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Post by tastegw on Jan 22, 2017 7:13:28 GMT -5
SAM I have a ton of things to say to you, and this would have been handled privately, if it wasn't for your blatant lies and rumors that you have been spreading in the last 24 hours. so let me start with this little bit of yours: Tasty G Double U is just an agenda driven spin doctor who's very clever when it comes to a bit of techy software. In the Summer Showdown design competition final stages he tried the dirty sleaze campaign videos..... remember? People saw through him & it backfired spectacularly when the votes were counted. He gets a kick out of what he does...... Just WTF is that? I am not going to stoop to your level and start name calling, but i seriously have to question your intelligence or your comprehension. Videos: Dont Vote for Sam Dont Vote for Canuck Dont Vote for ReebdoogDid you really think those videos were serious in any way? Did you really think those videos were my evil plot to steal votes away from you and the others? If you could get off your high horse for a minute, you would see these videos were made to actually help you out, help you, reeb, and canuck get more votes, not less votes, but more votes by letting people know there was something to vote on. How could anyone come to any other conclusion? These videos were posted in General chat to alert members who do not frequent the designer forums that there was a contest going on and we needed votes. You say this backfired on me? how does helping out all of us backfire on me? I knew i had no chance of winning a public vote, i said that before the voting began. someobody who is as unpopular as me winning any sort of public vote? ya right, you dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. the most popular guy won, and by a landslide, who would have thunk that? huh? (canuck, im not trying to dismiss your course here, it was well worthy of the crown) That right there tells me your intelligence isn't even high enough to have a civilized constructive conversation, so there really isnt much point to what comes next below, but I will try anyways. I run a sorta "get out and rock the vote" mini campaign and mr SAM here thinks it was trying to dirty up the contest. Lets move on sam, You know something sam, Not one designer in this contest did i have any personal beef with in the slightest, sadly i can't say that anymore. summer showdown results has zero to do with anything. do you honestly think that you getting more public votes than me makes me what to be out to get you on a personal level? do you really think that? because that is the vibe you are giving off. so lets stay on that very logic for a minute shall we. if this held true, wouldnt i be doing the exact same things to reeb and canuck? wouldnt i be trashing their work out of spite as well? i mean, they both beat me as well right? why is this logic of yours only applying to yourself and not the others? doesnt make any sense in the slightest does it. I have never ever had any issues with you personally, before these last 24 hours, please link me to something I did that says otherwise, because its pretty clear you think i was out to get you for some sort of revenge or payback. lets back up for just a second, lets just say i really was out to get you before this contest started, dont you think I would have done your course first or close to first? or is your logic that i was evily trying to plot an evil plot and hide it near the back so nobody would see it... oh please. now lets talk about your reaction to the score i gave your course Here you go laughing at a score i gave your course, a score that still had a green thumbs up at the end of the video, and its so low its laughable to you. please do tell me what score your course deserves and I will change it for you, because 75 is obviously such a terrible score, especially for a well versed designer such as yourself who is so damn good at designing, he brings a straight oval shape green to his first hole and can't even line it up straight inside the fairway ribbon used around it. I was going to do these reviews regardless of when my course was knocked out, i was actually going to do them for the summer showdown too, but things came up and i never got around to it. So, without name calling and meaningless insults, can you please tell me why you think your course is way beyond the likes of a 75? in fact, nobody, dont a @!$#ing soul has come in here disputing anything i have said other than they disagree or dislike my comments. not a damn soul. I gave every designer in the contest an equal chance at impressing me, every damn one, I held zero bias, everything i said about every course was 100% how i saw it, nothing less, and nothing more, and it did not matter who the designer was, friends or no friends. that fact of the matter is,......your course is average at best in my opinion. the texture work, the sculpting and the layout was just not great. the only real positive i saw was the planting, the port looked good, and i said that in the damn video did i not? but i look past all the background imagery and see the course for what it really is. take away the planting on your course, and its average at best, no skilled designer can honestly argue that. the sculpting work is not good, the texture work is terrible in spots, the layout is near cartoonish with all the useless options off the teebox. who needs 5 fairways for one hole? especially when only 1 of the fairways makes any sense at all? thus, average course, average score, 75 was the bang average score i was giving out, i said that many times thoughout the series, below 75 was thumbs down, and 75 and higher was green thumbs up. I tell you what son, lets do this right here: you take your course, ramp it up to firm settings with the same speeds i used on my greens, you switch your texture colors to the ones i was using, and i do the same thing with my course, i set it to the same settings you had on your course, and i switch my texture colors to the colors you used and lets see how good your course really is compared to what you just called: you wanna do that? i will put a hundred bucks on it we swap colors and conditions, everything else remains the same, you up for it? as to the others who tossed out personal insults and misinformation out of spite, its ok, i know it was emotion getting the best of you. but as for you sam, you crossed the line, there is no forgiveness here for you.
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Post by tastegw on Jan 22, 2017 7:48:01 GMT -5
Sam, lets continue the discussion about your course score. lets inspect just two aspects of the opening hole, hole 1, the hole that sets the tone for the rest of the course: can i please get a show of hands of everyone who thinks this is talent of any sort? anyone think its creative? skilled? worthy of any sort of praise? anyone? chirp chirp. see for yourself sam, the overhead shows a truth. that 45 yard long oval shaped green of yours, and you can't even be bothered to space it in the fairway ribbon around it, but yet, you feel your course is just leaps and bounds above what it was graded at. same hole, fairway sculpting: the edge of the fairway is jacked up, it was either ignored or just bad sculpting all together, the image does not do this section of fairway justice, in different lighting you would clearly see the edge of the fairway ramping up to the rough at a near 45 degree angle. lets move on to hole 2: check out this fantastic hole routing! the left side fairway is 100% useless for all tee boxes. even from the tips, you can't hit a driver there without over shooting the fairway, in short, that section of fairway can only be reached with a 3w or less, being this is an uphill par 5, why would anyone want to lay up with a 3 wood and go out of route at the same time to get a little be of height advantage? care to explain that? what about the players hitting from the other tees even closer? they would need to hit an iron up there, why the hell would they even consider that when they can pound out an extra 50+ yards just hitting it straight. is this your way of getting creative? making useless sections of your course that would never ever get played? just to piss off the grounds crew and give them extra mowing duties? I can go on if you really want me to, ill go though all 18 holes and point out exactly why this is not an elite level course and well deserving of a bang average score that i gave it.
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Post by SAM on Jan 22, 2017 8:01:16 GMT -5
.............but as for you sam, you crossed the line, there is no forgiveness here for you. Good.... Mission accomplished! I feel we're equal now..... You're feeling, like you made me (& several others in my opinion) feel. Why is it ok! for you to cross the line but nobody else? Play your childish, spin doctoring mind games as much as you like...... I've had my say (which I'm entitled to)... you've had yours. So, like I already said - we're equal now. I've climbed off my high horse - yours is perpetual I believe. *Note: No further open forum communication will take place on my part..... Good day to you Sir!
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Post by tastegw on Jan 22, 2017 8:04:53 GMT -5
what line did i cross sam? i gave my opinions about courses, you spewed out personal insults and lies, can you not see the difference?
we are not equal, not in any way shape or form. the only spindoctoring here is what you have brought to the table
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Post by Clint Kelso on Jan 22, 2017 8:17:06 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be an ass here, Bradley, but you've actually gotten quite a bit of feedback...you've just chosen to lock on to 2 very minor things and apparently ignore everything else. If you think that taste isn't going to comment on some of the same things or spank your arse even a little harder you're kidding yourself. Example: everybody...and I mean EVERBODY has made a comment about not being able to see the green off the tee box on hole 12. A few of them have been VERY accomplished designers. Instead of acknowledging said feedback you instead chose to explain how we should be using different a multiple camera angles to see the green. I'm not exactly sure what feedback you're looking for unless you're wanting somebody to praise every single design decision you made. I'd be happy to give you a very thorough run through that points out every nit-picky thing, but I don't get the feeling that you'd be very receptive to that either. *shrug*...sorry you had a bad experience in the contest, man. Griff, I have been taking in all of the feedback about my course from here and elsewhere and I will try to respond to more of it when I get a little bit of free time. I only "latched on" to those two points (rakes and visibility from the tee on the 16th) because they are both 100% wrong. The visibility from every one of my teeboxes is just fine and you know it. I've played from all 112 of them without the use of the scout cam and had no issue seeing my targets. You and others use the scout cam as a crutch in both your design and your play and then complain when a default camera angle doesn't show the target properly as if it's a flaw in my design? Seriously? And then let's take the darling of Group E, Braes of Sutherland. I get to the 5th hole and it is COMPLETELY BLIND! Those of us who play without these aids have no way whatsoever to play this hole...I'm sorry Adam, but I quit my round at this point (although I did come back later and give it a play on the PS4). You cannot see a single speck of fairway or green from the teebox in ANY of the four camera angles. But you make absolutely no mention of this in your playthrough of Braes that you posted, Griff. Why the double standard? And by the way, I didn't have a bad experience with your contest. I believe that The Bait Shop has received much more exposure via this contest than it would have if I had just published normally. With that said, I will go over some of the other design issues that you and others have pointed out about the course sometime in the near future. But probably not here, as it looks like this thread is about to get ugly. Have fun guys. why are u completely reluctant to see anyone else's opinion your can't be defensive and argumentative all the time. If everyone says the same thing. Maybe there is truth to it. Just my opinion. Cheers
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Post by Clint Kelso on Jan 22, 2017 8:22:59 GMT -5
nevadaballin jivesinator reebdoog overr8edplaya ACES-R-WILD drivert pablo B.Smooth13 scampi00 mayday_golf83 titaneddie adamhill413 Moe Slorkman misternic bradleystuart bigcat023 DoubtfulObelisk GrumpyOldMan Clint Kelso rhino4life pyates mrooola callmecutout HootbleetOk, im back home now and have a chance to respond to all this utter nonsense that has been typed by various people over the last 24 hours. First, I would like to apologize to all the designers in griff's contest, it's been said by a few people that the only intentions for this series of mine was to undermine or disrespect griff and/or his judges. this could not be further from the truth. I have a great deal of respect for griff and the judges, judging is a thankless job, as you can obviously see here and elsewhere. With that said, I have decided not to continue on with this series, because i know i can't convince anyone that this was not to undermine the real contest, there is no reason to continue, its a lose lose for me. I lose by quitting the series, and i lose by continuing the series, so i apologize for not seeing it through. now, with that out of the way, I have updated the first two posts in this thread accordingly. i have removed all scores from said courses. I am also willing to remove any designers videos from both this thread and from youtube if they wish me to, just send me a pm and no questions asked. the next bit of this response deserves another post. when did everyone become children. This is an open forum. Taste u are entitled to do whatever series u see fit. Designers u are entitled not to watch just as each of u are entitled to review tastes course. But when did our skin get so soft that we can't say what we feel. Taste you gave me a 69 and I can't argue with anything u said. I actually enjoyed watching the video. Can u please put my score back up. Think is very deservable. My first course and I'm OK with that. I have a starting point and I can only get better now. Last think I'm gonna say. If your soft and can't take criticism. Then u should probably stay off of forums. Grow up and take it like a man. Speak to him in private about how u feel. Or take what he offered and make yourself better. Good day gents
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Post by mrooola on Jan 22, 2017 8:39:25 GMT -5
God damn it. Why am I getting tje short stick throughout this entire competition? I know that whatever taste does is outside of the actual competition, but still.
I don't agree with some of the judges comments on a fair few of the matchups and I don't agree on a fair amount of comments by taste in his conclusions either. In fact, I think that some of them are comical based on his own comments towards the judges on his own course. That all is ok. You don't have to agree. You dont have to listen. You don't need to care. Get over it. He does his thing and he calls it as he sees it. So does all of us. Difference is. These guys does it openly and agree or not that is a positive thing for the community.
What is pissing me off at the moment is that whatever feedback I getting is through the judges. Griff didn't get to be completely honest in his stream and now taste won't do his. cannuck might still do his, but I wouldn't bet money on it seeing how this is shaping up.
I don't blame taste or griff or any of the judges either. I mostly blame my fellow designers and not any single one at that. I blame all of you who can't look past one persons opinion and scream foul and take it as personal insults. FU all!
I enter competitions for a few reasons. I usually get great feedback of how many look at my courses. I get to compare my work with others and I push myself to actually completing a project. Feedback though, be it of the developmental kind or the motivational kind is all the same to me. In the end i pick and choose what I want to take with me for my next build.
I'm a tad more emotional this week due to a tragedy at work, but I just want to end this little post by again saying thank you to all you twats for taking away whatever reason I had to enter and NONE of my issues is with anyone who offers up feedback how ever out of place it is.
Now I'll go away for a while again I think..
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Post by SAM on Jan 22, 2017 8:46:22 GMT -5
Clint.... (edit: & Ola - you posted while I was mid constructively writing)......... I couldn't give a toss what rating he gave my course, or anybody else's to be honest. It's the manner in which he does it - ridiculing, belittling, lambasting & down right mockingly. That's not even my biggest beef with his childish series....... It's the fact that he hijacked the contest for his own purpose & even had the indecency to offer a valuable prize. He rained on the parade - stole the limelight & all because he didn't like the results of his group. Totally immoral in my opinion & I'm glad I said what I did to quash the whole charade before he had time to finish. In a way his decision to do group G before his own (H) aided the outcome. I watched every video & whist there was some decent & constructive feedback - other parts were so non constructive it was at times (in my opinion) embarrassing. I'm just a small fish in a giant pond - but I felt compelled to speak my mind & I'm glad I did. If it's any consolation to you... I hope Silent Ivy beats Port Sunlight & you progress to the next round... good luck! Let's let it go now & enjoy the rest of the official Invicta competition.
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Post by jivesinator on Jan 22, 2017 9:17:01 GMT -5
all this leaves me with one unanswered question... who gets the razor headset?
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Jan 22, 2017 9:21:18 GMT -5
Ola is right. This is the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time. One guy made videos of his own opinions n done in a way that's like a Comedy Central roast and we have it taken away because it's not done the way other people want it done. Sigh. Do whatever you want. Pretend your defending someone or something even though nobody asked to be defended. Pretend it's only sour grapes from taste and that it has nothing to do with your own feelings being hurt. You made something for public consumption and now think that you can decide how it's received or commented on. Whatever. This wasn't rume ning the contest at all. It can only ruin things for those that allowed it to. I'm done replying because this is just ridiculous. I'm wondering if I should do a freaking video series. I don't say things they way taste does but I probably lose you guys it would be no less critical. Wonder if it truly is the style and isn't in any way related to his actual scoring.
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Post by tastegw on Jan 22, 2017 9:22:17 GMT -5
Clint.... I couldn't give a toss what rating he gave my course, or anybody else's to be honest. I couldn't say it before he recorded & uploaded my track because it would have washed down the sour grapes which is it sam? more dishonesty from you? now you could't give a toss, or you did not want to say anything before i reviewed your course? you got some more insults for me? you are very clever at tossing them out bud. this is all very confusing to me, you had zero problems with this series until i reviewed your course, you said absolutely nothing. then after your course gets a score, you go on a rampage in multiple threads across the forums spreading lies and hate towards me, all because i did not think your course deserved what, a score of 90+? or do you really care and really wanted to say something but was too afraid that it would influence your score beforehand? which is it man, you can't say you dont care, and at the same time, say you wanted to say something but was too afraid of backlash. is this just dishonesty on your part or another part of your spindoctoring that you claim im the one doing?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 9:33:31 GMT -5
Having a slow, boring morning before going to church, I stumbled onto this thread.
Seems some people here have a thin skin. Course design is tough, which is why I haven't been back to the GNCD in like a year. I have no talent for this, realized it, and instead stuck to just improving my game, which I've done.
I marvel at some of the stunning courses I've had the pleasure of playing since on the tour. I know I take them for granted. But after playing some really BAD courses, especially my own, I have a newfound appreciation for the work that goes into these.
The following designers I especially want to tip my cap to.
Reebdoog CrazyCanuck Tastegw DDawg
I almost know the course is yours just by looking at it.
If I haven't mentioned your name, it's probably because you either don't design on PC or I just missed you. But I know there are others here who make some amazing courses.
For the rest of you, here's my advice. And this is coming from somebody who knew well enough to just put the GNCD to rest and never open it up again. Take the criticism to heart. Make note of what is suggested to work on. If it really means enough to you to want to build a truly exceptional course, you'll listen to what's being said.
And with that, I'm going to start packing up to head to church.
Have a nice day folks.
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Post by nevadaballin on Jan 22, 2017 9:37:40 GMT -5
6:30 in the morning and I feel the need for some popcorn.
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Post by nevadaballin on Jan 22, 2017 9:52:40 GMT -5
nevadaballin jivesinator reebdoog overr8edplaya ACES-R-WILD drivert pablo B.Smooth13 scampi00 mayday_golf83 titaneddie adamhill413 Moe Slorkman misternic bradleystuart bigcat023 DoubtfulObelisk GrumpyOldMan Clint Kelso rhino4life pyates mrooola callmecutout Hootbleet Ok, im back home now and have a chance to respond to all this utter nonsense that has been typed by various people over the last 24 hours. First, I would like to apologize to all the designers in griff's contest, it's been said by a few people that the only intentions for this series of mine was to undermine or disrespect griff and/or his judges. this could not be further from the truth. I have a great deal of respect for griff and the judges, judging is a thankless job, as you can obviously see here and elsewhere. With that said, I have decided not to continue on with this series, because i know i can't convince anyone that this was not to undermine the real contest, there is no reason to continue, its a lose lose for me. I lose by quitting the series, and i lose by continuing the series, so i apologize for not seeing it through. now, with that out of the way, I have updated the first two posts in this thread accordingly. i have removed all scores from said courses. I am also willing to remove any designers videos from both this thread and from youtube if they wish me to, just send me a pm and no questions asked. the next bit of this response deserves another post. when did everyone become children. This is an open forum. Taste u are entitled to do whatever series u see fit. Designers u are entitled not to watch just as each of u are entitled to review tastes course. But when did our skin get so soft that we can't say what we feel. Taste you gave me a 69 and I can't argue with anything u said. I actually enjoyed watching the video. Can u please put my score back up. Think is very deservable. My first course and I'm OK with that. I have a starting point and I can only get better now. Last think I'm gonna say. If your soft and can't take criticism. Then u should probably stay off of forums. Grow up and take it like a man. Speak to him in private about how u feel. Or take what he offered and make yourself better. Good day gents Put my score back too. I haven't even seen the review for my course yet but he's certainly entitled to score it as he pleases. I just want to have a blunt while I watch it so i can handle the feedback that i know is in there
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 13:37:40 GMT -5
Ola is right. This is the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time. One guy made videos of his own opinions n done in a way that's like a Comedy Central roast and we have it taken away because it's not done the way other people want it done. Sigh. Do whatever you want. Pretend your defending someone or something even though nobody asked to be defended. Pretend it's only sour grapes from taste and that it has nothing to do with your own feelings being hurt. You made something for public consumption and now think that you can decide how it's received or commented on. Whatever. This wasn't rume ning the contest at all. It can only ruin things for those that allowed it to. I'm done replying because this is just ridiculous. I'm wondering if I should do a freaking video series. I don't say things they way taste does but I probably lose you guys it would be no less critical. Wonder if it truly is the style and isn't in any way related to his actual scoring. I seem to remember the thrashing I received during the Summer Shootout. I was the "Bastard" in the room ... I was the lowest form of pond scum in the forum. Why, because I called out some "ridicules" that were totally unfounded about my course entry. If I recollect, The course was called flat-ish (or too flat) and had too many restrooms (4 total). And, I dared point out the flaws in their judgement. I was deemed a whiner, and lost the respect of the TGCT/HB fanboy clique. Newsflash: I never had much respect from most of the fanboy community. Why, Because I have always called it like it was. I have since stopped saying anything (well almost anything) ... about OPC's (Other peoples courses) ... everyone wants to be reviewed until you say anything they don't want to hear. I don't mind it myself, but I don't want to hear bullshit that isn't true. A few in this place, feel they are above all others ... find themselves the "pillars" of the community. I have seen and played their courses, and have opinions of their designs they would not agree with as well. I will not expand on this. Personally, I find those that cast stones usually have glass jaws. As with most contest, EGOS become larger than life. Some go to extremes to think they're the best. Keyword: Think. The bottom line is, with any contest - without a clearly defined "Set of Rules/criteria" that is to attempt to slow down some of the issues that arise, - not having a group judging panel, that have had at least a hundred hours of experience in the GNCD ... knowing the pitfalls and inner workings, of what it takes to make a decent designed course. Playing a ton of courses is not the same. (this opinion is subjective as with most opinions). [C] - not having a way to remove the "Name" of the designer, from the published contest course (removing the "fanboy" bump factor). Most all contest will be somewhat tainted. There will always be someone to be "butt-hurt" for various reasons. It is human nature. When you add prize money and/or valuables into the mix, it gets even worse. Especially, in a contest that is based on subjectivity and egos. When you put your ass out on the line, to critique someone's work, you better be able to take what is coming back at you in spades. And, several cannot handle that worth a damn. Having said this, I can see a future filled with continued ridicule, instantaneous poor ratings, or the straight out "Black listing" of anything I may post, or publish. It doesn't bother me much, as it did in the beginning. I am used to this type of expected behavior. So, I have seen it before, and I will most assuredly, not be surprised by what new behaviors that may come down the pipe ... Taste has a different style on his delivery, he can be a little brash and over the top, but from a designer's perspective. He is spot on 95% of the time, and he does so "bias free", majority of the time. There will always be a subjective element in judging and critiques, far as designer methodologies and concepts is concerned. Jeremy and Bryan, are "true pillars" of the GNCD (I studied their course designs (along with a couple of others), learned and copied their styles, and created my own from them) ... My skills still pale in comparison. Same goes in real world course design. Nicklaus, Dye, Palmer, Norman ---- all have their own Ideas on what makes a course great, yet, they all follow certain basic criteria guidelines. Why would anyone expect it to be different in a course designed by a group of amateurs like ourselves? I am sure, there is not one of us, that has made millions designing real world courses. time to step away from keyboard, now that I have succeeded to fuel the fire ... a tad more.
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