2023 Rookie Design Challenge WIP - That Club in Westchester

[GeneCreemers]

Hi all,

Unfortunately I DQ'ed myself from the CC contest. Since my newest course still meets the criteria for Rookie Design Challenge, I've decided to use it there instead. If you want to see some previous photos of that work, you can check them out in this thread.

ErixonStone I'll be using this one for my rookie course.

If anyone wants to try out a beta, let me know. There's work to be done for sure, but it's getting closer to publishing everyday.

[GeneCreemers]

Driveable Par 4 2nd

From the tee

From the layup area if you decide not to go for it

From the collection area left of the green, looking towards the 16th green

[fargo]

I'm away from my playstation for a couple weeks but will be glad to play your beta when I'm back.

That last image of yours - the fairway is quite angular on the left side near the green - a couple more spline points and smooth the corners there will fix that.

[GeneCreemers]

Jan 18, 2023 1:04:50 GMT -5 fargo said:

I'm away from my playstation for a couple weeks but will be glad to play your beta when I'm back.

That last image of yours - the fairway is quite angular on the left side near the green - a couple more spline points and smooth the corners there will fix that.

Thanks Fargo,

That angular section is actually intentional. My course is kind of inspired by southern Westchester County, NY courses in general, and my green complexes are inspired by one course in particular called Apawamis. Check out the run off on the 1st 3rd, 6th, 10th, and 13th holes. Apawamis in general is very angular.

[GeneCreemers]

Jan 18, 2023 1:04:50 GMT -5 fargo said:

I'm away from my playstation for a couple weeks but will be glad to play your beta when I'm back.

That last image of yours - the fairway is quite angular on the left side near the green - a couple more spline points and smooth the corners there will fix that.

PS - I'll get that beta link out here soon. Trying to tidy up a few more things before I put it out to the public.

[GeneCreemers]

I don't know about you all, but I find that constructing a kick ass clubhouse is a real blast.

[GeneCreemers]

Beta posted if anyone wants to give it a run.

I have a lot of work left to do, but it's in pretty good shape to play. With the exception of 14, 15, and I think 17, all greens should be getting close to done. Still tweaking all of them though. For 14/15/17 I just left a flat spot around the pin so everyone can play through the course.

As far as feedback, say what you have to say about anything. But I'm definitely looking for feedback on the sight lines. That was one thing I wanted to improve upon from my last course.

Anyway, the beta is titled TGCWbeta... Have at it

[GeneCreemers]

sandgroper was kind enough to do a review of my beta in case anyone wants to check it out. It's always more fun to watch a course you've created, being played by this Aussie Bloke.

[GeneCreemers]

I don't plan on adding multiple sets of playable tee boxes for this course with the exception of maybe the par 3s. But what are people's thoughts about showing multiple tee boxes visually so that the course looks more "real"?

For instance, yes or no to tee boxes in the images below? I think the course looks more authentic if they are there, even if they aren't being used.

With Tee boxes

Without Tee boxes

[sandgroper]

Even if you don’t use them they fill up the area to give it a more realistic feel, is my opinion.

[GeneCreemers]

Jan 26, 2023 4:17:25 GMT -5 sandgroper said:

Even if you don’t use them they fill up the area to give it a more realistic feel, is my opinion.

Thanks man! I'm leaning towards this and kind of feel the same way.

[fargo]

Had a round of your beta. I haven't watched sandgroper's playthrough. Playing pins 2.

Nice course.

You asked specifically about sightlines - all good except if noted below. One general observation is that many bunkers could be enlarged a little - some are pretty narrow.

I notice your green speeds are 157. This is super close to the "fast" speed of 155, so it doesn't really allow schedulers the opportunity to set different speeds for different rounds. I don't know if this could be pushed to very fast. Maybe think about setting the greens to say 165 or 145ish, to open up options.

Hole by hole observations below

I understand that you're going for angular / geometric / straight lines on the fairway shapes, it works well lots of the time but there are places that look a little strange to me - where the base fairway shape would suit a curve but you've got a series of slightly angled corners 15 or so yards apart. For example the right of the 1st hole up towards the green (screenshot below looking back towards the tee). It just looks a little "halfway", maybe either commit to the geometric look a little more, or round those corners to get more flowing lines on those curved sections?

Hole 2 - I wonder if a little pond to the left of the green where that planting is would add more of a strategic element to this hole? As it is now there's no reason to not go for the green every time. 

Hole 3 - I definately think forward tee boxes (whether used or not) add to the realism of a course. There's a lot of holes where this applies so won't mention it each time. The geometric fairway shaping is much better executed on this hole. I hit a nice drive to the right side of the fairway and the greenside bunker is not visible. It also looks a little flat up by the green, maybe some more sculpting could improve how the greensite looks.

4. I do like this hole, however the retaining walls aren't great. Retaining walls suck and I rarely use them. Do you need a retaining wall here, if it was removed you could plant out the waters edge a little and it might give you a better result. Alternatively adding a second or third layer to the retaining walls can help thicken them up which can make sculpting easier. I also don't like the fountain, it's a shame there are no good fountains in the designer. The green sculpting behind the bunker mounds front and left could be improved - naturally the ground would drop off from those bunker mounds smoothly through the green surface, but you've got a bit of a trough where the green runs downhill to the fringe between the bunkers and the green.

I like holes 5 6 and 7

8 again those retaining walls. I'm hitting to the wrong fairway to the right - even if I miss I'm in the rough but I've got an easy shot right down the green. Assuming that exploit is removed by adding a big tree in the way - there's not a great deal of strategy here off the tee. Just brainstorming here but I wonder if you could remove some of the water on the left and add fairway wrapping around the pond, so you can hit longer on that side but you're left with a narrower green? Just an idea. See pic 

9 nice hole

10 nice hole. I reckon the bunker on the left could be fattened a bit - drop the land down closer to the green - there might be too much flat land of heavy rough between green and bunker.

11 this hole will definately look better with some tee boxes filling the foreground.

I actually don't like this hole - the green is very big, the access points to the green are tiny and very very steep, bunkers are a little narrow. I don't think this one is up to the standard of the previous holes.

12 good hole. I would smooth the fairway spline points where it goes around that bunker on the left. Would a fairway runoff at the back of the green work here?

13 Really good. If the majority of the holes were narrow like this then it would be a problem, but this hole is placed well in the round and it is well executed. 

14 good hole. Drive feels fairly similar to the previous hole though.

15 good hole

16 this is a nice par 3. The rough around that lions mouth bunker needs to be much higher. Imagine how a groundskeeper is going to mow that fairway length grass on that extremely steep slope falling down to the sand. Should be rough to right up to where the ground starts falling.

17 good hole

18 nice hole

[GeneCreemers]

Thanks fargo, I’ll respond a little more in depth later. Working on my real game at the range right now.

[sroel908]

Jan 25, 2023 13:50:18 GMT -5 GeneCreemers said:

I don't plan on adding multiple sets of playable tee boxes for this course with the exception of maybe the par 3s. But what are people's thoughts about showing multiple tee boxes visually so that the course looks more "real"?

For instance, yes or no to tee boxes in the images below? I think the course looks more authentic if they are there, even if they aren't being used.

With Tee boxes

Without Tee boxes

Personally, I'd go "with".

Other tee boxes can help with sightlines and focusing the player's eye down the length of the hole. Otherwise, it just looks bare to me and lacking something. 

[GeneCreemers]

Jan 29, 2023 13:11:27 GMT -5 sroel908 said:

Jan 25, 2023 13:50:18 GMT -5 GeneCreemers said:

I don't plan on adding multiple sets of playable tee boxes for this course with the exception of maybe the par 3s. But what are people's thoughts about showing multiple tee boxes visually so that the course looks more "real"?

For instance, yes or no to tee boxes in the images below? I think the course looks more authentic if they are there, even if they aren't being used.

With Tee boxes

Without Tee boxes

Personally, I'd go "with".

Other tee boxes can help with sightlines and focusing the player's eye down the length of the hole. Otherwise, it just looks bare to me and lacking something. 

agreed, I've added them on all holes. I'll probably publish another beta version of this before publishing the final version