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Post by mrooola on Sept 15, 2016 12:00:52 GMT -5
I'm not on the top tours, but I say this is a bad idea.
For me there are a few things needed to compete for a win. Talent, time and dedication. Some can reach the top on talent and some can reach it by pure dedication and practice. They both need time to spend on the game.
If you don't have the time and/or dedication to make it you need more talent than those above you to be able to win. Why does anyone in this game feel entitled to be competitive if you fall short in any of these regards?
I joined TGCT because it mimics real life to some extent. Period. There are other tours out there if that rocks your boat.
Thought the decission to make the general public happy had already been made by removing most of the firm courses? They all need to compete too? Geez.... Tough crowd to please if so Scott.
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Post by Doyley on Sept 15, 2016 12:02:07 GMT -5
Just want to jump in and say this isn't a "me against the world" debate. Really appreciate all the points written here and it will give me and the team lots to discuss in the leadup to TGC2. Now carry on discussing as I think we're doing TGCT a world of good to talk about this! No not a "me against the world" debate its a "stop me winning" debate That would be an easy TGCT rule. Forced retirement  Good luck winning that vote haha! |
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 15, 2016 12:02:33 GMT -5
No not a "me against the world" debate its a "stop me winning" debate I don't actually think it's about winning...more the ability to compete. Heck Ian...I can't beat you and I'm not all that bad at the game. Now consider the 110th ranked player. Yes they get to play on the tour. No they don't have a chance. And for anyone to say just get better...that's missing the point of a VIDEO GAME. If you take that approach you risk (read: may) losing users because they simply can't compete and don't enjoy finishing 110th every week. If the top 75 were in an elite tour the enjoyment doesn't change much at all, except for those who like the events you aren't in because they feel like they might win...and many of those folks have already chimed in and said they don't care.
My point is this: For me it doesn't matter one bit. But Doyley needs to consider everyone, not just me, you or the top 75. I'm playing regardless. Oh, and for those who think TGC2 will bring everyone closer to Ian...don't bet on it. He's figured this one out better than the rest, what makes you think that'll change?
lol, it was sarcasm bruh must not have that on the pga
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 15, 2016 12:03:29 GMT -5
No not a "me against the world" debate its a "stop me winning" debate That would be an easy TGCT rule. Forced retirement Good luck winning that vote haha!  |
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gtgplaya
Caddy
Looking forward to the new season
Posts: 33
TGCT Name: Ian Tomlinson
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Post by gtgplaya on Sept 15, 2016 12:06:31 GMT -5
I believe someone hit on this earlier in this thread but are we jumping the gun with this "Elite Tour" idea? TGC2 is supposed to have a completely different swing feel correct? More like a tempo based swing similar to what they have over at Perfect golf? So who's to say the same guys will be the "Elite" over on the new game? I get what the TGCT is trying to do but I think we should at least let TGC2 getting going before making any major changes.
I think this is also why local golf leagues use handicap systems to make sure 1 guy is dominant all the time? Has a handicap system ever been though about? Back in the EA Tiger Woods days 1 of the biggest tours around was a handicap tour. I know you always have the "sandbagging" complaint but the guy had a great formula he used and you seen different winners all the time.
Ian
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Post by Doyley on Sept 15, 2016 12:09:08 GMT -5
They all need to win too? No, it's not about winning - it's about being competitive. I feel there aren't enough high level/elite golfers to fill 2 tours. and the fact that we have high level/elite golfers on two tours means the drop off in skill is drastic once you get outside the first 30 or so on each tour (compared to the top 10). I think that combining those elite/good players onto one tour and combining the rest onto another tour is beneficial to the overall health of TGCT. If not in an Elite Tour, then maybe in a 1 2 model where the PGA is the end goal and the Euro tour is a stepping stone from Web to PGA. We are very PC at the moment calling the Euro and PGA 1a and 1b but if push came to shove and we had to pick a #1 tour - it would likely be the PGA based on the # of players in the WGR (real life) that play PGA and the overall higher purse available (real life). No offense Europe! Staying the same is always an option - if the guys I'm trying to help out speak out and say they don't need it or want it - then by all means we'll just carry on as is  |
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Post by jtcurrent on Sept 15, 2016 12:11:30 GMT -5
I don't actually think it's about winning...more the ability to compete. Heck Ian...I can't beat you and I'm not all that bad at the game. Now consider the 110th ranked player. Yes they get to play on the tour. No they don't have a chance. And for anyone to say just get better...that's missing the point of a VIDEO GAME. If you take that approach you risk (read: may) losing users because they simply can't compete and don't enjoy finishing 110th every week. If the top 75 were in an elite tour the enjoyment doesn't change much at all, except for those who like the events you aren't in because they feel like they might win...and many of those folks have already chimed in and said they don't care.
My point is this: For me it doesn't matter one bit. But Doyley needs to consider everyone, not just me, you or the top 75. I'm playing regardless. Oh, and for those who think TGC2 will bring everyone closer to Ian...don't bet on it. He's figured this one out better than the rest, what makes you think that'll change?
lol, it was sarcasm bruh must not have that on the pga
I knew that, was just making that point. Bruh. |
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Sept 15, 2016 12:14:20 GMT -5
If it were up to Doyley he would call it the PG"eh".
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 15, 2016 12:14:29 GMT -5
At first, I was vehemently against this idea. After thinking about it some more, I still think it's a step in the wrong direction, but it doesn't seem quite so bad as it first did.
Some weeks, I want to play the absolute cream of the crop -- usually majors, WGCs, etc., but there are other weeks where it's nice to have a (slightly) lower strength of field and really have a golden chance at a win. For example, I played the Wyndham specifically because I was looking for a break from playing against Ian and the Irishmen, and I managed to win the event. One thing I noticed, though, is that the satisfaction just wasn't the same. Sure, it was great to beat the field that week, but it felt slightly hollow knowing that (excluding myself) only 3 of the top 8 in the WGR were competing against me. Based on stats and WGR, I was *supposed* to win that event (well, not at the start of the tourney, but Bradley had an off week, so it deferred to me, I guess). Really, the last barrier I feel I have to crack in this game is winning an event with an "elite" field. I want to play an event with Sweeney, Garcia, Murphy, Cairns, May, Powell, etc. and win it. That's my "white whale" now, at least for this game and this tour. Moving over to an elite tour would probably double or triple the number of chances I'd have for that, but I feel that it may lead to burnout and frustration at a certain point and may also cheapen the special events throughout the year. I probably didn't help much here, but there's my perspective, if nothing else.
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Post by shoey101 on Sept 15, 2016 12:14:50 GMT -5
I am ranked 45th so that would put me in the elite tour. Even on my best week I am 5-10 shots behind the leader but I can occasionally can squeeze in a top 10-15. Making an elite tour I would be fighting for top 30s and 40s on a good week. I think the way we have it now works the best. The talent gap from the top down to the 30s and 40s wgr is very large so I think a lot of guys around my wgr would dropout before the 1st season of elite tour would finish.
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Post by t2theb2 on Sept 15, 2016 12:15:39 GMT -5
Lol this is a poor mentality from some players. I ain't giving in just because Ian wins most comps, It makes me try even harder. There is 2 things you can do in this situation and the 1st is don't give in because playing against the best makes you better. If your not that type of player why don't you go back down to the Web and give other people a chance that would love to have a go. There shouldn't be even a discussion into making players make a tour that does not exist when you could go back down to the Web. I get the feel that you see playing on the Web as not good enough as u would feel you have gone backwards. In all fairness it does not matter where you play as your only going to play at the same level.
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Post by NCFCRulz on Sept 15, 2016 12:15:44 GMT -5
TLDR but the OP made me post.
This has been me consistantly the entire last season. Constantly between 50-100 WGR and finishing anywhere between 10th-50th most weeks.
However will I win a tourny, no, not a chance. You are Spon on when you say that whilst I can compete on the tour, will I ever win a tournament, no, and it's not because I'm not.that good it's because the game is far easier than really life at being consistant.
Look at Speith, will Bradley etc ever have a run of a few tournies where they cant make top 10, never, because it's too easy to maintain consistency.
I have become disillusioned due to this I think and whilst it's nobodies fault I find it harder week after week to complete rounds when I already know roughly where I'm going to finish before a ball is hit!
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 15, 2016 12:17:51 GMT -5
I think the tiers are too large currently. I look at the leaderboards and see, generally with some variance, the same names near the top, the same names safely above the cut line, the same names at or around the cut line, and the same names well below the cut line.
Still, a win on a secondary tour feels hollow. "Yay, I won an event in which the best players didn't compete, so I'm the best of the not-so-best." I never won any tournaments, so maybe someone who won a CC or Web event and made it all the way to PGA/Euro might feel a little differently about it.
I was in the hunt for a top-2 one week - I finished in a tie for 4th, 2 shots back of 2nd and 13 shots back of Ian - and that was fun and rewarding. I finished T6 in a minor event and that was also fun, but less rewarding. I was T2 after two rounds at Chardon before I blew up in R3 and R4, and that was fun while it lasted.
I finished T4 in a Web event and earned an exemption to the top tours. That was akin to a win for me because the goal was to make the top tours.
I don't know if I want to have to go back to the B-Tour to earn another exemption to compete at the top tours again. I finished T33 in my only major. I'm one of those guys this move is targeting, but I don't think I get any extra enjoyment out of it. I don't really compete against the top players, but it's fun to see how I stack up. Sometimes I get lucky and look like I belong.
I'm not really for this change. If I'm competitive against B-Leaguers and get a trophy for it, fine, but it'll be in the box in my closet. But then, if someone wins an event that half the elite skip, does it count? Do only the majors count with that thinking?
I think I'd rather just try my luck with the elite field and see where I stack up.
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Post by Doyley on Sept 15, 2016 12:19:33 GMT -5
I believe someone hit on this earlier in this thread but are we jumping the gun with this "Elite Tour" idea? TGC2 is supposed to have a completely different swing feel correct? More like a tempo based swing similar to what they have over at Perfect golf? So who's to say the same guys will be the "Elite" over on the new game? I get what the TGCT is trying to do but I think we should at least let TGC2 getting going before making any major changes. I think this is also why local golf leagues use handicap systems to make sure 1 guy is dominant all the time? Has a handicap system ever been though about? Back in the EA Tiger Woods days 1 of the biggest tours around was a handicap tour. I know you always have the "sandbagging" complaint but the guy had a great formula he used and you seen different winners all the time. Ian Even if it's not the same guys the theory/issue stands - splitting Elite players across two tours in TGC1 or TGC2 - where the gap in skill drops significantly outside the top 30 - is not a healthy recipe in my eyes. We just don't have the active user base to fill two tours with like-skilled players - the gap between the Top 5 and the bottom 5 is just too large on both the PGA and the Euro tours. When I look at the tours I don't really look at names - I look at blocks of skill and right now I think rearranging the top blocks of the Euro and PGA to play in the same tour benefits the balance of our tours as a whole. Don't think we'll go to handicap system - a tweak here/there if needed should be enough to restore balance. |
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Post by mrooola on Sept 15, 2016 12:24:11 GMT -5
They all need to win too? No, it's not about winning - it's about being competitive. I feel there aren't enough high level/elite golfers to fill 2 tours. and the fact that we have high level/elite golfers on two tours means the drop off in skill is drastic once you get outside the first 30 or so on each tour (compared to the top 10). I think that combining those elite/good players onto one tour and combining the rest onto another tour is beneficial to the overall health of TGCT. If not in an Elite Tour, then maybe in a 1 2 model where the PGA is the end goal and the Euro tour is a stepping stone from Web to PGA. We are very PC at the moment calling the Euro and PGA 1a and 1b but if push came to shove and we had to pick a #1 tour - it would likely be the PGA based on the # of players in the WGR (real life) that play PGA and the overall higher purse available (real life). No offense Europe! Staying the same is always an option - if the guys I'm trying to help out speak out and say they don't need it or want it - then by all means we'll just carry on as is You were faster quoting me than I was editing Changed it to most firm courses and compete instead of win. Much like that debate I understand the why and I would be playing either way, I just don't think this idea is a good one as the real golf tour layout is tgct's strongest card. If you were to leave that path you would be vulnerable against other fictional tours or perhaps even a hb official tour setup once tgc2 gets here. As we (I) don't know how tgc2 will pan out, I think it would be dangerous long term not to stay on the real life mimic road. That's just how I see it at least. |
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Good luck winning that vote haha!
