mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279 
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Oct 9, 2016 23:41:24 GMT -5
Just start a contest for rookies who never made a course. It still aint fair if there comes a contest for everyone...some new designers have no chance whatsoever against the veterans...totaly unfair. Some can compete, but not all can...I like to see two kinds of contest, a Rookie and a Veteran. Veterans know what they are doing, some new designers can still use some help. Also good idea is some kind of small Rookie contest with three holes or something or 6, maybe 9 for a start. There should be defo some kind of Course Critiques....something what Canuck was doing...I realy like that show and I miss It. I will be placing a post offering critiques in the next week. I'll do my best to stream them as often as I can. As to the idea of a rookie design contest, I'll gladly assist in one, but I have no interest in hosting one. You or anybody else is more than welcome and capable of starting one...just vet out your judges and have a schedule you can stick to. I personally think a contest like that should be in stages so that the "rookie" designers can actually learn and make changes as they go along. Otherwise you may or may not end up with a collection of courses that are what they are. I am in no way trying to sound condescending or "elitist" about it, but I'm not sure a contest is where newer designers are actually going to get better. I can do a more effective job of helping said designers by answering questions while they are working on their course or giving feedback in playthroughs than I can in judging said course in a contest. As I said before, I would be happy to help support a rookie contest, but hosting one is probably out of my wheelhouse at the moment. **EDIT: A "mentor contest" could be a fun idea if you can find enough people willing to help. Pair a rookie with a vet, the vet being the mentor. The mentor can do no design on the course, cannot provide the layout or routing, cannot provide the "vision" or concept behind the course, but can give feedback on basics like bunkering, greens, fairway shapes and edging, etc. Might not be the way I would personally approach a contest like that, but it could be a fun way to pull one off. Well Griff, having participated in HB's rookie contest, I've got to disagree, too a point, and it starts as what we define as a "rookie." The HB contest for instance wasn't limited to "new" designers or those who had never published a course, just those who had not entered a contest either HB or TCGT. I'd fiddled around in the designer for about 10 months before breaking my maiden in that contest. As for the contest, we had 15 entered. Of those 12 made deadline. The 12 courses split right down the middle, with six really nice looking courses and six that clearly had some rookie errors. I know at least a couple of those courses (my Laurel Run and ErixonStone 's El Toro) got tour stops here. For me, doing some independent study of some tutorials from Crazy, Arctic Fury and others helped during the design process and HB Keith's playthoughts afterward allowed me to pick up on some other aspects I hadn't considered previously, which I tried to incorporate into Noelle Valley. To Errol's point, that rookie contest helped my confidence as a designer immensely and I know I would have never thought of taking on the CC Showdown if I hadn't felt like I had done well in the rookie contest first (signup for CC took place after deadline for the rookie contest, but before final results were announced). The mentor idea is an interesting concept, as would judging/eliminating at various points in the design process. Something like a "Next TGC Design Star" format. Have a different focus of the contest each round (routing, sculpting, planting, bunkering, green complex, etc.) and build until the final two have 9-or-18 hole courses for a head-to-head showdown. Not sure I'd have Time to coordinate one, but as I said previously, would gladly volunteer to judge. |
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Post by coggin66 on Oct 12, 2016 22:20:05 GMT -5
The progressive 3 hole tournament that HB did a few years back was alot of fun. It feels like years ago but it was only 12 months ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 19:16:05 GMT -5
Just start a contest for rookies who never made a course. It still aint fair if there comes a contest for everyone...some new designers have no chance whatsoever against the veterans...totaly unfair. Some can compete, but not all can...I like to see two kinds of contest, a Rookie and a Veteran. Veterans know what they are doing, some new designers can still use some help. Also good idea is some kind of small Rookie contest with three holes or something or 6, maybe 9 for a start. There should be defo some kind of Course Critiques....something what Canuck was doing...I realy like that show and I miss It. Sign up here if interested in a streamed feedback session: feedback |
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Post by scampi00 on Oct 13, 2016 19:38:48 GMT -5
The progressive 3 hole tournament that HB did a few years back was alot of fun. It feels like years ago but it was only 12 months ago. Eesh. Time flies huh? |
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Oct 14, 2016 9:49:28 GMT -5
Just start a contest for rookies who never made a course. It still aint fair if there comes a contest for everyone...some new designers have no chance whatsoever against the veterans...totaly unfair. Some can compete, but not all can...I like to see two kinds of contest, a Rookie and a Veteran. Veterans know what they are doing, some new designers can still use some help. Also good idea is some kind of small Rookie contest with three holes or something or 6, maybe 9 for a start. There should be defo some kind of Course Critiques....something what Canuck was doing...I realy like that show and I miss It. Sorry but the winner of the web comp had made 1 course before the comp. Actually pyates was the only "veteran" in the top 5 I believe so your presumptions are bullhooks mate! I was going to do a not on tour designer showcase comp upon my return going 1/3/6/9/15/18 holes with lads getting cut every forthnight till we had a winner that i would get on a tour stop. Would that be to your liking? |
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Post by Errol1967 on Oct 14, 2016 9:55:55 GMT -5
What do you mean?
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Post by ErixonStone on Oct 14, 2016 18:43:44 GMT -5
Not that long ago, I struggled to get plays on my courses. I knew I was improving as a designer, but with dozens of courses being published every week, it was difficult to get more than one or two comments about my course. I got nothing helpful - just a polite "well done I had fun playing."
To get some plays and some helpful comments, I felt I needed to join a contest. Boy was I disappointed that the next one was the Olympics and to qualify, I would have needed to already have hosted a tournament.
Thankfully, Keith ran a contest for designers who hadn't been in one before. I didn't place all that well which was a credit to the other designers in the contest, but I did get some plays and some useful feedback. One of the schedulers liked the course enough to have it host an event, and from there, an alternate edition was pegged for one of the community-run events after a Ranger played the course with different settings.
Recently, we just wrapped up the CC Design Showdown where a couple of lesser known designers put out excellent tracks certainly worthy of tour stops. Even my course that didn't make it out of the first round was picked up by a tour and a community-run event.
I guess my point is that designers who struggle for plays and feedback really should participate, even if they feel like they are overmatched by the competition. I don't think it matters whether you do well in the contest because you're going to get plays and feedback, plus, the contest judges will likely be the same folks who are working to build this season's schedule or community events.
If your course is good, you'll get noticed. If your course is not good, then take the criticism and use it to improve your designs. Don't worry about the competition - you're participating in order to get plays and feedback. You'll get that no matter who else is competing.
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Post by mrooola on Oct 14, 2016 19:01:03 GMT -5
Not that long ago, I struggled to get plays on my courses. I knew I was improving as a designer, but with dozens of courses being published every week, it was difficult to get more than one or two comments about my course. I got nothing helpful - just a polite "well done I had fun playing." To get some plays and some helpful comments, I felt I needed to join a contest. Boy was I disappointed that the next one was the Olympics and to qualify, I would have needed to already have hosted a tournament. Thankfully, Keith ran a contest for designers who hadn't been in one before. I didn't place all that well which was a credit to the other designers in the contest, but I did get some plays and some useful feedback. One of the schedulers liked the course enough to have it host an event, and from there, an alternate edition was pegged for one of the community-run events after a Ranger played the course with different settings. Recently, we just wrapped up the CC Design Showdown where a couple of lesser known designers put out excellent tracks certainly worthy of tour stops. Even my course that didn't make it out of the first round was picked up by a tour and a community-run event. I guess my point is that designers who struggle for plays and feedback really should participate, even if they feel like they are overmatched by the competition. I don't think it matters whether you do well in the contest because you're going to get plays and feedback, plus, the contest judges will likely be the same folks who are working to build this season's schedule or community events. If your course is good, you'll get noticed. If your course is not good, then take the criticism and use it to improve your designs. Don't worry about the competition - you're participating in order to get plays and feedback. You'll get that no matter who else is competing. Couldn't agree more. My first competition was the TGCTLive 9 hole, random theme competition. Ended up in second place and since I've had 3 courses on tour. Doubt I would have unless I threw myself out there. The feedback and input along with the exposure was huge for me. That's why I tend to jump on all these competitions whenever they show up. I learn from them all. Haven't done extremely well since that first one, but I've had fun and that's what's most important. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 19:37:40 GMT -5
Are you guys familiar with Invicta watches? If so, would you like to win one?
I have an idea for a contest, but not quite ready to launch it. If...IF I do, do you guys prefer the traditional list ranking or the knockout format?
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Post by mrooola on Oct 15, 2016 2:01:38 GMT -5
Are you guys familiar with Invicta watches? If so, would you like to win one? I have an idea for a contest, but not quite ready to launch it. If...IF I do, do you guys prefer the traditional list ranking or the knockout format? Having prizes is really cool and all, but personally I don't care. When there is money involved people tend to get more butt hurt than usual if things isn't working out for them. Looks like a watch many would like though. I know nothing about them. You have some sort of business relation? |
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Post by titaneddie on Oct 15, 2016 9:30:59 GMT -5
For me, I kind of liked the knock out format because it madeit seem like I had more of a chance to advance and match ups kinda get a spotlight. But I could see how it's not really fair to the "big dogs" who run into each other early like what happened to Setmypath.
Mrooola I'd like to think that no one really cares about the prize and it's probably not necessary, but having it to keep things interesting is always fun. I guess it's just cause my friends and I put wagers on whatever we do, even its just a round a drinks to keep people interested in whatever competition it is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 9:44:25 GMT -5
Are you guys familiar with Invicta watches? If so, would you like to win one? I have an idea for a contest, but not quite ready to launch it. If...IF I do, do you guys prefer the traditional list ranking or the knockout format? Having prizes is really cool and all, but personally I don't care. When there is money involved people tend to get more butt hurt than usual if things isn't working out for them. Looks like a watch many would like though. I know nothing about them. You have some sort of business relation? I have a collection of watches, so thought it might make for a fun prize. My wife and I spend a fair amount of time in Grand Cayman and the Caribbean where watches and jewelry are tax and duty free. Because of that I can pick up a $400 Invicta watch for usually around $200, sometimes less. We dive quite a bit, and I LOVE Invictas. Anyways, just thought it might make for a fun prize. I see your point on some being more butthurt when cash/prize is involved, but it's been my experience that those same people will be butthurt regardless. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 9:50:44 GMT -5
For me, I kind of liked the knock out format because it madeit seem like I had more of a chance to advance and match ups kinda get a spotlight. But I could see how it's not really fair to the "big dogs" who run into each other early like what happened to Setmypath. Mrooola I'd like to think that no one really cares about the prize and it's probably not necessary, but having it to keep things interesting is always fun. I guess it's just cause my friends and I put wagers on whatever we do, even its just a round a drinks to keep people interested in whatever competition it is. I agree, but just playing devil's advocate.... if a course got knocked out in the first round it likely was going to finish behind the course it was knocked out by regardless. I do have things I would change and streamline though. For instance, in the finals we would have a overall winner decided by judging rather than popular vote, but would still do a popular vote for the "people's champ" in order to get the community involved and help showcase the courses. Have other ideas as well... |
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Post by coggin66 on Oct 15, 2016 18:41:38 GMT -5
I like the knockout format but my concern is that interest seems to wane over the course of the competition because they can drag out a bit.
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Oct 15, 2016 21:18:50 GMT -5
Are you guys familiar with Invicta watches? If so, would you like to win one? I have an idea for a contest, but not quite ready to launch it. If...IF I do, do you guys prefer the traditional list ranking or the knockout format? I'm on the fence about the format because, I feel like the cream rises to the top one way or another. The final four courses in the CC showdown were, if not the top 4 course in the entire contest, all firmly within the top 5 or 6. Where the discrepancy comes is in the middle places. Was Whitefang, knocked out R-1 by Reeb, worse than 16 other courses? Probably not. Was my Noelle Valley, which lost to Canuck in the the Rustic finals, one of the top eight courses in the entire contest? Debatable. I'm sure if we ranked the course 1-28 in that competition, we'd have some first round departees much higher up on the list and some second or third round survivors taken down a few pegs ... But if you are not in the top 4 or 5, does it really make that much difference if you are 8th or 17th? As a contestant, I really liked the knockout format. With each round and each set of comments, I started second guessing if I would advance. Had me completely on my toes until the winner was announced. The way you all presented it, felt a lot like the show "Chopped" or one of those other elimination-based competition-type shows. I see coggin's point about it dragging out a bit, but think that was due to the nature of the CC contest where each course got a fresh set of judges each round and the judges, obviously, needed time to do their judging duties. If I had to pick, I'd probably lean knockout, but however you roll w/ it will probably be fun and exciting. |
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