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Post by hmammoth on Aug 4, 2015 15:57:44 GMT -5
Picking courses for the challenge circuit is a tough job considering the the various skill levels between the division. Getting people involved like this is a great idea and I really hope people will make suggestions. Even if course that people mention don't make the list, it can give the people that pick the courses a rough idea what type courses that members like to play. I am going to name three courses here that I really enjoyed and that vary in difficulty. Hopefully people if they have a chance might give them a go, help give a little feed back that might help theclv24. I will also play any other courses that other suggest. I play in the cc a, so my idea of difficulty will differ from other players and that's why I think people from all divisions of the cc will really help.
Easy: Dunholme Manor Golf & CC, A Short course with many birdie chances, care does have to be taken on some tee shots but that's easily done by not using driver. Some holes will be affected by the wind more than others with water coming into play. The difficulty goes up a small bit in the closing holes so a chance to be caught out even if playing well.
Medium: Killarney Golf and Country club. A wide open course where fairways easily reached in all winds. Accuracy is needed on the green as there is a lot of red lines, but designed in a way that with careful shots, these red lines can be used to a players advantage, bringing the ball close to the hole. On the other hand, a badly placed approach will leave a struggle to make par.
Hard: Briarbanks Country Club. A Course where accuracy is key from start to finish, the greens can be really fast which can make putting difficult. A course where all type of shots are needed to play.
Like all courses, the winds will affect a score, more so on the harder courses. I don't know if these courses are on the approved list. I just wanted to get started with some suggestions. Remember these are personal opinions so what I find hard, others might find easy and vice versa. If you do play these courses, have fun.
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jeff
Caddy
Posts: 66
TGCT Name: Jeff Dillman
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Post by jeff on Aug 4, 2015 21:14:12 GMT -5
Agree totally. Loa Pali is my favourite course so far. The fact that it is still fun play in high winds is a testament to how good it is. I think most designers don't design with winds in mind unfortuately. I'm on a web exemption this week and currently sweating on a card. I really don't want to drop down to play on Ha'aou Minaku. Far too narrow. That is the problem with the next one- if the winds are up that thing is going to suck. Fairways are too narrow too often (a couple would be fine), gobs of sand, and the greens are tough if you don't get right on the pin with the approach. I've played a few rounds on it and the winds were low, no more than 7 mph, and it was a fun course. Put the winds to 15 and it won't be. As for contributing to this thread, I think the course itself is okay, but if it is going to get the high winds as a tropical course for the tournament, it is too much for CC-E.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:22:18 GMT -5
Whats peoples thoughts on a loose rule of no green speeds above Medium speed for CC, Medium-Fast for Web, Fast for PGA/Euro? I believe that could work. Faster greens punish your bad putts more. The greens at Thousand Islands were very very fair but frustrated the CC crowd. I believe if they were slower then more people would have enjoyed the tournament.
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Post by theclv24 on Aug 5, 2015 10:26:22 GMT -5
Easy: Dunholme Manor Golf & CC, A Short course with many birdie chances, care does have to be taken on some tee shots but that's easily done by not using driver. Some holes will be affected by the wind more than others with water coming into play. The difficulty goes up a small bit in the closing holes so a chance to be caught out even if playing well.
Medium: Killarney Golf and Country club. A wide open course where fairways easily reached in all winds. Accuracy is needed on the green as there is a lot of red lines, but designed in a way that with careful shots, these red lines can be used to a players advantage, bringing the ball close to the hole. On the other hand, a badly placed approach will leave a struggle to make par.
Hard: Briarbanks Country Club. A Course where accuracy is key from start to finish, the greens can be really fast which can make putting difficult. A course where all type of shots are needed to play.
Like all courses, the winds will affect a score, more so on the harder courses. I don't know if these courses are on the approved list. I just wanted to get started with some suggestions. Remember these are personal opinions so what I find hard, others might find easy and vice versa. If you do play these courses, have fun. Thanks so much for these! This is really what I am looking for, above all else. Everyone can chime in on their opinions about what types of courses CC should be playing, but I need a real pool of courses that I can consider and use to gauge the tour's overall opinion of what constitutes Easy, Medium, and Hard. Also as a note, Briarbanks was originally on the schedule to be played, but it did not pass lag testing so I had to remove it. Perhaps with additional updates in the future from HB it can be placed back in the rotation for next season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:27:16 GMT -5
Whats peoples thoughts on a loose rule of no green speeds above Medium speed for CC, Medium-Fast for Web, Fast for PGA/Euro? I believe that could work. Faster greens punish your bad putts more. The greens at Thousand Islands were very very fair but frustrated the CC crowd. I believe if they were slower then more people would have enjoyed the tournament. well interesting proposal but then we'd have decent cc-a players rage quitting this tour as I would win with over 15 strokes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:29:00 GMT -5
Haha then you should be on the web tour pal. CC-A players should really see the CC courses as birdie fests.
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Post by theclv24 on Aug 5, 2015 10:29:34 GMT -5
As another note, I am starting to look at choosing some courses several weeks down the line that I currently think are in the Medium range, but could be Hard in strong winds. I will be requesting in these events that the designer submit at least one version of the course that plays several shots easier than the normal course.
The point of this is two-fold: players at the lower levels will not have to suffer through 4 rounds that feel like beatdowns, while players at the higher levels will be challenged to execute down the stretch of a tournament if they want to contend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:32:03 GMT -5
An example...
Centennial Oak East/West/North (CC) - medium speed Centennial Oak Championship (Web) - med-fast Centennial Oak Tour (PGA/Euro) - fast
The courses, mainly due to speed of greens, get a couple of shots harder each time.
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Post by bogeyman on Aug 5, 2015 10:32:23 GMT -5
I'm up for anything that evens things out a bit - although, I just played 2nd round 1000 Islands in 14-15 mph winds and it was tough to get close to the pin for birdie. I must admit though I dropped shots on a few short putts that I thought were going in but missed and I had longer putts coming back. So easier greens would have helped a little.
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Post by hmammoth on Aug 5, 2015 10:41:33 GMT -5
I know I have suggested three courses already and you would not want me to be giving you long lists that take up your time but there was a course added to the completed course forum today called Mistwood Golf Course which I thought was a great course. It is a easy course and good players will shoot sub 60 but it will also allow players in the lower divisions to shoot some confidence building rounds. Anyway, I'll try not add to many more suggestions as you have enough work on your hands but I really think this is a course worth taking a look at.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:42:27 GMT -5
Haha then you should be on the web tour pal. CC-A players should really see the CC courses as birdie fests. you are right as always my pal Luke. and it's only a question of when, in my disillusioned mind I should already be there but I've finally come to terms with if I'm supposed to be there I'll be there soon enough and I have seen the cc courses as birdie fests yes why I have been unsuccessful is an another story but that one is already getting old. I will probably just miss out on top 5 this week, but next week will be my chance to shine, I hope I dont let my expectations cloud my potential.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:54:09 GMT -5
You may just edge the top 5 this week Norways #1. I was playing live with Gavlaar and he missed a makeable eagle putt and the resulting birdie putt on the last to finish -20, a shot below you If I recall. You'll get up sooner or later, no doubt.
But yeah, I think we need to start catering the difficulty more to the middle-level circuits. I've had two mates start now in CC-D and they've both struggled and it's off putting for them, I really dread next weeks for them.
CC-A should find all the courses easy until they get onto the web whilst CC-Z will find every course hard anyway. This weeks course would have been great at a lower green speed level, I'll get playing some courses tomorrow and let you know some recommendations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:59:59 GMT -5
on that note if I was in euro last week i would have beat slickhenry
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Post by smytty66 on Aug 5, 2015 11:24:12 GMT -5
Whats peoples thoughts on a loose rule of no green speeds above Medium speed for CC, Medium-Fast for Web, Fast for PGA/Euro? I believe that could work. Faster greens punish your bad putts more. The greens at Thousand Islands were very very fair but frustrated the CC crowd. I believe if they were slower then more people would have enjoyed the tournament. I don't think the issue is speed so much as it's speed combined with slope. Making speed adjustments alone is fairly simple.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 11:43:39 GMT -5
Yeah I understand that, hence the 'loose rule'. The more slope the slower the speed should be. Hobble Creek was Med-fast and due to very easy pins and not too much slope was perfectly acceptable for CC.
Having said that, the greens were still fairly tough in places. It was the par 5s that played like par 4s and the lack of wind update that meant it played very easy with very low scores here in all flights. I think Hobble (and Victory Road for that matter) probably could have dropped its pace to have medium paced greens. Ideally, for the learning curve of the game and differing skill levels, I'd like it to be
CC Medium Speed (Flattish) Med/Slow (Average Slopes) Slow (Undulating)
Web Med/Fast (Flattish) Medium (Average) Med/Slow (Undulating)
PGA/Euro Fast (Flattish) Med/Fast (Average) Medium (Undulating)
Obviously there will be some courses that are extremely undulating that may only be playable on slow but you get my point.
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