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Post by Timbr0_T on Nov 26, 2015 12:37:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure the problem is with how players are assigned out of Q-school. No matter what courses, format or length (within reason) you pick for Q-school there is no easy way to predict the speed of people's progress. This is all pretty rough in my head.... but If I would change anything, it's the way that promotions are handed out in CC-B to CC-E. I agree good players aren't being promoted fast enough... My idea would be to do away with the current procedure of being promoted up one tier for finishing in X place or above. Instead, the CC tiers would be re-balanced every month based on each player's average finishing position for the month on the Master CC leaderboard (e.g.: all tiers combined). Top 20% would be assigned to CC-A for the next month, next 20% CC-B, and so on. CC-A promotions to Web would stay as per usual. You'd have to play a minimum of two events to be counted, or you stay in the same tier. Thoughts? I would think you'd get just as many complaints rebalancing once a month as good/improving players would be stuck in lower flights for 2 or 3 events in row. Re-balancing weekly would be too much the other way as people would lose track of what flight they are in week to week and rivalries would be harder to develop. Love hearing the ideas - just playing devils advocate for a few Hey Doyley - that could definitely be the case, I'll try to whip up something in Excel later to see how last week's leaderboards would have looked if players had been rebalanced based on the four previous tourneys. Let me put the kibosh on my own theory lol
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 12:46:18 GMT -5
This is all well and good. It still doesn't tell me how far back to pull the stick. It also doesn't tell me how far right or left to shift my putt so that it breaks the proper amount to get in the hole. The marker only helps so much. The rest is learning how far back, left and right to put the stick. And it seems that this is my biggest problem in the game. I think I have a putt lined up properly but it either goes inches to the right or left of the cup or doesn't reach or goes too far on just about anything over 5 feet. Every once in a while I get lucky and sink a 30 footer but I have absolutely no idea how I did it or what I did to make the putt so accurate. But you can't do 100% with putting. The mechanic was built more sensitive than driving and everything else. On fast greens, you can pull the stick back a fraction and the ball goes flying. On slow greens you have to almost ram it. There is too much variance between the different putting surfaces and I don't see how a marker is going to solve my problems because of that one fact. That's why the putting is the best part of this game, because the only way you can learn how much putts will break/how hard to hit them on different green speeds is through experience. I can post a video of a few putts (if you want) that might give you some guidance, but it genuinely is trial and error and it's pretty much impossible to "master" it Heck, even those of us who've been playing for a year have days where nothing will drop. So putting IS hard. In other words, I just have to keep working at it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 13:55:33 GMT -5
Okay, I just tried an experiment. I played a round on next week's course that I played the other day and shot 6 under. This round I used the marker on the putts. I moved it in towards the hole in order to get a more "accurate" distance, whatever. I shot 4 under. In fact, I found that some distances that I was used to not using it were now different and I was missing putts by an even greater margin. So either I have to relearn how to play this game using the marker (because it does alter your putts) or just continue not using it and getting a feel for the putts the way I'm doing now. Using it certainly didn't make any great difference (in fact I shot worse) so I don't see the point in relearning how to play this game. I'll eventually get there by feel or I won't. But I'm not starting over again from scratch, especially now that I'm playing on the tour. I'll end up in Z class for sure.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Nov 26, 2015 14:11:06 GMT -5
Okay, I just tried an experiment. I played a round on next week's course that I played the other day and shot 6 under. This round I used the marker on the putts. I moved it in towards the hole in order to get a more "accurate" distance, whatever. I shot 4 under. In fact, I found that some distances that I was used to not using it were now different and I was missing putts by an even greater margin. So either I have to relearn how to play this game using the marker (because it does alter your putts) or just continue not using it and getting a feel for the putts the way I'm doing now. Using it certainly didn't make any great difference (in fact I shot worse) so I don't see the point in relearning how to play this game. I'll eventually get there by feel or I won't. But I'm not starting over again from scratch, especially now that I'm playing on the tour. I'll end up in Z class for sure. Trust me man...moving the marker closer or further away to judge distances is a waste of time if you're not getting it. Go by feel. You'll eventually just be able to move left or right ...aim..and bang those suckers in at an alarming rate. It's all feel.
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Post by TimB on Nov 26, 2015 14:56:44 GMT -5
I have to agree with Jim on this, I never use the marker to go front to back, I move according to the break which is a trial and error and by feel thing. A little example, if I have a left to right break and the beads are moving fairly fast (hard to quantify fairly fast, it takes some practice to get it dialed in) I will move the marker to the left one whole grid box. Then from there it's learning the feel for your distance.
I've got pretty good at putting the ball within a couple inches for a tap in no matter how far away I am, even the very long ones.
Short ones with a bit of break I will over hit it to take the break out of play and just power it in. That can backfire though and blow the ball way past.
Take all this with a grain of salt because I'm only CC-D and not been having great tournaments last couple ones.
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Post by HeMan1202 on Nov 26, 2015 14:59:55 GMT -5
Okay, I just tried an experiment. I played a round on next week's course that I played the other day and shot 6 under. This round I used the marker on the putts. I moved it in towards the hole in order to get a more "accurate" distance, whatever. I shot 4 under. In fact, I found that some distances that I was used to not using it were now different and I was missing putts by an even greater margin. So either I have to relearn how to play this game using the marker (because it does alter your putts) or just continue not using it and getting a feel for the putts the way I'm doing now. Using it certainly didn't make any great difference (in fact I shot worse) so I don't see the point in relearning how to play this game. I'll eventually get there by feel or I won't. But I'm not starting over again from scratch, especially now that I'm playing on the tour. I'll end up in Z class for sure. So this is exactly why I respond negatively to these types of posts and probably come across like a dick. What your really saying is you are not going to learn a method that will make you much better at the game and improve your scores. Instead, you are going to create threads like this one which blames everyone else for being good and calling them cheaters/sandbaggers and blaming TGCT for how the CC Tour is set up. It is completely fine if you want to play the game the way you want, just don't post stupid crap like this complaining.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 15:19:58 GMT -5
Okay, I just tried an experiment. I played a round on next week's course that I played the other day and shot 6 under. This round I used the marker on the putts. I moved it in towards the hole in order to get a more "accurate" distance, whatever. I shot 4 under. In fact, I found that some distances that I was used to not using it were now different and I was missing putts by an even greater margin. So either I have to relearn how to play this game using the marker (because it does alter your putts) or just continue not using it and getting a feel for the putts the way I'm doing now. Using it certainly didn't make any great difference (in fact I shot worse) so I don't see the point in relearning how to play this game. I'll eventually get there by feel or I won't. But I'm not starting over again from scratch, especially now that I'm playing on the tour. I'll end up in Z class for sure. So this is exactly why I respond negatively to these types of posts and probably come across like a dick. What your really saying is you are not going to learn a method that will make you much better at the game and improve your scores. Instead, you are going to create threads like this one which blames everyone else for being good and calling them cheaters/sandbaggers and blaming TGCT for how the CC Tour is set up. It is completely fine if you want to play the game the way you want, just don't post stupid crap like this complaining. How about learning to read? I didn't call anybody a cheater. I said I found it odd that the same people qualifying in my class are shooting -28 to -40 while I'm just about breaking par. If they're that good, why are they in my class? You may not find that odd but I do. And some players above have also said that the marker doesn't help them and they just go by feel. So I guess that makes them crappy players too?
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Post by ABU_Bear on Nov 26, 2015 15:25:57 GMT -5
I liked the 1st version of your post better wagtunes. No harm in calling a spade a spade
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 15:29:19 GMT -5
I liked the 1st version of your post better wagtunes. No harm in calling a spade a spade It's Thanksgiving and I'm just not in the mood for a fight. Besides, some people just aren't worth it. Anyway, I'm practicing that course and outside of hole 16 (how do you cut that corner) I'm not having any real problems with it. I should shoot between -16 and -24 for the 4 rounds. Don't know how good that'll be against the field but it should at least get me in the top 70.
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Post by HeMan1202 on Nov 26, 2015 15:45:29 GMT -5
After getting demoted to E class, I finally shot a decent 4 rounds of 18 under and still didn't make top 70, getting my first demotion strike in this class on my way to getting pushed down to Z class where there are almost no players to compete against. If I'm this bad, fine. I have no problem with that. This is what I do have a problem with. When I went to Q School I shot +83 for my 4 rounds. That's pretty bad. And yet, I qualified for D class. Okay, so I figured +83 must not be all that bad as there are two classes under me. So I figured I was going to go up against players of equal skill. Who was I trying to kid? Here I am shooting like 2 under par for the 4 rounds in my first event and there are guys shooting 50 under. WTF? There is either cheating, sandbagging or something going on around here because there is no way somebody shoots 50 under par and qualifies for D class. My last event, 18 under and STILL missed top 70 by ONE STROKE. Honestly, if I didn't enjoy the game so much (and these courses are really well made) I'd just quit. But something has to be done about the obvious cheating, sandbagging or whatever that's going on around here because it's discouraging the honest players like myself. I am quoting the very first post of this thread. Actually, the last sentence is all anyone needs to read. You ARE in fact saying that people are cheating. Let me explain why I have such an issue with this. I bought TGC in late July and the very same day I began TGCT. I shot a +63 in Q school. I had no idea how to really play the game (by this I mean the elevation/wind calculations and putting calculations). I was put into CC-D. Over the months of Aug/Sep, I learned to pay the game with practice (as much as I could put in with a family) and really dialed in my putting and progressively moved up to CC-A and eventually Web at the end of the season. This is how it goes. CC-D and CC-C are probably where the majority of folks come into and then immediately improve. They are going to put up some good scores because they are getting better. The folks that this affects most are those that are legitimately in those tours trying to move up. I am not sure what the solution would be other than saying do what you can to better your game so you can score better and compete. In the end, I get pissed because you are really calling me a cheater/sandbaggers because I am/was who you were describing in your first post.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Nov 26, 2015 16:12:11 GMT -5
I liked the 1st version of your post better wagtunes. No harm in calling a spade a spade Anyway, I'm practicing that course and outside of hole 16 (how do you cut that corner) I'm not having any real problems with it. I should shoot between -16 and -24 for the 4 rounds. Don't know how good that'll be against the field but it should at least get me in the top 70. If I told you how to cut that corner..then everyone would know and not hit it in the water off the tee Nah...raise a 3 wood and snap hook the crap outa it.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Nov 26, 2015 16:18:29 GMT -5
In the end, I get pissed because you are really calling me a cheater/sandbaggers because I am/was who you were describing in your first post. I believe he just didn't understand how someone in the same flight as him could be that good to shoot -50 and thought something was a muck. I'm pretty sure he's realizing now that there is a log jam at the CC-C and CC-D levels. It's the toughest 2 tiers to graduate from right now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 16:43:05 GMT -5
In the end, I get pissed because you are really calling me a cheater/sandbaggers because I am/was who you were describing in your first post. I believe he just didn't understand how someone in the same flight as him could be that good to shoot -50 and thought something was a muck. I'm pretty sure he's realizing now that there is a log jam at the CC-C and CC-D levels. It's the toughest 2 tiers to graduate from right now. Well, if that's the case then I might as well just try to stay where I am. Even if I make it back into D (I've seen what people shoot there) I'll never stay around. So if I can just stay in E class I'll be happy. Hopefully, one top 30 and then just making top 70 each week will keep me there. Based on my scores so far and where I am, I think I have a good shot at that.
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Post by Doyley on Nov 26, 2015 17:59:32 GMT -5
Trust me man...moving the marker closer or further away to judge distances is a waste of time if you're not getting it. Go by feel. You'll eventually just be able to move left or right ...aim..and bang those suckers in at an alarming rate. It's all feel. Strongly disagree - learning how to properly use the putting marker is the best use of your time in my opinion. It's an aid the game gives you and chosing not to use it is putting you at a disadvantage to all those that do. Need to learn how to use it and go from there - suggest you read my putting page on the Tips/Tricks spreadsheet to get an idea of what to do - then watch a few of the PGA/Euro/Web twitch feeds that are out there and pay attention to what they do with the marker while putting. There are instances where not using the putting marker will hurt you - For example on downhill putts - you'll hit your desired distance but if the marker is close to the hole the game will give you more yardage causing you to miss by 10 feet instead of 2 feet. If you moved the marker closer to you (ie the distance you want to hit the putt) it would then aid you in getting that specific distance instead of you trying to do it no-aids style.
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Post by Doyley on Nov 26, 2015 18:00:47 GMT -5
And some players above have also said that the marker doesn't help them and they just go by feel. So I guess that makes them crappy players too? Those players don't understand it then It'd be like players saying they don't want to use grids on the green because they don't understand reading the dots. They just do the best they can without grids and it's working for them. That is in essence what players are doing if they choose not to use the putting marker north/south. If anyone wants a more in depth tutorial make a post and I'll come on by!
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