined to start in E class, he'll find a way to do it. Now, here's what it does to the honest people. I shot +84 in the old Q School. Had we done the same thing back then, It might have taken me month to finally get accepted to the tour. Before that even happened, I might have simply gotten discouraged and given up. I don't think it's fair to the honest folks who are still struggling with this game (like me) to say if they're not at a certain level, they can't play. Besides, like I said, it won't fix the problem. A great golfer can probably shoot any score at will. Yes...if you're determined to find a loop hole and do the leg work to achieve it..you'll do it if it makes you feel better to "beat the system". The thing my set up does is it removes one of the variables. You can't just tank and get to E...if you want to dupe the system in my setup...you're gonna have to actually work to achieve it. If your life sucks that much that you need to manipulate a game to arouse yourself...you've got issues nobody can solve. You're right, it does make them work for it. And yes, they do have serious issues. At the same time, it really hurts the honest folks who just want to play some golf. Think about it. You and I may have never become friends because you know how crappy I was at this game.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Mar 23, 2016 10:03:05 GMT -5
Yes...if you're determined to find a loop hole and do the leg work to achieve it..you'll do it if it makes you feel better to "beat the system". The thing my set up does is it removes one of the variables. You can't just tank and get to E...if you want to dupe the system in my setup...you're gonna have to actually work to achieve it. If your life sucks that much that you need to manipulate a game to arouse yourself...you've got issues nobody can solve. You're right, it does make them work for it. And yes, they do have serious issues. At the same time, it really hurts the honest folks who just want to play some golf. Think about it. You and I may have never become friends because you know how crappy I was at this game. but you can still play the game...and you can still be a TGCTours member..you just wouldn't be able to submit tournament scores until you place in Q-School. Just like now...anyone can play the Euro/PGA/Web events..they just can't register and submit scores. Earn that card...submit your score. Real Q-school doesn't say..."hey you...ya you the chump who just carded a 124...wanna play on a tour"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 10:10:37 GMT -5
You're right, it does make them work for it. And yes, they do have serious issues. At the same time, it really hurts the honest folks who just want to play some golf. Think about it. You and I may have never become friends because you know how crappy I was at this game. but you can still play the game...and you can still be a TGCTours member..you just wouldn't be able to submit tournament scores until you place in Q-School. Just like now...anyone can play the Euro/PGA/Web events..they just can't register and submit scores. Earn that card...submit your score. Real Q-school doesn't say..."hey you...ya you the chump who just carded a 124...wanna play on a tour" I get where you're coming from. I just wonder how many players will have the incentive to keep on playing until they do earn that card. I think after a while I would have just gotten so frustrated I would have given up. I mean it's frustrating enough when you're on the tour and struggling to move up or just hold your ground (I'm in danger of going back to D next week) week after week. Imagine week after week of playing and redoing Q School (which you can only do once a month) and falling short. At some point you're just going to say the heck with it. And I'm not part of the "Let's give the kids an award just for competing." I don't believe in that. I think it's ruining this country. But we're not talking about giving an honest player an award. We're talking about just giving him the chance to earn it. I get having to earn a PGA card, but any amateur golfer in the world can compete with the amateurs and submit a score card. Saying that they're not even allowed to do that I think is a little harsh. That's my only problem with having to qualify just to submit a score card.
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Post by feng187 on Mar 23, 2016 10:12:09 GMT -5
I agree with ABU_Bear here and his ideas on QSchool is along the lines of what I would be thinking. I would still have a CC-Z for the guys that don't make it and get a card and then they can have their own amateur section until they promote through winning or whatever critera or take another shot at the next QSchool to get a pro card(I know technically pro cards are Web and higher but last time I checked CC has a moneylist), so this deals with people being discouraged and quitting. To stop the lads sandbagging there must be a clear distinction in where trophies are won so any trophy on CC should clearly state the level it was won at, then when one of these sandbaggers does eventually end up in PGA or Euro a few weeks later with a trophy haul like "The Machine" or other top players they can clearly be identified as exactly what they are. "Oh look John Doe is a great player up in PGA on exemption this week, oh wait look at his profile he was in CC-E less than a month ago and has wins in E, D, C, B, A. I guess he's a sandbagger that bombed QSchool on purpose"
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Post by Doyley on Mar 23, 2016 10:15:50 GMT -5
Hi guys - part of the job of being the Tournament Director is to make sure things are running smoothly. I agree in this case that Q-School was not accurate in putting him on the correct tour. I have removed him from CC-E and put him in the Web.com tour. Not something I like to do often but in such obvious cases such as this one, it's an easy decision.
For the record - those scores were not shot in the official event - he played the wrong one - that is why his hole by hole scores didn't show up. Either way, no version of Magnolia is easy enough for a CC-E level player to shoot 56 so we bumped him up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 10:17:23 GMT -5
I agree with ABU_Bear here and his ideas on QSchool is along the lines of what I would be thinking. I would still have a CC-Z for the guys that don't make it and get a card and then they can have their own amateur section until they promote through winning or whatever critera or take another shot at the next QSchool to get a pro card(I know technically pro cards are Web and higher but last time I checked CC has a moneylist), so this deals with people being discouraged and quitting. To stop the lads sandbagging there must be a clear distinction in where trophies are won so any trophy on CC should clearly state the level it was won at, then when one of these sandbaggers does eventually end up in PGA or Euro a few weeks later with a trophy haul like "The Machine" or other top players they can clearly be identified as exactly what they are. "Oh look John Doe is a great player up in PGA on exemption this week, oh wait look at his profile he was in CC-E less than a month ago and has wins in E, D, C, B, A. I guess he's a sandbagger that bombed QSchool on purpose" That's all well and good. And then what? Do they get their PGA card taken away from them? What will be the consequences other than people pointing at him going "shame on you cheater?" And then how do you prove this beyond any shadow of a doubt? We're just walking a very slippery slope here and believe me, I hate cheaters more than anybody. But I also understand burden of proof and a lot of other legal crap that I wish I didn't. Like I said, very slippery slope we're walking here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 10:19:17 GMT -5
Hi guys - part of the job of being the Tournament Director is to make sure things are running smoothly. I agree in this case that Q-School was not accurate in putting him on the correct tour. I have removed him from CC-E and put him in the Web.com tour. Not something I like to do often but in such obvious cases such as this one, it's an easy decision. For the record - those scores were not shot in the official event - he played the wrong one - that is why his hole by hole scores didn't show up. Either way, no version of Magnolia is easy enough for a CC-E level player to shoot 56 so we bumped him up. Scott, you have an impossible job that I wouldn't want for all the money in the world. And you do it very well. Good call on this one.
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Post by nantez88 on Mar 23, 2016 10:20:17 GMT -5
You're right, it does make them work for it. And yes, they do have serious issues. At the same time, it really hurts the honest folks who just want to play some golf. Think about it. You and I may have never become friends because you know how crappy I was at this game. but you can still play the game...and you can still be a TGCTours member..you just wouldn't be able to submit tournament scores until you place in Q-School. Just like now...anyone can play the Euro/PGA/Web events..they just can't register and submit scores. Earn that card...submit your score. Real Q-school doesn't say..."hey you...ya you the chump who just carded a 124...wanna play on a tour" Well said I agree 100% if your not good enough you don't qualify I'm not gonna sugar coat it for anyone, if you really want to make it, keep practicing,go to the driving range get tips etc until you are good enough to qualify. Maybe I'm being terrible but IRL it's like this and as you said no chump off the street. I'll prepare for the backlash but it's my opinion. if I had it my way it would be no card for any tier unless you finish qschool Even par or better. This obviously has flaws too as it would decrease numbers etc so I don't know at all, it's a really difficult topic Sorry if I offend anyone but I was rared you don't get anything in life unless you work for it and wouldn't be handed any participation trophies in school for losing. Maybe it's an Irish thing I don't know
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 10:24:23 GMT -5
but you can still play the game...and you can still be a TGCTours member..you just wouldn't be able to submit tournament scores until you place in Q-School. Just like now...anyone can play the Euro/PGA/Web events..they just can't register and submit scores. Earn that card...submit your score. Real Q-school doesn't say..."hey you...ya you the chump who just carded a 124...wanna play on a tour" Well said I agree 100% if your not good enough you don't qualify I'm not gonna sugar coat it for anyone, if you really want to make it, keep practicing,go to the driving range get tips etc until you are good enough to qualify. Maybe I'm being terrible but IRL it's like this and as you said no chump off the street. I'll prepare for the backlash but it's my opinion. if I had it my way it would be no card for any tier unless you finish qschool Even par or better. This obviously has flaws too as it would decrease numbers etc so I don't know at all, it's a really difficult topic Sorry if I offend anyone but I was rared you don't get anything in life unless you work for it and wouldn't be handed any participation trophies in school for losing. Maybe it's an Irish thing I don't know We're not talking about giving trophies. Again, if I was an amateur golfer, I could compete in any amateur event and submit a score card. I don't have to qualify to become an amateur. So essentially what TGC Tours would become is a professional organization like the PGA just with different levels. Do you have any idea how few members we'd have? Essentially, this would become a very exclusive club. There has got to be some middle ground between no control and discouraging half the golfing population (myself included) from even bothering trying to become a TGC Tours member.
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Post by feng187 on Mar 23, 2016 10:25:33 GMT -5
I agree with ABU_Bear here and his ideas on QSchool is along the lines of what I would be thinking. I would still have a CC-Z for the guys that don't make it and get a card and then they can have their own amateur section until they promote through winning or whatever critera or take another shot at the next QSchool to get a pro card(I know technically pro cards are Web and higher but last time I checked CC has a moneylist), so this deals with people being discouraged and quitting. To stop the lads sandbagging there must be a clear distinction in where trophies are won so any trophy on CC should clearly state the level it was won at, then when one of these sandbaggers does eventually end up in PGA or Euro a few weeks later with a trophy haul like "The Machine" or other top players they can clearly be identified as exactly what they are. "Oh look John Doe is a great player up in PGA on exemption this week, oh wait look at his profile he was in CC-E less than a month ago and has wins in E, D, C, B, A. I guess he's a sandbagger that bombed QSchool on purpose" That's all well and good. And then what? Do they get their PGA card taken away from them? What will be the consequences other than people pointing at him going "shame on you cheater?" And then how do you prove this beyond any shadow of a doubt? We're just walking a very slippery slope here and believe me, I hate cheaters more than anybody. But I also understand burden of proof and a lot of other legal crap that I wish I didn't. Like I said, very slippery slope we're walking here. Wags if it was up to me I would have them named and shamed as I don't think sitting on the fence with splinters in my arse is the best way to nip this kind of thing in the bud. You prove this by the fact that nobody goes straight from the lower levels to the top with win after win in this game unless they are masking their true level. The lads on here do a great job on this site and its always down to a sad small minority that have to cheat the system and ruin things for everyone else. I think there should be zero tolerance really and flat out bans for anyone gaming the system, would you agree? For instance our friend leading CC-E with no API data, if he turns out to be proven cheating and not some crazy glitch then its a life ban end of story
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