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Post by ABU_Bear on Dec 24, 2015 9:44:23 GMT -5
I'd rather play all 4 rounds on the Sunday pin...at least there would be consistency. I get that the designers want to "buy back" strokes when their course is chosen to host an event...but to me..if you can't do that in your original design..you've failed. A good design shouldn't need firmness and speed changes in order to make it tougher to score.
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Post by csabo17 on Dec 24, 2015 10:11:19 GMT -5
I'd rather play all 4 rounds on the Sunday pin...at least there would be consistency. I get that the designers want to "buy back" strokes when their course is chosen to host an event...but to me..if you can't do that in your original design..you've failed. A good design shouldn't need firmness and speed changes in order to make it tougher to score. Much agreed. This is an awesome course. I love the design and the way it plays. I think its plenty challenging enough on its own. No need to change the course that much for one day. Its seriously like playing a completely different course on the most important day.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 11:44:25 GMT -5
Played another one of my early courses rated hardest. Previous two times playing it, +7 and +4. Today, 3 under. And mind you, this is the first time I've played that course in months so I didn't even remember how to tackle it. It was all learning on the fly.
So I don't know whether to curse the designer of Yuchi or thank him.
It has definitely improved my game immensely.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 15:33:29 GMT -5
Thursday setup. 15 to 17 mph winds. 6 over.
Monday can't come soon enough.
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Post by Timbr0_T on Dec 24, 2015 17:31:55 GMT -5
I love a course that creates some controversy so I just gave the Sunday edition a go on Xbox. Shot a pretty good score compared to what I expected, my first impression being that the large greens and back pins totally compensated for the firm/fast conditions on the Sunday setup. The three ghosts I played with (the most recent rounds) seemed to be trying to pin hunt way too much, hitting it on average 8-10 yards too far on most holes. There's a whole lot of room to run up approaches, and the greens are very receptive to this with gentle slopes in the direction of the pins. I don't think there was even any need to loft up outside of the par 3's. The course was extremely fair, rewarding to good shots and a whole heck of a lot of fun to play.
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Post by nocturnal on Dec 25, 2015 0:08:09 GMT -5
I'd rather play all 4 rounds on the Sunday pin...at least there would be consistency. I get that the designers want to "buy back" strokes when their course is chosen to host an event...but to me..if you can't do that in your original design..you've failed. A good design shouldn't need firmness and speed changes in order to make it tougher to score. Much agreed. This is an awesome course. I love the design and the way it plays. I think its plenty challenging enough on its own. No need to change the course that much for one day. Its seriously like playing a completely different course on the most important day. I created a Thursday-Sunday version of Yuchi prior to it being named to host this tournament. It wasn't created solely for use as a Champions tour stop. When the CC course selection committee chose to use Yuchi for this tournament they also chose to include the Sunday version in this tournament. Friday, which was much slower and softer than Thursday, was omitted. (probably for having a par of 69) . When I saw that the Sunday pins were being used I decided to would be a really good idea to create this post to give everyone a "heads up" about the firmness and increased difficulty. That being said, I believe it is fair test for players of all skill levels. There are only a few holes where water poses a serious threat and the fairways are wide enough to keep it outta the rough depending on your club selection and/or risk assessment choices. Just like on the real pro tours, some holes/course conditions are better played in damage control mode.
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Post by csabo17 on Dec 25, 2015 9:09:12 GMT -5
Not complaining about your course at all. I love it. I just dont like the conditions being changed throughout a tourney. I think different pin placements are more then enough. I mean its multi pin event, not multi course settings event. Am I the only one who feels this way?
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Post by ABU_Bear on Dec 25, 2015 9:48:18 GMT -5
Not complaining about your course at all. I love it. I just dont like the conditions being changed throughout a tourney. I think different pin placements are more then enough. I mean its multi pin event, not multi course settings event. Am I the only one who feels this way? Nope..you're not alone. Changing the conditions via firmness and speed completely alters a course. Adaptation is key. I understand why designers do it, I get it...I just don't agree with it. The ability of CC players to adapt is usually more than round to round, where as the higher ranked players can adapt hole to hole. Damage control will be key. Like I said I'd rather play the entire tournament on the Sunday firmness and speed because you'd be able to adapt better because of the consistency. With 3 of the 4 rounds having different speed and firmness settings most player's won't have the abilities to adapt.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 10:03:24 GMT -5
Not complaining about your course at all. I love it. I just dont like the conditions being changed throughout a tourney. I think different pin placements are more then enough. I mean its multi pin event, not multi course settings event. Am I the only one who feels this way? Nope..you're not alone. Changing the conditions via firmness and speed completely alters a course. Adaptation is key. I understand why designers do it, I get it...I just don't agree with it. The ability of CC players to adapt is usually more than round to round, where as the higher ranked players can adapt hole to hole. Damage control will be key. Like I said I'd rather play the entire tournament on the Sunday firmness and speed because you'd be able to adapt better because of the consistency. With 3 of the 4 rounds having different speed and firmness settings most player's won't have the abilities to adapt. And with all that, ,my biggest problem is not so much with the different conditions but with the slopes on the greens. They're brutal. I'm not a great putter to begin with but if the slopes were a little more manageable, I'd do a lot better even with the different firmness settings. It took me about 50 rounds of playing all the pin positions to finally realize that ultimately it's the ridiculous slopes that make this course so difficult. In fact, I'm better off chipping my 3rd shot out of the rough on a par 4 than putting my 3rd shot for birdie. I can come closer to the pin and give myself a better shot at par than trying to navigate these greens. That's pretty sad when you'd rather be chipping out of the rough or even the sand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 11:32:14 GMT -5
Well, this has been one strange morning. I tee'd up on Sunday and my first shot I pulled so badly it ended up almost in the next hole. The whole round was like that. I was starting to think something was wrong with my controller. I ended up shooting 15 over, my worst round on any course in a long time. Oddly, my putting was the best it's been ever. I made some very long putts and at least consistently around the pin by a foot or two when I missed. If I could have gotten to the green in reg, I would have been fine.
I then clicked on replay course and like magic my driving straightened out and my putting stayed fairly consistent as I shot 1 under.
It was then that I realized that I really did know this course like the back of my hand and all I had to do was execute my shots just to shoot par.
I don't know which golfer is going to show up at the tourney, but at least I know it's possible to shoot par on this course without having to be a pro. Given how difficult this course is, I think par will be good enough to keep me from getting a demotion strike given that I am in Class E.
Of course that all depends on how many "should really be in class A" players I have to go up against.
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Post by csabo17 on Dec 25, 2015 14:09:45 GMT -5
Not complaining about your course at all. I love it. I just dont like the conditions being changed throughout a tourney. I think different pin placements are more then enough. I mean its multi pin event, not multi course settings event. Am I the only one who feels this way? Nope..you're not alone. Changing the conditions via firmness and speed completely alters a course. Adaptation is key. I understand why designers do it, I get it...I just don't agree with it. The ability of CC players to adapt is usually more than round to round, where as the higher ranked players can adapt hole to hole. Damage control will be key. L ike I said I'd rather play the entire tournament on the Sunday firmness and speed because you'd be able to adapt better because of the consistency. With 3 of the 4 rounds having different speed and firmness settings most player's won't have the abilities to adapt. I agree with this also. Id rather go back to CC not having multi pin events if its going to be totally different settings. Like I said earlier, its not multi pin events we are playing but multi settings.
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Post by nocturnal on Dec 25, 2015 14:35:17 GMT -5
I think the winner of any tournament should have to play through some adversity. Prove that you are competent with all aspects of your game. Not just who can dial in their approaches and 1 putt every hole. Prove that you can adjust and adapt to any and all situations and conditions. I am probably in the minority here but I think everyone from the PGA/Euro to the CC tours should play the same course. As I have said previously, strokes under/over par is irrelevant. It is how well you do versus the competition. My reasons for this are: 1) When I was in the Web tour last year I felt as if I wasn't getting to play the best of the best courses as they were sometimes reserved for the top tours. 2) It gives all players the ability to see how they stack up or how they are progressing vs the top tour players week by week. (apples to apples) 3) You won't really get better at harder/firmer courses with tucked pins and serious course management decisions if you don't play them. If CC players want to progress through the ranks they will need to learn how to tackle them. This game can be as much of a mental struggle with the course and with yourself as playing real golf depending on the course and conditions. (I believe wagtunes will agree with this) BUT, I do believe there are players in the CC tour that are looking for a very casual experience... primarily to have fun with some light competition. Maybe there should be a casual tour for them where they don't feel they have to invest a lot of time or increase their skill level to enjoy themselves. Easier courses could be used with this in mind. Everyone is different but this is my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 15:00:04 GMT -5
I think the winner of any tournament should have to play through some adversity. Prove that you are competent with all aspects of your game. Not just who can dial in their approaches and 1 putt every hole. Prove that you can adjust and adapt to any and all situations and conditions. I am probably in the minority here but I think everyone from the PGA/Euro to the CC tours should play the same course. As I have said previously, strokes under/over par is irrelevant. It is how well you do versus the competition. My reasons for this are: 1) When I was in the Web tour last year I felt as if I wasn't getting to play the best of the best courses as they were sometimes reserved for the top tours. 2) It gives all players the ability to see how they stack up or how they are progressing vs the top tour players week by week. (apples to apples) 3) You won't really get better at harder/firmer courses with tucked pins and serious course management decisions if you don't play them. If CC players want to progress through the ranks they will need to learn how to tackle them. This game can be as much of a mental struggle with the course and with yourself as playing real golf depending on the course and conditions. (I believe wagtunes will agree with this) BUT, I do believe there are players in the CC tour that are looking for a very casual experience... primarily to have fun with some light competition. Maybe there should be a casual tour for them where they don't feel they have to invest a lot of time or increase their skill level to enjoy themselves. Easier courses could be used with this in mind. Everyone is different but this is my opinion. As far as the competition itself goes, yeah, I couldn't care less what course I'm playing on as everybody in my class is playing the same course under the same conditions. So if I'm good enough to beat these players, the course shouldn't matter. My bigger problem with the tour itself is players who obviously have no business being in my class (I am a below average player at best) and put up scores like 30 to 40 under for the tourney. If they're that good, why are they competing against me? My comments on the course were for the course itself and nothing to do with the tourney. I'd be dumbfounded if a course like this actually existed in the real world. That's my complaint. The course borders on fantasy. For example, it seems that at least half of the holes, if not more, just happen to have strategically placed trees just where you're likely to land, thus blocking your next shot. The one hole has a tree dead smack in the middle between the fairway and the green and you have to hope to either land before the tree or after it or have a very difficult second shot. Then there is hole 18 which is just insane. As I said, wind blowing in, best you can hope for is green in 4. And even if not, the 2nd shot is a nightmare unless you just happen to land in just the right place on the fairway because of all the trees and the bunker. Then there is another hole over water. You just about clear it with the wind blowing in. But the 2nd shot, regardless of where you are on the fairway, has almost no chance of making the green in two. Fortunately, it is a par 5 so it's not a big deal. But again, the angle of the shot and all those trees make it a fool's errand to even try. And with the firm greens, it's stupid to try anyway. So you really have no options on that hole. There there is the 228 yard par 3. If you club down to a 3 iron, unless the wind is blowing out hard, you'll never make the green. Using the 5 wood, it's almost impossible to hold the green. I could go on and on hole by hole. The course itself, tourney or not, is infuriating. And all of this is before you even get to the green with those severe slopes. I have played this course at least 50 times and the best I can do on Thursday is 5 under and the best I can do on Sunday is 3 under? And both of those were miracles. Any other courses in this game, outside of those abominations they chose for Q School with the hallway harrow fairways and 4 foot tilted greens, I'd be shooting 60 if I played them as much. I have yet to find a way to consistently conquer this course. But fine, you say it's not about your score but about beating your competition? Let's see how I stake up against that competition whom I am sure didn't play these courses 50 or more times going into this event. Of course if I'm really that bad, it won't matter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 15:36:47 GMT -5
Pin position on Thursday's 17th hole is brutal. Shot 1 over for the round in pretty strong winds.
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Post by nocturnal on Dec 25, 2015 18:39:22 GMT -5
@wagtunes I know what you are saying about the obstacles (trees) partially blocking some approaches but his one of a couple of ways (super narrow fairways being another) of making driving the ball more realistic. The PGA players on tv do not hit every fairway. Sometime they miss more than they hit. This game is WAY too easy to hit a straight shot so without obstacles to avoid or narrow fairways the tee shot is a mere formality. The crazy greens at the 2015 US Open at Chambers Bay or the windy conditions at the 2015 British Open at St Andrews seemed more fantasy than this. Here are some examples of obstacles that need to be avoided.
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