Seven Bridges - Released! 7.18.23

[bhazen]

Welcome!

I've debated putting this out on this board for several reasons, first and foremost is because this is my first ever design on any platform and I wasn't sure if I wanted the added pressure of making sure this project gets over the finish line.  But having spent 100's of hours of digesting information, tips and tricks off this board and youtube (specifically Crazycanuck) I decided I'd post this just as a Thank You for everyone's effort in taking the time out of their daily lives to post how they go about designing great courses in this game.  Another reason why I wasn't going to record this 'design process' was because I'm not doing this for anyone else but myself - I enjoy the process (more than I do playing the game), BUT a part of me wants to excel at this, and because of that, I need to open myself up to feedback both good and bad.  Currently the only critique I get is from my 16 year old son - not very helpful.

Just a few things to note before I get any further along:

Platform: Xbox console <- yeah I know
Software: 2k21 version
Design Hours for this project so far: 135hrs (500hrs projected to complete - Current Estimated Completion Date March 2023).
My tech level: 5/10. 

I'm listing my 'tech level' upfront is because you'll now understand I'm a complete computer idiot, I still need to figure out how to get pictures from my console to this thread (yes I've seen the post regarding this), along with a few other things. Please bare with me on any tech learning curve, I will try to keep this journey interesting.

My goal is to update this thread every 4-5 days.  Hopefully it will garner some interest in my designs and this track.

In my design(s) I want to attempt to be as realistic as possible to a real world course taking into account a few 'general' rules:
1. Real world courses don't have everyone hitting 300yds off the tee.
2. Real world courses have people shanking approach shots.  In game you really don't see a 50yrd 'worm burner' on a 150yrd approach. I need to plan for this.
3. Putting in game is easier than irl. I need to take this into account in designing my green complexes to be fun and achievable.
4. Restrictions with file size - I'm finding out very quickly this is important when it comes to planting large areas.
5. I'm not designing for pars versus under par.  Scores are secondary to me.  That being said, I will try to make scores match there assigned par on average but I won't compromise a design with crazy/outlandish design 'gimmicks' just to make par 'stick'
5. Not every hole has to be a 'signature' design hole.  Make the design interesting but fair and playable so people come back for more.  A well designed hole doesn't need five million gimmicks to make it a good hole.
6. I'm not going to punish a player for hitting a fairway or green.  NO extreme slopes with crazy runoffs.  Backstops and cambers will exist but will have realistic slopes and be playable for the average golfer.
7. There will be a good mix of risk-reward, length, and accuracy holes (with options for different shots and clubs) in my tracks.  I will not create a track that only uses a single feature. Or forces you to use a specific club (i.e. less than driver on a par 5).

I'm going to design around these 'rules or facts' in order to make the course enjoyable to play in game.  This really doesn't sound like a huge issue, but when constructing a playable track it does make a difference on how I'll design a hole.  I'm not always going to knock a hole out of the park per se, but I do want to to make the course enjoyable, playable and thought provoking enough to bring people back to my courses.

Seven Bridges basic specs:
Par 72 - Parkland tract (4 par 3's, 4 par 5's, 10 par 4's)
Average fairway width: 30-35 yards 
Average Green size: 90-110 yards circumference
Overall tract length: 7100-7500 yards (I wish the program would include an index and slope rating)
Hilly with water, 100+ bunkers, full cart path, waterfall(s), minimal rock work and of course: Seven Bridges.

Back in October of this year, shortly after purchasing the game (strictly for the designer), I begun the thought process for this track, I wanted a plot that was basically open, hilly with water.  The reason was I wanted to really focus on sculpting and sightlines with this first design rather than planting and tree framing.  I envisioned an mostly open course where you could see the other holes through windows.  I wanted a "Hey what's over there?" vibe when you were playing an approach or tee shot. With these basic goals in mind, I set off with the course layout.

The layout was designed mostly with a triangle approach making sure wind direction and lighting came in from different angles on different holes.  I believe the front nine doesn't have a single repeatable angle on back-to-back holes.  The track itself is functional, with 1 and 10 near the Clubhouse and 9 and 18 ending back at the Clubhouse.  I varied hole length using short, medium and long holes within the pars so a par 3 would have different distances within the par 3 subset, the 4's and 5's also followed suit.  It worked out that the overall length was longer than what I had planned and what you would find in reality, but it seems to work and play well as a whole, so I decided not to shorten up the course just to make the overall distance more realistic.

I spent a ton of time with sightlines off tee boxes (four tee locations), and still didn't get them 100%.  I'm tempted to go back and ripout a few tee boxes at this point (and still might), but a comment from one of Canuck's video's keeps coming back to me telling me to learn from it and fix it on the next design.  When I start publishing pictures of the tee boxes, I'll point them out and you'll see what I mean.

The next item were the green complexes and slopes.  I wanted to a minimum of four tee locations on each green that weren't necessarily 'tiers', not to say 'tiers' are bad and I did use some in some of the complexes, but realistically using them for 18 holes seems like a design copout.  Getting the group tee locations correct was also important, I didn't want a tee location of lets say "3" to represent front right for all 18 holes.  Getting a mix of locations, tucked pin locations, attackable pins, etc. took quite a bit of time. But I'm happy with the result.

After the greens came the +100 sand traps.  Boy! Getting the sculpting and look on this was tough! I used predefined shapes combining them rather than splining because I wanted a consistent realistic size and look, and this was my first attempt.  Hopefully I pulled this off and help tie the course together doing it this way.  Nothing fancy here, no railroad ties, high grasses, traps in the middle of fairways, etc.  Just kept is boring and simple.  I did locate some traps for visual purposes only to frame things in and I'm really not expecting them to come into actual play but overall I'm happy with the way they came out.  I'm sure I messed this up on a few, but overall I think they are pretty much locked in.

Fairways and rough layers came next, I wanted real rollouts and slopes here.  I didn't want to punish a player for a small mishit that made the ball roll out into rough.  And in this design, the rough collar is pretty small before hitting deep rough.  I wanted to punish the golfer when they landed in the deep rough, not when they rolled into it.

Finally, I tried my hand at a couple of waterfalls and rock faces.  As I grow as a designer, I can see where I can improve here.  Going back to my main points, I tried to keep this more minimalistic and made the rock faces follow a ridge within the course track rather than just 'creating' the feature.  After making them, I read (or heard) somewhere that waterfalls are the no-go for new designers and I hope my attempt won't put people off enjoying the course.  But I figured this was an opportunity for me to work with moving water in the designer.  Again, I'll only get better if I'm not afraid to try something.  I kept the features small so they aren't overpowering the course as a whole and weren't the 'main' feature of the course.  I feel like they blend in rather well.

This bring us to the current date - I'm currently planting.  Trees and bushes are done through Hole 4 and grasses though Hole 2 are complete.  Getting the right mix of plants, grasses and trees for the look I want is difficult for me.  I've been through three iterations so far and I'm not 100% sure if this mix is going to be the final product. The overall look isn't quite the realistic look I'm reaching for - I've seen screen captures of current WIP courses like Limberlock Island, and Bluebonnet Country for example that create a more realistic representation than what I currently have.  Maybe this will come as I get better understanding and more practice, but that realism and 'art' I've always struggled with.  If you want me to draw a cartoon, no issues.  But creating a believable sunset landscape picture, I'll tend to struggle and this medium is no exception.  This is where I'm most worried about getting feedback because I know its a huge weakness of mine.  But practice and feedback will make me better in the longrun.

If you've made it this far, Thank You for your time and interest.  I'll hopefully update the thread in a few days with WIP pictures and will ask for specific feedback - the one thing I'll try to do is make changes according to your feedback.  If I decide I can use or even do your suggestion, the next time I'll update this thread, I'll show the change before moving on.

Current Help Request Feedback:
1. Multi select planting grasses - is there a way to do it without taking up so much space meter?  I would like to know if there is a way to plant more efficiently.  If I do use multi planting, does a certain size use more or less meter?  I'd prefer NOT to place each blade of grass by itself on my console.

Thanks!


  








  

[bhazen]

Today is just a test for picture upload, one of the Seven Bridges.

[GeneCreemers]

Curious to see how it all plays out.

I'm kind of cracking up at your course name though... No joke, I was going to name my Gorge course, Seven Bridges. But before I knew it, I added some extra water features and had 12 bridges, and "12 Bridges" doesn't sound as pretty as "Seven Bridges"

With the object meter, the only thing I noticed that takes a little less of the percentage with multi-planting, is to break the clusters after dropping them. That being said, over an entire course of multi-planting grass and bushes, once I broke every single cluster (Hundreds of them), it only saved me around 2% on the meter. So if you're squeezed for meter space at the end, this is an option to get a few more objects in there. But I wouldn't go crazy breaking them up unless you 100% had to.

[bhazen]

Just wanted to drop in a quick update today, yeah its early but I'm making pretty good progress and wanted to share a couple of more pictures today.  Been working on fine tuning sightlines on Hole1 along with some fine/finishing touches on sculpting here.  

Hole1 is a elevated(~63'), long par 4 (544yds), was originally slated to be a par 5 but honestly it really plays better as a par 4.  
I don't have a previous picture, but I cleaned out the sightline from the back tees, and opened the fairway bunkers a little for more visibility off the tee.  




I tried to make the teebox visually appealing and I blocked out most of the lake on purpose since I really wanted the lake impact for the approach shot.



The green complex is pretty simple, three bunkers and a fairly flat green.  Water to the right is really out of play and more there just for the visual.






That's basically it for today, I have Hole 2 and 3 finished, and will share them shortly.  I think my next update will show some of the rock work examples.

[bhazen]

As a new designer, I wanted to try my hand at some rock work features in this track.  So I picked a ridgeline that went through the course and tried to blend in some rock without being overbearing, hopefully I've accomplished the affect I was going for.

The first example is on the par4 7th.  Here I'm showing the approach in to the green.  This is before I clean up anything and do my complete final over the hole.  I still need to smooth, and plant the hole but I do like how this came out.  To me its looking natural without the in-your-face look.  I need to blend in the cart path better and add some grasses around the edges to soften up the look but I believe this will stay as part of the track.




This is also my first attempt at a waterfall, again, I didn't want anything that just jumped out at you, I wanted something that looks like it belongs in its surroundings and was there prior to the course.  This is just off the green complex on the par4 13th, I need to finish smoothing and shaping and also plant, but the bones of the structure look good to me.  The feature can be seen from the fairway and tee box but it doesn't overwhelm the hole.  I added a couple of willow trees to try to complete a more 'wet' look here not 100% sure if they are going to stay. 



Here's the approach shot to the par4 15th.  I had a pretty steep transition from the waterline to the green and I didn't want to drop the green to water level (I tried that and didn't like the look).  So instead I decided to add some more rock here.  I'd like to believe that it frames the green well and helps give the impression that the green was built up from the edge of the water.  Again I still need to go back in and smooth, sculpt and plant this hole.  The bunkers haven't been shaped nor am I happy with their positioning yet.  Cart path here is horrible - that will get all cleaned up but the rocks themselves will be staying.  This look is so much better then the abrupt transition from heavy rough to the water's edge.  The big tree to the right/beyond the rocks on the water's edge will be removed bringing in more light and I'll most likely add a boat out on the water if I have enough meter. 



The last example I'm sharing today is the green complex around the par 4 16th.  If you look closely at the first picture shared of the 7th hole, you can see this structure off in the distance.  The 16th requires the player to fly to the green on their approach shot, one of the few holes on the course that requires that kind shot.  Most of the holes on the track have some sort of a run-up or bailout area.  This complex doesn't give the player that opportunity to do that so they must be accurate in order to score well.  Its a horrible picture, but again I'm trying to blend in the rock formation into the hillside without making it the main focal impact of the hole.  Hopefully by the time I finish this hole I've accomplished my intent here.   



That's it for today,  if you seen anything I'm doing so far that could be improved - specifically the rock work on the examples I've shared today, any feedback would be appreciated. If the idea is good and fits into the overall course (and my ability) I'll try to incorporate it and share it on my next update.  

Most likely won't get much done over the weekend but I should give a update on hole 2 early next week.  I'm still really worried about the meter, and have already ditched the housing track I had started to incorporate on the back nine. I have also dialed back my plans for the clubhouse, pitching and putting areas.  They weren't top priority as part of my first design, so I have scrapped them. 

Thanks for reading - 

[bhazen]

Today's breakdown is to take a close look at the par3 2nd hole at Seven Bridges.

This short par3 is the first hole of several on the course that plays over water.  At 164 yards from the tips, and relatively flat, the tee shot gives the player a great idea of what's to come over the remainder of the course.  With the calm waters in front of you, the green complex includes three bunkers that nestle a fairly flat green in their arms. 

The tee boxes are surrounded by ash bushes and long rye grass that invites the player to really focus in on the pin.  If you are too focused, you'll miss the snack house and the first viewing of one of the seven bridges that are scattered throughout the plot.  The bridges themselves are comprised of stones from a quarry located in Southern California, the very same quarry that was used to help build the famous San Juan Capistrano Mission that was founded in November 1776 by Spanish Catholic missionaries.  The quarry is now defunct with this stone this being some the very last delivered.  The location is now the site of Arroyo Trabuco Golf Club one of the many courses highlighted by the youtube channel GoodGood golf.




Looking back at the tee box you can see the view of the 1st hole beyond.


Once across the bridge, you really get a good look of the green complex, again the long rye grass and ash bushes planted here extend into the water from the shallow shoreline.  The green is guarded by a shallow front bunker and two deeper matching bunkers in the rear. The backstop on the back of the green will keep balls from rolling off the green and can be used by the more experienced players to tuck their tee shot close to the rear pin placements.  Overall the green itself rewards a well placed tee shot, but doesn't punish a player if they do reach the green.  Trouble here will be playing the wind, and missing the water and sand traps.  Walking away with a par here will make a player feel good, a birdie will bring a smile to your face.






After the opening hole, I really wanted the player to feel like they were invited into a more intimate setting, I wanted the planting to be subtle but realistic so much so that the average player really wouldn't even notice that something looked out of place. Blending in some flowering grass helped break the uniform look of the planted grass which I really needed in order to make the visual more realistic.  Building on the console though was/is tough since you lose this type of detail once you get further away.




View from the cart path looking past the green complex back to the tee box.  (You'll notice a quick peek of another bridge in the distance.) 


I'm fairly happy with this hole, its basically a generic - carry water, short length, three bunkers and land close to a pin for a 2. What I'm not really liking is the front bunker, since I'm so close to the water table, I really couldn't get the depth to the bunker that I wanted to shape it correctly. (lesson learned for future designs)  If I go another inch lower the bunker becomes a small pond.  If I bring the back end of the bunker higher, the sightlines from the tee box will block the green and without changing the green height would create a horrible slope on the green just behind the trap in essence making the green unplayable.  I really wanted the low water to land transition on the hole for this look and that trumped raising the hole complex so you get this setup.  I tried to makeup for that by really concentrating on planting and trying to make the hole 'feel' natural.  Also giving the player the first look at one of the bridges and then the snack house beyond helps pull the eyes of the player away from the lack of depth of the front bunker.  Finally for the sharp-eyed player, they will also get the first look at the rock structure from the 7th hole beyond the green.  As I've mentioned before, I wanted the player to get glimpses of the course through 'windows' throughout the track. I believe this hole accomplishes my intent, with the look back at the 1st hole off the tee box and now this peek beyond the hole.  There are a few more visual 'treats' for the player once they get around the green, another 1-2 bridges can be seen, and maybe another green complex depending on your angle to the hole.

In the next few days I'll do a review of hole 3, I'm currently finishing up the details on hole 4, and jumping around the track working on what suits my fancy.  I'm 90% sure I'll have the front nine completely finished by the end of the year so I may be on track to finish the course and get a beta test out by the end of January.  Once I get some feedback on the beta (if any), that will determine if the official release is still on track for the March completion date.

Can anyone out there verify that 2k21 Courses get TGC approval still?  Or can only TGC approved courses be designed in 2k23? Not that that's my goal at this point, but I do need to figure out how to submit the course for approval if it qualifies.  I know I don't qualify for the Rookie Course Design so I'm not going to submit for that.

Until the next update - 
 

[bhazen]

Today we will be going over a Hole3 review, this is a 561yard par5 dogleg left.  The first of four par5's on the course, It requires a driver off the tee with the elbow of the dogleg allowing for a 300+ yard drive.  The approach is a partially blind uphill shot to a well guarded green. If a player's drive is on the right of the fairway they will get better view to attack this hole in two, otherwise this is a three shot hole with a fairly generous layup position.  Anything to the left will either catch the steep hillside or go into the water.  A skilled player who is blocked out on their approach shot will have the ability to draw their second shot and might still reach the green in two if they want to take that risk.



The view from the tee boxes, shows a generous fairway after a short water carry that doesn't come into play off the tee.  The two sand traps to the right of the fairway are perfect aiming spots and can only be reached by the longest hitters or on a favorable wind day.  Again the player gets a good view of another bridge from the teebox here and the overall visual is inviting.  The equipment facility can also be spotted off to the right for quick eyed players.  I'm happy with the sightlines from the tee box here.  Originally the fairway bunkers didn't really sit right with me from this vantage point, but I believe I got them to finally work.  There are additional bunkers short left of the fairway to catch badly hooked drives, I wanted to catch mishit dives that direction and not punish the player too badly with an OB drive into the water since it is reachable there.  The following bunker shot from there makes this a 3-hit hole 100% but still gives a player a chance to make a par or even birdie.



Rye grass and ash bushes dot the teebox area once again, providing depth and texture.  This picture is looking back at the teebox area giving the player a view of the bridge on the 2nd hole and gives you an idea of the teebox distances.  Its almost 40 yards from the front to the back tees.


The approach shot is a longer approach that really rewards the player for being long and accurate.  The view below is just beyond the fairway bunkers that one can see from the tee.  I did have more trees planted along the left side of the fairway here but they were removed to help with sightlines, shadows and playability.  The trees that remain still cause a player problems and won't allow a high fade onto the green with their second shot.  Instead a draw or a layup is the correct choice. Wind direction here is very important, a player must take that into account in order to score well on this hole.



For those who choose to layup, the landing area has been split by the cart path crossing the fairway.  A bunker guards the right side of the fairway here and the left used to have one also, but during testing play that bunker was removed.  From here you can still see that five bunkers guard the green to punish players who couldn't control a long second shot attempt to the green.  Again, left here is trouble with a steep slope to water, where as shots to the right are playable and sometimes will roll back into the fairway or green since everything is sloped, going right to left and back to front.



The green itself is pear shaped sloping back to front.  Pins on the right side are easier to get to with players attempting to reach in two, but are guarded by the front right greenside bunker making the shot a full carry to the green.  Left side pin placements are easier to draw into but will bring the possibility of  missing the green entirely if a player goes pin hunting.  Accurate long hitters will be rewarded with an eagle attempt here.  Walking away with a birdie after reaching the green in three is very possible.  There is a false front to this green, discouraging the player who tries to reach this green in two.  Anything that tried to roll up to the green here will get rejected.  BUT more advanced players maybe able to use that slope to their advantage in order to help stop low long approach shots from rolling off the back side of the green.




This picture is looking back at the approach shot before I removed some of the trees guarding the left side of the fairway.  If you notice on other pictures you won't see as much shadow in the fairway.  I may sill open it up more but for now I'm happy with the playability and look of the hole.



Overall I'm pretty happy with my 1st par5.  It offers a little of everything but still allows the player to score well here.  The hole is interesting and the sightlines are pretty good.  Even with the partially blind second shot I think I've made it open enough for the player to 'see' what's ahead without relying on the 'zoom' in feature of the game.  Shaping of the bunkers on this hole was a challenge (I'm not 100% sure why).  I struggled to make them look real without making them too deep.  I'm still not 100% happy with how they turned out but for now they are going to stay. Technically, the hole offers choices to the player and really only punishes a wayward shot. But even then a good score can be made as long as they stay in play and not reach the water.  Wind direction and strength will be a deciding factor on how this hole plays on any day.

That's if for this week, I've finished Hole4 and I'm currently working on the finishing touches to Hole5.  Next week with the holidays I most likely won't update much here since I will be actually playing 54 holes in real life.  But I'm still on pace to complete the front nine by the first of the year.  At that point, I'll most likely release a beta version of the course for your feedback.  Please remember the back nine will be playable but not cleaned up and finalized.  Any feedback here will bet greatly appreciated.

Thanks for Reading - Merry Christmas!

 

[bhazen]

Today we are going to take a peek at the par4, 4th Hole. From the elevated tee box surrounded by long rye grass and ash you get a good look at the hole.  A simple, straight hole with just a little elevation change that begs the player to strive for a birdie here.  If you have the wind in your favor off the tee, you could put yourself in good position for your second shot to attack a pin location here.






The landing area on the drive is quite wide: 30-40yd fairway allows a player to get aggressive off the tee.  This will set up the player for a long downhill approach shot.  If your drive is poor, short or off the fairway there is a layup area short left of the green.  




The green itself is guarding on the right front by the primary bunker - this puppy will swallow any ball hit short right.  The hardest pin locations here are the two located to the right side of the green.  These two locations require pinpoint accuracy in order to card your birdie.  A par on your scorecard is a good day.  If you are lucky and the pins are set to the left, there isn't much danger and birdie here is just asking to be made.



There's not much slope to this green, the trick to this hole is to reach in two.  Otherwise you could card a bogey here pretty easily.


 
Visually, I tried to make this hole appealing and give the player some nice sightlines to not only the hole but to the course itself.  You get a good view of the double arch bridge behind the green on your approach, and I really like how the downhill sightlines on the approach shot turned out.






That's about it for now, I'm running a little bit behind right now - real life stuff took me away from the time I thought I was going to be able to work on this.  I still plan to release a beta version here shortly.  The course itself is playable as is, but I need to fine tune the remainder of the holes.  I'd like to finish the front nine completely before I release the beta though.  Hopefully that will come by the end of next week now.

Thanks for Reading!  Happy New Year.

[bhazen]

Can't believe its been 10 days since my last update.  I've had my son in the Hospital for 13 days starting Christmas Eve with Lemierre's Syndrome (think blood infection) so I really haven't had time to work on this project all my free time was spend in the hospital or drive to and from.

That all being said, I'm about two weeks behind the internal schedule I set from myself but I've started making progress again so today I will be showing you the long par4 hole 5 (468 yards)


The hole itself is a uphill slight dogleg left long par four.  Again the tee shot is set up over water giving the player a good view of their generous landing area.  The more right you can put your drive on the fairway will give you a better angle into the green.  Just don't go too far right or you'll find yourself in the bunkers guarding the fairway here.




You can see from the above picture the landing area for your drive is generous, but positioning here is important - if you are hugging the left side of the fairway your approach shot is going to but much more difficult due to the uphill carry and the sand traps that are guarding the left side of the green. Again, I wanted to make the view to this shot interesting with the bailout area to the right, the trap on the right is really only there for visual framing.  The sightlines here just hint at the green complex - I wanted a realistic sightline for the player without using the zoom feature of the game here.  I honestly believe I've achieved that here, I've personally seen this type of shot in real life out on the course many times.

The green itself is rather basic again, fitting into the theme of the course.  Nothing fancy, but not a smooth tabletop.  Generally the surface goes right to left here with a small slope from front to back.  Long shots will get funneled off the back side if the golfer isn't careful.  Wind direction on this approach will determine what type of shot the player will attempt on their approach.  A cut, draw, backspin, etc.... all shot types will be options but the wind will really dictate what approach will be best.  Again you can see the bailout area to the right of the green, this area does wrap around a little.  The front right pin placement can be attacked whereas the other three locations will take a little more thought.  




Above the player can get a good look at the snack house behind the green here - if I have more meter at the end, I'll come back and dress that up a little more.


Looking back down the hill at the tee box you really get a good idea on the overall shape of the hole from this vantage point.


Overall I'm happy with how the hole turned out.  Playability on all tee boxes and pin locations work really well.  At 468 yards uphill, the hole offers several different options on how someone will play this.  Wind, club selections and tee box option will make this hole play differently almost every time you play it and as a designer that's what we want.  I've played this hole so many times in testing, I really can't remember being in the same location more than once anywhere on this hole. 

That's it for now.  I'm currently putting the finishing touches on hole 6.  Hole 7-9 are basically complete minus a few finishing touches.  Once I have finished up through hole 9 I'm going to make the Beta available to play (2k21 only since that's what I'm design on).  Hopefully I can get some feedback from everyone so I can insert that feedback into the course while I finish up 10-18.  As I've mentioned before the course is basically ready to release except these final touches.  (Except for hole10 - I don't like this hole and I will be reworking that one to make more realistic.  Right now its a par5 dogleg left that's to extreme, about 70* turn in the fairway that I don't like at all.  I will be straightening it out and moving the green complex.)

Thanks for Reading!

 
   

[scottish67]

If I had to give you any advice, it would be to get rid of the mow lines on the fairways. It would be great if the mow lines were random in the game, but they all run the same direction and they just look so unrealistic. Other than that keep plugging away.

[bhazen]

Jan 10, 2023 17:13:35 GMT -5 scottish67 said:

If I had to give you any advice, it would be to get rid of the mow lines on the fairways. It would be great if the mow lines were random in the game, but they all run the same direction and they just look so unrealistic. Other than that keep plugging away.

That's an easy fix - I wasn't too thrilled myself with the look and now that you mentioned that direction is always the same on the plot I can't unsee it.  I'll be removing that tonight when I fire it up to work on.  Thanks for the input.

[beastmode2824]

Jan 11, 2023 12:07:00 GMT -5 bhazen said:

Jan 10, 2023 17:13:35 GMT -5 scottish67 said:

If I had to give you any advice, it would be to get rid of the mow lines on the fairways. It would be great if the mow lines were random in the game, but they all run the same direction and they just look so unrealistic. Other than that keep plugging away.

That's an easy fix - I wasn't too thrilled myself with the look and now that you mentioned that direction is always the same on the plot I can't unsee it.  I'll be removing that tonight when I fire it up to work on.  Thanks for the input.

I really love your effort and dedication to this project. Keep up the good work.

[mattspy05]

Damn! is this your first ever course! that's insanely good

[bhazen]

Jan 12, 2023 21:13:32 GMT -5 mattspy05 said:

Damn! is this your first ever course! that's insanely good

Thanks for the kind words - but its not done yet, and I could just make a mess of this.  I'm really hoping to get the beta out soon so I get more feedback.  The problem with that is that I'm working on 2k21 and not 2k23 so I'm really not expecting too much feedback since most people have moved on to the new platform.  What I really enjoy is the whole design process, way more than playing the actual game. But I am looking for feedback so I can become a better designer.  Eventually I'll most likely more on to 2k23 but I'd really like 3-4 courses in the designer under my belt before I do that.

I'm so new to the designer it takes me hours just to figure out how to sculpt a bunker right or create a better (more realistic) sightline for an approach shot.  Its frustrating but enjoyable at the same time.  What I hate the most is planting grasses and bushes, that part is so time consuming but I've found is necessary in order to make the holes look more realistic.  

For example, this week instead of working on finishing up new holes, I've gone back and started playing with shadows on holes I've completed - I'm learning how they affect sightlines, contours, and visuals.  It's been an interesting learning process, but does take quite a bit of time for me to mess around with tree heights, sculpting etc, whereas a more advanced designer could whip something out in 5mins compared to my 30-45mins of design time.

The other thing I spend a lot of time on is proportions - trees, hills, cart paths, lakes, bunkers, greens, etc, the designer will allow for these outrageous sizes that can easily mess with the overall look you are going for.  There has been times I threw down a tree thinking it looks great off the tee but when I get next to it on a playthrough I notice its 6 stories tall and is totally out of place.  Grass has happened that way also - for example I played someone's course the other night where grass was 5 feet over my players head when I was standing next to it on a tee box.  The blades of grass were thicker than the torso of my player's body - that's not a look I'll ever go for it kind of fit the course, but not the realistic look I want to have on my courses.

Another issue I've had is making sure I do things in a certain order - I did my layout, then greens, tees and fairways, did SOME sculpting and then planted trees.  Once I did that I went and sculpted more.  Big mistake, I created floating trees on the plot.  I spent hours searching for these trees throughout the plot.  That was a nice learning experience .  Same thing goes for flattening tee boxes so I don't have floating tee markers, rocks, etc.....  Its frustrating but I expect to be much better at it on my next design.  It's almost like the order of operations we learned in math as kids.  Do it out of order and you're answer is going to be jacked up.

Later today or this weekend I might post with before and after pictures regarding the shadows I mentioned.  I really think that's important - its a small detail but I think it makes a huge impact when working sightlines and visuals on a hole when working in this digital medium.


Thanks!

[bhazen]

Jan 11, 2023 12:07:00 GMT -5 bhazen said:

Jan 10, 2023 17:13:35 GMT -5 scottish67 said:

If I had to give you any advice, it would be to get rid of the mow lines on the fairways. It would be great if the mow lines were random in the game, but they all run the same direction and they just look so unrealistic. Other than that keep plugging away.

That's an easy fix - I wasn't too thrilled myself with the look and now that you mentioned that direction is always the same on the plot I can't unsee it.  I'll be removing that tonight when I fire it up to work on.  Thanks for the input.

Over the weekend I removed the fairway mow lines - here's a small example of the par4 442yds 7th hole.  With and without the mow lines.




I've done a ton more work on the track over the long weekend.  Later today I'll submit a little of what I worked on.  Meter is currently at 84.1 so I'm not sure how much more I'll be able to jam into the course before I run out of room.