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Post by Giraffe72 on Apr 29, 2019 9:02:28 GMT -5
I have an idea: Let’s have a top putters only tour. Take the top 200 players through all tours that have the best putting average. Same principal of the short hitters only club tour. Anyway, that’s off topic slightly. My main gripe was there is too many tours anyway - splitting into three different platforms would be silly when we already have in-game societies that do that. If you want to compete against Xbox-only it is already there for you in-game. Stop hijacking this thread. It's about splitting up the platforms (which I also don't like the idea of, by the way). It's not about letting people on the easy clubs compete on the same leaderboard as the people on the hard setting. That one has been done to death elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 9:03:53 GMT -5
If such a change happened we would no doubt lose a major part of what makes TGCT special. To put this into perspective, I think I'm 2nd after Justin in the PC PGA society this season, and have consistently been in the top 5 for PC PGA events all season. I can say categorically that I have never given a crap about my PC ranking, the only thing I've cared about in terms of rankings / results is the main cross-platform TGCT leaderboard. Doing well on PC just felt like being a big fish in a small pond, nothing to be proud about at all. This is the problem.
There is/was < 10 names consistently at the top of the PC leaderboard this season (Justin, you, me, Mellow, Gemini pre ban, and a few others).
There are very few really competitive Xbox players atm (since Griffin stopped playing)
The hypothetical PC/XB1 PGA Tour would be one hell of a boring place to be, without a high number of competitive interlopers from the PS4.
It's the wrong answer to a totally valid question IMO
Yeah the PGA cutline would probably be +8 for that tour lol, but I'd still vote for boring & fair over the current setup. Same principle for me with pro clubs in the CC divisions which I think is a travesty even though it doesn't affect me whatsoever, it's just not a fair competition when you have such different difficulty levels available in the same league.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 9:06:01 GMT -5
I have an idea: Let’s have a top putters only tour. Take the top 200 players through all tours that have the best putting average. Same principal of the short hitters only club tour. Anyway, that’s off topic slightly. My main gripe was there is too many tours anyway - splitting into three different platforms would be silly when we already have in-game societies that do that. If you want to compete against Xbox-only it is already there for you in-game.Stop hijacking this thread. It's about splitting up the platforms (which I also don't like the idea of, by the way). It's not about letting people on the easy clubs compete on the same leaderboard as the people on the hard setting. That one has been done to death elsewhere. TGCTours should be about who is the best of the best. Not - who is the best on PS4 only or who is the best with pro clubs only. Just all platforms together, all clubs together. I’m not ‘hijacking’ the thread. Just giving my pennies worth. I’ll go back in my hole now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 9:22:47 GMT -5
I have an idea: Let’s have a top putters only tour. Take the top 200 players through all tours that have the best putting average. Same principal of the short hitters only club tour. Anyway, that’s off topic slightly. My main gripe was there is too many tours anyway - splitting into three different platforms would be silly when we already have in-game societies that do that. If you want to compete against Xbox-only it is already there for you in-game. Stop hijacking this thread. It's about splitting up the platforms (which I also don't like the idea of, by the way). It's not about letting people on the easy clubs compete on the same leaderboard as the people on the hard setting. That one has been done to death elsewhere. With out trying to stir the pot here we could say PS 4 easier should not be competing on the the same leaderboard as the two harder platforms 😜
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Post by CiB0RG on Apr 29, 2019 9:30:19 GMT -5
To answer the main questions on this thread:
If the ultimate goal is for the tours to be truly competitive ensuring everyone on a particular tour experiences the same amount of difficulty - YES
If the ultimate goal is to sustain the wholeness of the online community - NO
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 9:35:57 GMT -5
Seems like a good time to throw my $0.02 in...
I'm an Xbox guy and have been since the beginning. I got the game on PC a few months ago for designing and occasionally play some rounds there. I can tell you the tempo is different but not harder or easier. Now I haven't played PS4 but I can see the leader boards just like everybody else and the data seems conclusive.
All that said, I don't like the idea of separate tours by platform. I see a ton of admin work and a lot of disconnected members as a result. I think one alternative would be to provide filtering, sorting, etc on all the various stats and leader boards so that if you are interested in that sort of thing you can see how you stacked up against your own platform without having to go to the extent of separating them physically on the site.
I think if we have learned anything from HB it's that they change things on a whim and without much regard to the affect on a true cross-platform site and experience. That means when/if they release a new game we could be having this debate all over again. I think it makes more sense to build on a foundation of cross-platform competition and allow people to see the leader boards in other ways without actually changing them.
PS4 can continue to taunt me on Xbox and PC and I'm fine with that, if I am overly concerned about it I can always look at the in game society leader board to see how I did.
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Post by LKeet6 on Apr 29, 2019 9:42:35 GMT -5
Personally, this seems a VERY big change, but I'm on PS4, so I guess that's easy for me to say.
Hopefully the next game will not have the same discrepancy; if it does, maybe a forum vote would be most appropriate?
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Apr 29, 2019 9:43:03 GMT -5
This is the problem.
There is/was < 10 names consistently at the top of the PC leaderboard this season (Justin, you, me, Mellow, Gemini pre ban, and a few others).
There are very few really competitive Xbox players atm (since Griffin stopped playing)
The hypothetical PC/XB1 PGA Tour would be one hell of a boring place to be, without a high number of competitive interlopers from the PS4.
It's the wrong answer to a totally valid question IMO
but I'd still vote for boring & fair over the current setup. So you take no pleasure from being at the top of the PC leaderboard (which I understand) but want to move to a system where that's the only leaderboard you'd be on at all
Que?
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Post by cephyn on Apr 29, 2019 9:56:52 GMT -5
Seems this all boils down to "unfair playing field" - its the same debate as the clubset complaints.
But it will never be fully fair. The imbalance can shift - as we've seen from TGC2 to TGC19.
There's some really strong support for splitting the tours by platform, and ALSO splitting the tours by club set. I think doing either wouldn't be great for the site, and doing both would be downright murderous.
But I'm also pretty sure, at this point, that I'm in the minority.
Do what you will, TGCT admins.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 10:01:33 GMT -5
but I'd still vote for boring & fair over the current setup. So you take no pleasure from being at the top of the PC leaderboard (which I understand) but want to move to a system where that's the only leaderboard you'd be on at all
Que?
Where I personally am on which leaderboard is irrelevant, my point is about fairness for the entire playing field. If it was just about what I want I'd want a setup where I'd win every week while being hand-fed grapes by a busty mermaid, but what I personally want isn't the issue here, same as my point about the CC pro/master club debate, it doesn't affect me in the slightest but I'm against it because it's just not a fair competition. Edit: yes I'm a god-damned commie and I'm using commie logic for a literally pointless video game. But the point stands, equality in the playing field is more important for TGCT than whatever my ego prefers. For the game itself, different story, I'm just talking about the TGCT setup.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Apr 29, 2019 10:37:03 GMT -5
So you take no pleasure from being at the top of the PC leaderboard (which I understand) but want to move to a system where that's the only leaderboard you'd be on at all
Que?
Where I personally am on which leaderboard is irrelevant, my point is about fairness for the entire playing field. If it was just about what I want I'd want a setup where I'd win every week while being hand-fed grapes by a busty mermaid, but what I personally want isn't the issue here, same as my point about the CC pro/master club debate, it doesn't affect me in the slightest but I'm against it because it's just not a fair competition. Edit: yes I'm a god-damned commie and I'm using commie logic for a literally pointless video game. But the point stands, equality in the playing field is more important for TGCT than whatever my ego prefers. For the game itself, different story, I'm just talking about the TGCT setup. But you readily admit it would make the whole experience less engaging for you. And for me. And I suspect quite a few others. All in the name of absolute fairness, which is a unicorn.
There will always be people who find something unfair. If we separate the tours, there will then be complaints that PC is easier than XB or something else. It's the nature of the beast.
I understand the argument, but fundamentally changing what TGCT is to chase a fairness that doesn't really exist is a step too far IMHO. Anyone who feels their equipment is holding them back is free to switch if they so choose.
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Post by JosiaDB on Apr 29, 2019 10:41:13 GMT -5
From Doyley- "4 separate tours by Clubset Difficulty Beginner (all systems) Pro (all systems) Master (PS4) Master (XB1/PC combined)
All 4 would top out at the PGA and then have as many tours below as required by participation. "
Well I for one am elated to read this. The way I read that, all the club types, and systems, will have their own sub tours, but at the top, it will be cross platform
To me, thats the best of all the worlds. If you can make it to the top, where you guys want to be serious about it, the go for it, you have your competition. But for those of us that are simply tired of competing on an uneven/unfair basis, we have a place to do so.
I had pretty much decided that I was going to quit after this season, perhaps even before, if a change like this was not made. I'm not concerned about playing in the PGA. All I want is to be able to play others on a weekly basis, using the same clubs that I do, and without the tempo advantage that the PS4 seems to give. Thats it. I love the competition, but I wanna play masters clubs, and I'm not going out and buying a PS4 just to play a golf game.
If raindrops were like gumdrops and I could anything, I wanted, I'd love to see a seniors tour, where those of us that do have limitations like loss of reflexes, thumb twitches, etc, could happily be, but thats ok, just a personal thing there. My guess is that someone would come in and say they had a problem just to sandbag and win. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 10:52:26 GMT -5
Where I personally am on which leaderboard is irrelevant, my point is about fairness for the entire playing field. If it was just about what I want I'd want a setup where I'd win every week while being hand-fed grapes by a busty mermaid, but what I personally want isn't the issue here, same as my point about the CC pro/master club debate, it doesn't affect me in the slightest but I'm against it because it's just not a fair competition. Edit: yes I'm a god-damned commie and I'm using commie logic for a literally pointless video game. But the point stands, equality in the playing field is more important for TGCT than whatever my ego prefers. For the game itself, different story, I'm just talking about the TGCT setup. But you readily admit it would make the whole experience less engaging for you. And for me. And I suspect quite a few others. All in the name of absolute fairness, which is a unicorn.
There will always be people who find something unfair. If we separate the tours, there will then be complaints that PC is easier than XB or something else. It's the nature of the beast.
I understand the argument, but fundamentally changing what TGCT is to chase a fairness that doesn't really exist is a step too far IMHO. Anyone who feels their equipment is holding them back is free to switch if they so choose.
Re: bold part, stats have shown that XB1 and PC are more or less on an even playing field, same ball park at least, so anybody complaining about one being harder than the other can just be reminded of the PS4 stats and shut the hell up lol. I don't think we should be concerned about whingers (hell, the PS4 anti-short swinging squad has been way more vocal than XB1 players, and that debate affects like 20 people out of thousands) but demonstrable fairness, and we have something close to that with PC and XB1. But PS4 players have a whole different experience - IIRC Tim cited the craziest stat of all which was that half the PS4 player base had better tempo than all but the best 3 or 4 XB1 players. It's a joke. As I mentioned earlier, believe me I wish this wasn't even a topic of discussion because I love the multi-platform idea of TGCT, and I wouldn't even care if the difference between platforms were small, but sadly it's not.
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Post by paulus on Apr 29, 2019 10:57:54 GMT -5
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Post by catcherman22 on Apr 29, 2019 11:02:10 GMT -5
This, in my opinion, is probably the answer... Especially if we can code it so there's rankings by console as well.
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