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Post by LKeet6 on Sept 19, 2019 1:55:00 GMT -5
mrohde4 I've already said in the past, controller only, hands only. Bringing up other, blatant cheats is not comparable. My point to all this is that it's impossible to base fair play on anything other than the math of the API. Besides, imho, it's quite impossible to police fair play any other way.
@ikeet I couldn't disagree with you more. The in game swing is based on the movement of the stick, period. If using nothing but your hands, move the stick with any technique you want. You're creating, your own, arbitrary rules of how a video game stick should be used, one which I 100% do not ascribe to.
It's not so much "rules," and i'm happy with the rule of pass the API, go about your business; my suggestion is, and i really don't feel this is an out there suggestion, this game is a sports simulation. The makers of the game have CLEARLY tried to replicate a golf swing, and CLEARLY tried to design in a way for players to produce a bad swing that pushes the ball off straight.
That people have found a way to exploit the design and produce a non-full swing, that never goes off straight is CLEARLY a flaw in their attempt to simulate a real golf swing.
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Post by nobluffme on Sept 19, 2019 8:10:07 GMT -5
One thing I love about The Golf Club is the swing method. Was never a fan of the arc method on Tiger Woods games. I’ve golfed since I was 10...some 44 years ago. And I’ve owned about every golf game. The Golf Club is great, but I hate that people have found a way to exploit it. It’s akin to people taking mulligans or foot wedges, then after 18, proudly boasting of breaking 80. Why need to cheat?
Since I joined TGCTOURS just six months ago, I’ve come to realize that the TST is the best way to play. Like IRL, you don’t have beads on a green or telling you via lie view if ball is above/below your feet.
I really believe at the minimum, scout cam should be turned off for all tours. Being able to zoom in for where to place your drive on a dog leg is wrong. Hit your ball and take your medicine where it ends up.
I’d love to see the CC-tours be similar to TST. I know if scout cam, lie grid and green grids were turned off, those people flicking or using rubber bands or whatever will find their edge diminished.
Think about a pressure putt IRL...a ten footer to win a hole. You’re elated when you make it, crushed when you miss. With beads on, where’s the challenge?
just my two cents worth
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Post by flyingj75 on Sept 19, 2019 8:24:02 GMT -5
One thing I love about The Golf Club is the swing method. Was never a fan of the arc method on Tiger Woods games. I’ve golfed since I was 10...some 44 years ago. And I’ve owned about every golf game. The Golf Club is great, but I hate that people have found a way to exploit it. It’s akin to people taking mulligans or foot wedges, then after 18, proudly boasting of breaking 80. Why need to cheat? Since I joined TGCTOURS just six months ago, I’ve come to realize that the TST is the best way to play. Like IRL, you don’t have beads on a green or telling you via lie view if ball is above/below your feet. I really believe at the minimum, scout cam should be turned off for all tours. Being able to zoom in for where to place your drive on a dog leg is wrong. Hit your ball and take your medicine where it ends up. I’d love to see the CC-tours be similar to TST. I know if scout cam, lie grid and green grids were turned off, those people flicking or using rubber bands or whatever will find their edge diminished. Think about a pressure putt IRL...a ten footer to win a hole. You’re elated when you make it, crushed when you miss. With beads on, where’s the challenge? just my two cents worth Agreed except for one aspect. In our regular rounds I believe like you that there is too much information given on the greens, in TST, I'm gonna say that there isn't quite enough. As good as the graphics are, I've seem plenty of putts that you just can't see a damn thing and very good players actually play the break the wrong way. In both modes, I'd prefer something in between.
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Post by CuseHokie on Sept 19, 2019 8:31:33 GMT -5
One thing I love about The Golf Club is the swing method. Was never a fan of the arc method on Tiger Woods games. I’ve golfed since I was 10...some 44 years ago. And I’ve owned about every golf game. The Golf Club is great, but I hate that people have found a way to exploit it. It’s akin to people taking mulligans or foot wedges, then after 18, proudly boasting of breaking 80. Why need to cheat? Since I joined TGCTOURS just six months ago, I’ve come to realize that the TST is the best way to play. Like IRL, you don’t have beads on a green or telling you via lie view if ball is above/below your feet. I really believe at the minimum, scout cam should be turned off for all tours. Being able to zoom in for where to place your drive on a dog leg is wrong. Hit your ball and take your medicine where it ends up. I’d love to see the CC-tours be similar to TST. I know if scout cam, lie grid and green grids were turned off, those people flicking or using rubber bands or whatever will find their edge diminished. Think about a pressure putt IRL...a ten footer to win a hole. You’re elated when you make it, crushed when you miss. With beads on, where’s the challenge? just my two cents worth Agreed except for one aspect. In our regular rounds I believe like you that there is too much information given on the greens, in TST, I'm gonna say that there isn't quite enough. As good as the graphics are, I've seem plenty of putts that you just can't see a damn thing and very good players actually play the break the wrong way. In both modes, I'd prefer something in between. I liked how Wii-golf did it. Some sort of color gradient would be good.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Sept 19, 2019 8:36:21 GMT -5
One thing I love about The Golf Club is the swing method. Was never a fan of the arc method on Tiger Woods games. I’ve golfed since I was 10...some 44 years ago. And I’ve owned about every golf game. The Golf Club is great, but I hate that people have found a way to exploit it. It’s akin to people taking mulligans or foot wedges, then after 18, proudly boasting of breaking 80. Why need to cheat? Since I joined TGCTOURS just six months ago, I’ve come to realize that the TST is the best way to play. Like IRL, you don’t have beads on a green or telling you via lie view if ball is above/below your feet. I really believe at the minimum, scout cam should be turned off for all tours. Being able to zoom in for where to place your drive on a dog leg is wrong. Hit your ball and take your medicine where it ends up. I’d love to see the CC-tours be similar to TST. I know if scout cam, lie grid and green grids were turned off, those people flicking or using rubber bands or whatever will find their edge diminished. To be fully honest, I asked for months to shut off the scout cam, at least on the best tours..but the reason why this thing is not doable is that admins verified that is possible, for PC players, to use a certain kind of cam (always available, I suppose for designing purposes) as a substitute of the scout cam. So they decided to avoid the risk to create just another possible exploit on the game. And I agree. Is sad..but this is the situation. About what you say..sadly (again), I understand what you mean, but at the end of the story is untrue that tougher conditions equalizes the field conditions between us and the cheaters. That coward advantage of flickers always stays and always will make the difference. Is simply absurd to play a golf game having no need to be concerned about your ball..if it goes straight or not. Is just absurd. To be more clear, it could sound just arrogant, but considering my skills, if I should able to hit straight EVERY shot, there is no chance that I could score something worst than a -12 EVERY single round. No chance. -10 if I should play badly. Really, badly. And i would be from the start on PGA Tour, playing for the top 20 every week. This cause almost every issue and flaw I have on my game is 95% of the time related directly to the deviations I suffer on my swing. And I think that the majority of us can claim exactly the same. And is this that makes the game so interesting for me. Cause no matters that I know what to do every time (or almost). I MUST be good enough to actually DO IT. This is the challenge. And is for this that who plays in this way has not excuses for me. They chooses to play just cowardly. And with no respect for the game or for the other players. They are a shame.
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Post by nobluffme on Sept 19, 2019 8:40:08 GMT -5
Agreed except for one aspect. In our regular rounds I believe like you that there is too much information given on the greens, in TST, I'm gonna say that there isn't quite enough. As good as the graphics are, I've seem plenty of putts that you just can't see a damn thing and very good players actually play the break the wrong way. In both modes, I'd prefer something in between. Yes! Maybe green lines, but not the beads. That was a feature you could change on TWG. Lol...only time I curse in a day is playing TST. I’m decent at reading the green under 5 feet and over 20...but between 5-20 feet....forget. Im so appreciative for the great tips from the more experience players here who’ve made some great suggestions how to read. More practice on my part.
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Post by sandsaver01 on Sept 19, 2019 8:46:08 GMT -5
I am not a flicker, nor do I intentionally take advantage of any in game flaws. I am a mediocre at best player so I have no dog in the Pro tours "flicker issue". I would just like to say here that, as interesting reading as these flicker threads are, do they actually DO ANYTHING (except allow people to vent)? Continue on "discussing" if you want, but understand that imho nothing is being accomplished.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 8:52:05 GMT -5
]Just curious Jeff, but do the people who fail the API for flicking all have similar charts in that if you put them on top of each other they would be pretty much the same? Also it is alleged that some top players on PGA flick but have never been pulled, would their charts all line up too or is there the same sort of deviation from high to low but their average is in a different place? Flick swings almost always appear just to the right of center, usually in the yellow to light green sections of the chart. As for the second question, there are some that likely flick but also have more variance than those that flick exclusively so their charts are decidedly one sided but with more bars across the right side. Thanks Jeff, out of interest I just looked at the "Looking at API data" thread you created in the news and announcement section (its on page 3 now) at the start of TGC2. A bunch of those show the decidedly one sided graph. I think someone pointed out it was the top 18 WGR at the time, would have been interesting to see if they were on PS4 and were flickers or if those graphs were off other platforms. I'm guessing you wouldn't remember as it was over 2 years ago now. Anyone who wasn't around in July 2017 should check it out as it was very interesting and had a good debate. I can't post a link but its at the bottom of page 3 on News and announcements.
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Post by cseanny on Sept 19, 2019 11:23:09 GMT -5
nobluffme You can still easily score just as good, or better in TST mode. The only difference is the required preparation time and leg work. sandsaver01 Mostly agreed ^. SmilingGoats posts have made TGCTours position clear enough though. If you pass the fair play policies in effect according to the API then you're 100% welcome to continue playing. Imo, until the new iteration of TGC comes out, life in TGC 2019 will continue as normal (as it should).
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Post by nobluffme on Sept 19, 2019 13:29:47 GMT -5
Ahhh so cheating is ok until you get caught.
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 19, 2019 14:19:48 GMT -5
Ahhh so cheating is ok until you get caught. This No point in trying to reason with cseanny mate. He’s got his own api that he passes and anything else is just binary noise.
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Post by cseanny on Sept 19, 2019 15:44:57 GMT -5
You guys put a smile on my face . So anyone who doesn't agree with you is advocating "cheat until you get caught!". I love this stuff ^. Sounds very similar to the political arena, where, if you like _______ (take your pick), then you're a racist, or you hate women!
Edit: Some people have some very curious thoughts. Why don't we just ask SmilingGoats If a "flicker" passes the API are they considered a cheater by TGCTours current standards?
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Post by SmilingGoats on Sept 19, 2019 15:57:47 GMT -5
If we considered someone a cheater, we would ban them, as we have done numerous times.
I think that answers your question.
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Post by flyingj75 on Sept 19, 2019 17:27:56 GMT -5
If we considered someone a cheater, we would ban them, as we have done numerous times. I think that answers your question. Sooo, taking advantage of an exploit is not cheating in your book, that's fine, it is in mine. Also, just watched the round of a certain player that finished as the best in the world in 2019. On the tee, par 4. Wind going 7 mph across to the left. He swings with his target the center of the fairway. Feed back has the line going halfway up the circle and then fish tailing off to the left and out of the blue, the swing still only finishing halfway up the line. A god awful time to push the ball (he's left handed) cause that push let alone the 7 mph wind will surely take him into the trees on the left side. Nope! Straight down the middle. Over and over again. Truly a dismal swing. Can you explain that? Cause, well, I'm obviously playing a different game. You see in my game, if you push the ball left and add a wind going left, low and behold the damn thing goes left. But, no, nothing to see here.
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Post by paulus on Sept 19, 2019 17:41:57 GMT -5
There's literally petabytes of discussion across almost every competitive game in existence on whether exploits are considered cheating. The overwhelming consensus appears to be yes.
TGCT admin position is understandable tho... if it's unpoliceable, what can you do?
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