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Post by zooby97 on Nov 17, 2022 11:39:15 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity…Does anybody know what the 2K 21 games golf balls’ exact numbers were for spin, bounce, roll, ect?
And if they do how do they compare to the default balls numbers?
Or are we basically using the same ball as the last game but since we have these magic balls the default balls seem inferior?
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Post by sroel908 on Nov 17, 2022 11:41:04 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity…Does anybody know what the 2K 21 games golf balls’ exact numbers were for spin, bounce, roll, ect? And if they do how do they compare to the default balls numbers? Or are we basically using the same ball as the last game but since we have these magic balls the default balls seem inferior? The golf ball in 2K21 had no visible stats, as far as I recall. There was no way to change what ball you used, or even change what it looked like. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 11:53:31 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity…Does anybody know what the 2K 21 games golf balls’ exact numbers were for spin, bounce, roll, ect? And if they do how do they compare to the default balls numbers? Or are we basically using the same ball as the last game but since we have these magic balls the default balls seem inferior? There is definitely a lot more backspin to the default ball than 2K21 had from the fairway . 2K23's heavy rough lies are much more realistic regarding roll out too. Huge improvement in the short game from the last. Rough more penalising around the greens etc |
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Post by zooby97 on Nov 17, 2022 12:11:35 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity…Does anybody know what the 2K 21 games golf balls’ exact numbers were for spin, bounce, roll, ect? And if they do how do they compare to the default balls numbers? Or are we basically using the same ball as the last game but since we have these magic balls the default balls seem inferior? There is definitely a lot more backspin to the default ball than 2K21 had from the fairway . 2K23's heavy rough lies are much more realistic regarding roll out too. Huge improvement in the short game from the last. Rough more penalising around the greens etc In your honest opinion are the default balls inferior to the ball we used in the last game? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 12:20:30 GMT -5
There is definitely a lot more backspin to the default ball than 2K21 had from the fairway . 2K23's heavy rough lies are much more realistic regarding roll out too. Huge improvement in the short game from the last. Rough more penalising around the greens etc In your honest opinion are the default balls inferior to the ball we used in the last game? Much better than 2K21, the ball physics in the game is much better also down to the hole where you can get horseshoed putts now. We just need to be careful with green speeds ase some pins will be unplayable on faster green speeds. Not a huge thing, we test pins are playable on USE each week. Default balls and sim settings play great in the game. |
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Post by zooby97 on Nov 17, 2022 12:32:02 GMT -5
In your honest opinion are the default balls inferior to the ball we used in the last game? Much better than 2K21, the ball physics in the game is much better also down to the hole where you can get horseshoed putts now. We just need to be careful with green speeds ase some pins will be unplayable on faster green speeds. Not a huge thing, we test pins are playable on USE each week. Default balls and sim settings play great in the game. Then why are some people upset about them being locked for TGC Tours? You are telling me positive things. I personally think the courses that were ported over have changed. And then when you have the magic balls in peoples lockers for a month the default seems so different, which they are in comparison to the aviators, ect….. If we never had these consumable balls the complaints would be directed at the course designers with regards to some of the rollout. |
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Post by sroel908 on Nov 17, 2022 12:39:25 GMT -5
Much better than 2K21, the ball physics in the game is much better also down to the hole where you can get horseshoed putts now. We just need to be careful with green speeds ase some pins will be unplayable on faster green speeds. Not a huge thing, we test pins are playable on USE each week. Default balls and sim settings play great in the game. Then why are some people upset about them being locked for TGC Tours? You are telling me positive things. I personally think the courses that were ported over have changed. And then when you have the magic balls in peoples lockers for a month the default seems so different, which they are in comparison to the aviators, ect….. If we never had these consumable balls the complaints would be directed at the course designers with regards to some of the rollout. The thing is...the devs changed how green speeds are in this game, compared to how they are in 2K21. Greens roll faster in the new game, so courses ported from 2K21 that are set to 175 default speeds (or similar) are sometimes unplayable in 2K23. Some courses on 175 greens in 2K21 feel like putting on Velcro compared to what they feel like in 2K23. I know I had to tone down default speeds on two of my courses I ported over from 2K21, because I had pins set on yellow slopes that were impossible when playing them in 2K23. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 13:00:27 GMT -5
Much better than 2K21, the ball physics in the game is much better also down to the hole where you can get horseshoed putts now. We just need to be careful with green speeds ase some pins will be unplayable on faster green speeds. Not a huge thing, we test pins are playable on USE each week. Default balls and sim settings play great in the game. Then why are some people upset about them being locked for TGC Tours? You are telling me positive things. I personally think the courses that were ported over have changed. And then when you have the magic balls in peoples lockers for a month the default seems so different, which they are in comparison to the aviators, ect….. If we never had these consumable balls the complaints would be directed at the course designers with regards to some of the rollout. Default balls rollout is just too much on faster greens which is obviously introduced to have balls that have better stats and make course conditions easier. Regardless of sim which these arcade golf balls have no place there is the other factor of competitive play. Doyley and the rest of his team want a competitive tour here as do most of us that set up societies. How can it be competitive if someone with a consumable ball slows the green down by 30. The difference between a 160 speed green and a 130 speed green is massive in this game. Now everyone says the balls are not that VC expensive but that is beyond the point, people are not all going to be playing the same course difficulty. When we set up a tournament in our society we set it up to pose a different challenge for each day for everyone that plays that tournament, we might firm and speed up the greens for the weekend. The fact that someone can say 'sod that green speed I am playing my super slow stuck in the mud ball this round' is simply ludicrous. I think it's a very good option to have a consumable ball lock in societies and respect that some people like the more arcade balls and can still use them in their own society. For us that use default balls it's a very simple matter of toning those green speeds down a bit, simple solution. |
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Post by twofor22 on Nov 17, 2022 15:25:52 GMT -5
Much better than 2K21, the ball physics in the game is much better also down to the hole where you can get horseshoed putts now. We just need to be careful with green speeds ase some pins will be unplayable on faster green speeds. Not a huge thing, we test pins are playable on USE each week. Default balls and sim settings play great in the game. Then why are some people upset about them being locked for TGC Tours? You are telling me positive things. I personally think the courses that were ported over have changed. And then when you have the magic balls in peoples lockers for a month the default seems so different, which they are in comparison to the aviators, ect….. If we never had these consumable balls the complaints would be directed at the course designers with regards to some of the rollout. This is only my perspective, and I'm not upset about tgct locking out the other balls. I would rather have us all playing the same conditions. My beef isn't with tgct, it's with the developers. They're going about it arse about face. They put this option to lock out balls in, instead of fixing the real problem of the balls themselves having wildly varying bounce and roll properties. If they'd removed that rubbish, there wouldn't be a need for a lock out option. Forcing everyone into using the same ball, and wildly different bounce and roll properties on different balls are both highly unrealistic situations. The devs are like a high handicapper, they make one bad mistake and then compound it by making more mistakes. |
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Nov 17, 2022 15:57:03 GMT -5
I'd "fix" it by removing "maximum distance" (the 174 or whatever) and replacing it with the ACTUAL GREEN SPEED (the 4.9-14.6 we use in design or what the scheduler has set) I'd also replace the old "4.5-8.5" numbers used in the course details screen. One number - the SAME number - all the time during a round, everywhere it's presented.
Who really needs to know the farthest possible putt distance anyway ? Most chip anything over 80 feet, right ?
Those with charts for putting distance/swing strength can just replace "164" with "9.3".
Has anyone tried changing NOT balls, but putter fittings, and see if that affects maximum putt distance at all, as well ? I may try that this morning. Of course, I hate to waste VC on experiments, I don't play enough to earn a walletful, LOL.
More reading on the subject for those interested in understanding how club composition affects ball velocity (and thus roll distance), mainly for the "one length for all putts/putters/balls" crowd. www.paulhurrion.com/media/impact-ratio/That article is analysing impact point on the face and design of putter heads, doesn’t look at how ball roll is affected by ball compression or cover material, it’s a bit irrelevant to this discussion True, but some have argued that NOTHING - ball, player strength, club construct, NOTHING - should affect the 'max putt distance' number. That was for them. |
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Nov 17, 2022 16:13:17 GMT -5
I'd "fix" it by removing "maximum distance" (the 174 or whatever) and replacing it with the ACTUAL GREEN SPEED (the 4.9-14.6 we use in design or what the scheduler has set) I'd also replace the old "4.5-8.5" numbers used in the course details screen. One number - the SAME number - all the time during a round, everywhere it's presented.
Who really needs to know the farthest possible putt distance anyway ? Most chip anything over 80 feet, right ?
Those with charts for putting distance/swing strength can just replace "164" with "9.3".
Has anyone tried changing NOT balls, but putter fittings, and see if that affects maximum putt distance at all, as well ? I may try that this morning. Of course, I hate to waste VC on experiments, I don't play enough to earn a walletful, LOL.
More reading on the subject for those interested in understanding how club composition affects ball velocity (and thus roll distance), mainly for the "one length for all putts/putters/balls" crowd. www.paulhurrion.com/media/impact-ratio/I assume the reason the maximum putt distance number came about was because the 4.5-8.5 game numbers and the 4.9-14.6 designer numbers don't have any real meaning for those playing the game. It's contextually easier to understand that if you hit your putter 100% power on a very slow green (perfectly flat of course) it will travel 104 feet and if you hit 100% power on a very fast green it will travel 186 feet.
On the putter fittings point, they should not change maximum putt distance because the 'putt weight' attribute just increases your ability to hit your perfect power spot by making it larger (it is the equivalent of transition on other clubs). However, the 'For Dough' Level 1 (always active) putting skill DOES increase maximum putt distance. When I play the first green at Old Marina GC on Default I play 157s. When Rickie Fowler who has For Dough Level 1 plays it he plays 161s.
Rickie Fowler also has the 'Greenskeeper' Level 1 roll boost putting skill which means that if he misses the first two GIR the Greenskeeper skill activates and he plays the 3rd green at 163. If he then makes a par on the 3rd the Greenskeeper skill deactivates and he plays the 4th green at 161 again. Madness!
At this point, only an HB coder explaining the algorithms can possibly get it all to make sense to me.
What is "For Dough" simulating then, in addition to (?) widening the white zones ? More confidence ? Adrenaline ?
It's almost impossible to replicate a true stimpmeter effect, even setting a putting point on the edge of a 3-ft slope (isn't that the stimpmeter's length ?), and barely tapping it so that putter impact is negligible.
I saw less than 2 ft of rollout difference (91-92 feet was the stopping point on 8 of 10 tests) between default ball & purple aviators on the same green, despite the max distance changing. That is easily within the range of me 'tapping' the putt differently.
I realize that was NOT the ball with the smallest roll number, however it's a starting point - if those had varied by 4 or 5 ft, it would end the experiment quickly, with me definitely proved wrong.
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Post by InsanericK on Nov 17, 2022 17:08:27 GMT -5
Then why are some people upset about them being locked for TGC Tours? You are telling me positive things. I personally think the courses that were ported over have changed. And then when you have the magic balls in peoples lockers for a month the default seems so different, which they are in comparison to the aviators, ect….. If we never had these consumable balls the complaints would be directed at the course designers with regards to some of the rollout. Default balls rollout is just too much on faster greens which is obviously introduced to have balls that have better stats and make course conditions easier. Regardless of sim which these arcade golf balls have no place there is the other factor of competitive play. Doyley and the rest of his team want a competitive tour here as do most of us that set up societies. How can it be competitive if someone with a consumable ball slows the green down by 30. The difference between a 160 speed green and a 130 speed green is massive in this game. Now everyone says the balls are not that VC expensive but that is beyond the point, people are not all going to be playing the same course difficulty. When we set up a tournament in our society we set it up to pose a different challenge for each day for everyone that plays that tournament, we might firm and speed up the greens for the weekend. The fact that someone can say 'sod that green speed I am playing my super slow stuck in the mud ball this round' is simply ludicrous. I think it's a very good option to have a consumable ball lock in societies and respect that some people like the more arcade balls and can still use them in their own society. For us that use default balls it's a very simple matter of toning those green speeds down a bit, simple solution. That's a moving story. Poor dude with 160 speed green. Big disavanatage!! 😌 But it's all fair there. I see 2 people using Legendary balls on fast greens. Friction for the cheater, Magnet for the victim. The numbers dont match with 130 and 160, but it dosent matter with you. So where are we playing this fictionnal story? Is it Winged Foot? Oh! The dude with the magnet at 160 might be disavantage yeah. Bad choice of ball for Winged Foot imo! Or maybe it's one of those fat CC course with lots of giant flat greens? Boy, give the trophy to the magnet baller at 160 here, he will have it easier than the one playing in mud at 130 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 17:12:59 GMT -5
Default balls rollout is just too much on faster greens which is obviously introduced to have balls that have better stats and make course conditions easier. Regardless of sim which these arcade golf balls have no place there is the other factor of competitive play. Doyley and the rest of his team want a competitive tour here as do most of us that set up societies. How can it be competitive if someone with a consumable ball slows the green down by 30. The difference between a 160 speed green and a 130 speed green is massive in this game. Now everyone says the balls are not that VC expensive but that is beyond the point, people are not all going to be playing the same course difficulty. When we set up a tournament in our society we set it up to pose a different challenge for each day for everyone that plays that tournament, we might firm and speed up the greens for the weekend. The fact that someone can say 'sod that green speed I am playing my super slow stuck in the mud ball this round' is simply ludicrous. I think it's a very good option to have a consumable ball lock in societies and respect that some people like the more arcade balls and can still use them in their own society. For us that use default balls it's a very simple matter of toning those green speeds down a bit, simple solution. That's a moving story. Poor dude with 160 speed green. Big disavanatage!! 😌 But it's all fair there. I see 2 people using Legendary balls on fast greens. Friction for the cheater, Magnet for the victim. The numbers dont match with 130 and 160, but it dosent matter with you. So where are we playing this fictionnal story? Is it Winged Foot? Oh! The dude with the magnet at 160 might be disavantage yeah. Bad choice of ball for Winged Foot imo! Or maybe it's one of those fat CC course with lots of giant flat greens? Boy, give the trophy to the magnet baller at 160 here, he will have it easier than the one playing in mud at 130 Back in your arcade la la land I see 🥱 The thing is the people running these tours don't agree with you and most importantly for me the people running TST, so I will be taking part in that tour now reality has kicked in and we will all be playing the same course conditions,whether you like it or not. 😅 |
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Post by InsanericK on Nov 17, 2022 17:30:04 GMT -5
That's a moving story. Poor dude with 160 speed green. Big disavanatage!! 😌 But it's all fair there. I see 2 people using Legendary balls on fast greens. Friction for the cheater, Magnet for the victim. The numbers dont match with 130 and 160, but it dosent matter with you. So where are we playing this fictionnal story? Is it Winged Foot? Oh! The dude with the magnet at 160 might be disavantage yeah. Bad choice of ball for Winged Foot imo! Or maybe it's one of those fat CC course with lots of giant flat greens? Boy, give the trophy to the magnet baller at 160 here, he will have it easier than the one playing in mud at 130 Back in your arcade la la land I see 🥱 The thing is the people running these tours don't agree with you and most importantly for me the people running TST, so I will be taking part in that tour now reality has kicked in and we will all be playing the same course conditions,whether you like it or not. 😅 Time will tell! This game, or maybe this tour when they get tired of testing Pro Tours courses 15 times for the DB, will change. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 17:48:57 GMT -5
Back in your arcade la la land I see 🥱 The thing is the people running these tours don't agree with you and most importantly for me the people running TST, so I will be taking part in that tour now reality has kicked in and we will all be playing the same course conditions,whether you like it or not. 😅 Time will tell! This game, or maybe this tour when they get tired of testing Pro Tours courses 15 times for the DB, will change. Seen as I test greens for DB in my society and you don't I'm afraid your beloved arcade balls are not happening here. |
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