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Post by yeltzman on Aug 20, 2022 6:51:07 GMT -5
I am up to about 50 i think just to play the routeing but there is a big difference between playing them and releasing them to a certain standard. It is a shame in my view the changes happening to a lot of UK links with all these sandy waste area's it must be a new trend. Well if you do know any designer who has not got issue's with time or NDA's with 2k/HB effecting real courses and want to design and finish it tell them to get in touch because it needs to be in game because its hosting final qualifying of the open next year and i want to play along and that means i have to finish it.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 20, 2022 16:16:51 GMT -5
I feel bad for overly critiquing the RCRs in this game. I'm just happy they are included and are pretty darn accurate with the designer limitations we have. And you are right Ben, can't really fairly compare them to the user created courses.
I just played Kukimbia Kwa Fisi, Ballyhoo Park and Shakopee Creek and they are very impressive all around! Bandon Trails - TMT LIDAR is also an amazing RCR. Definitely need to include those in my "prestigious" top 150, which is now a top 154 lol.
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Post by yeltzman on Aug 21, 2022 3:40:26 GMT -5
I would never tell anybody what to play but if you liked the above search other TMT's others kingsbarns,whistling straits ryder cup (name removed by HB/2k) Royal birkdale (my tgc2019 Lidar version unreleased) and Forest of Arden which i think is really excellent. Just a Note on royal birkdale it's the pins from the 2017 open and if you go right on the 13th play where Spieth hit his shot and drop in 2017.It's why i love this game trying to get close to recreating what the pro's did. Just a shame the game engine is not really good enough to do it. Even better when you have the official strokesaver guide from the open to play along with.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 21, 2022 4:33:16 GMT -5
Hey yeltzman. Holy cow, that is a very detailed stroke saver guide. I'll have to try a round using it without scout cam and see if I can break par. I played Royal Birkdale on TGC 19 (don't know if it's the version you are talking about) and remembered it being good.
Were you the guy who made the spreadsheet a few years back listing RCRs based on how accurate they were?? If so, that was a huge help figuring out which of the many versions in '19 were the correct ones to play.
Did you make Bandon Trails and all the courses you listed above? I've definitely played Whistling Straits a number of times (the craig118 version I believe) and I like that course, it's a really good challenge. Kingsbarns Links Lidar is really good too. Forest of Arden I'll have to give it a spin. By all means, the more recommendations the better.
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Post by yeltzman on Aug 21, 2022 4:44:10 GMT -5
Nope i did not design any of the above only the lidar course file of Birkdale in tgc2019 and the designer added to it and released it in 2k21 because at the time i had no plans getting the game on pc.Nope i would never do a spreadsheet comparing anything because you have to remember with RCR's it down to the amount of time and the amount of data you have to design it decent it's really why you shouldn't comment on them too much (only the good ones). Don't like doing this a little self promotion but if you like to try the 150th open from st andrews on Lidar with the pin positions (don't alter green speed designed to play as they were) and the guide try this. Search 150th Open Champioship (in 2k21) and click on course guide below. golf.com/travel/st-andrews-course-yardage-book-map-scorecard/Friday pins i think were the toughest overall if you would like to play it without Scout so you got everything there.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 21, 2022 5:05:35 GMT -5
Nice, thanks for the link man and I'll have to try out that version of the Old Course. I'm keeping green grid on though cause those greens are massive haha.
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Post by yeltzman on Aug 21, 2022 5:54:53 GMT -5
Yep its the putt's with not much break the one's i can't read TST,i need a Auto Putt script to solve that problem or better eyes.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 21, 2022 18:14:49 GMT -5
Hey yeltzman, I played some of those TMT courses you recommended. My putter was on fire and I tore them up pretty good but this game is pretty easy. El Saler (LIDAR) - ESP - TMT was a pretty cool track. I like how you started out in a dense forest with the overgrown trees that required shot shaping. Then on the fifth hole you open up into the dunes and play towards the ocean. Good routing between the forest and dunes throughout the round. Unfortunately, it crashed my PS4 twice before I even got to the first hole and then another 3 times throughout the round. But I powered through and finished. I had never heard of it before but apparently it's the #2 course in Spain according to this. www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/continental-europe/spainOcean Dunes Lidar - AUS - TMT. What a fantastic setting that must be in real life. www.top100golfcourses.com/img/courses/ocean-dunes_8674636b-c7d6-444a-b92f-a4a8be44edc2.jpgObviously the designer doesn't allow you to recreate that but the guy did a pretty good job especially with the shorelines. Fun course, the greens were wild! A lot of punchbowl types and kicker slopes. Thanks for suggesting them.
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Post by yeltzman on Aug 22, 2022 9:16:06 GMT -5
Just a Personnel view but i think you would enjoy RCR's a lot more and maybe appreciate the design of them if you played master on 2k21.Again all down to choice from those who shoot 23-25 under to those who like level par golf.I think its the Spanish one won't load for me on the old xbox just the trouble with Lidar and old consoles and the problems you have to overcome to design them.
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Post by Doyley on Aug 22, 2022 10:18:14 GMT -5
Amazing posts - like a trip down memory lane and definitely need to revisit some of these courses. Gonna bookmark this thread.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 22, 2022 19:41:00 GMT -5
Doyley: Thanks, I'm happy you enjoyed it! I've been taking notes on the courses while I've been playing them over the years and I thought I'd share my thoughts with the community. I may have ruffled a few feathers or stepped on a few toes regarding the RCRs but hey we are all big boys here.
In hindsight, the idea of comparing the user created courses to the real life top 100 lists was probably a mistake or a unfair judgement. You could just call this my favorite courses or ones I'd recommend instead. My opinions come from a guy who has about half an hour experience in the designer. I don't have the appreciation for what it takes to truly build a fantastic track. I have started to watch a few design tutorials from crazycanuck and b101 and now I'm starting to realize and understand the technical marvels you designers have all truly achieved. I may attempt a course when the new game comes out. But the competition and my own expectations are so high that I might just stick to playing.
The point of an RCR in my opinion is to create the most accurate representation of the hole designs based on the real life course, first and foremost. If there are too many bunkers or not enough, the greens are wrong, or a few holes are quite different, then it's not really an accurate RCR. There are some versions like Barnbougle Dunes and Ballybunion as some examples, which although are fun to play, are quite a bit different from their RL counterparts. And they don't provide the same strategic elements the original architect intended.
Second is to attempt to capture the environment, which Grovey pointed out, is nearly impossible to do. Maybe when the people who created courses like Pine Valley or Royal County Down were happy with the finished results and didn't feel like going into the effort to spend hours planting. They were just happy releasing a playable version. Or the planting meter was full. Or it's simply not realistic to pull off the rugged waste areas of PV or the majestic dunes covered in gorse in full bloom, of RCD. I don't know, I'm not a designer.
Comparing them to the user created courses, isn't fair. Most of the courses on the list are contest courses. Everyone is trying to beat their friends/rivals, they need to create something truly unique that stands out from the rest and check all the boxes the judges are looking for. All the while making it challenging for the gameplay mechanics provided by HB.
The real courses have to balance challenge for the scratch golfer and playability for the general public or members. All the while providing a fun experience in the natural setting. Some courses like Carnoustie are championships courses designed to challenge the best. Others like resort courses in Mexico or the Caribbean are designed for the tourist. The courses ranked so highly IRL blend all of these together, which I guess justifies their ranking.
With all that being said, I stand by my opinions and that is how I rank them. One day I might edit the OP and put the RCRs in their own category. And I have some more great courses to add to the list. I still think some of the courses would translate pretty good to well to real life. Yoho River Course, you make some adjustments to make it more playable for real golf and it would rival Banff Springs as the best course in Alberta.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 22, 2022 21:05:20 GMT -5
yeltman: "i think you would enjoy RCR's a lot more and maybe appreciate the design of them if you played master on 2k21."
I do appreciate the RCRs for what they are, a recreation of a real course. I've accepted that (with a few exceptions) they are easier and not as visually appealing as a user course.
I have tried masters and it's just not as enjoying of an experience for me. In the old game, you'd get an advantage by being able to hit it further but being less accurate. In this game, the distances are the same and the sensitivity of the thumbstick just frustrates me. And I don't even want to hit it further. I don't use the max drivers. I like being a shorter hitter.
IRL I'm not a big guy, my swing speed is pretty slow and I'm terrible out of greenside bunkers. I'm never able to reach par 5s in two. The strengths of my game are accuracy with the driver and putting. I don't have the time or money to play as much as I would like and my golf game suffers because of it. I don't get to travel to Ireland or Bandon or play private courses. I enjoy golf because of the comraderies between friends, being on a well manicured piece of land and the challenge of the extreme difficulty of the game. It's very rewarding hitting good shots and I usually enjoy the round but often times I walk away extremely humbled haha.
That is the beauty of video games, you get to experience things in the virtual world you would never get to do in the real. Like flying a fighter jet. Or doing drive-bys in your Lamborghini. Or exploring deserted cities and sneaking up on zombies lol.
On this game, I get to experience golf in a different way. I get to bomb my drives 300 yards and have a killer short game while playing world class courses. In my own little fantasy world, I am a world class golfer lol. If I shoot par, I played bad, if I shoot 62 I played great or the course (with the HB mechanics) was easy. I'm happy shooting my average of 67 with a bogey or two. And half those pars are usually a decent battle to get them.
But I do incorporate some houses rules. I try to get away from using the splash and flop as much as I can, they are overpowered. Sure I could splash it to 3 feet with a 9-iron but I'd rather use the contours of the green or surround areas to run my ball there with a 7 iron chip instead. It's way more rewarding when you pull it off instead of just down up on the joystick. I try to utilize the "Dave Pelz 1:30, 3 o'clock, 4:30 pitch method" (if you know what I mean) to control distance and manufacture shots instead.
If I'm in a bunker and have short sighted myself with a tight pin and I need to land the ball on a downslope green running away from me, a terrible scenario. Sure I could max loft, max spin my gap wedge, but who does that crap IRL? I'll try a partial swing instead and if the ball runs out 25ft past the hole, hey that's golf and I shouldn't have been so aggressive on the approach. I'll need to make a good putt.
If I'm between a 4 or a 5 iron, I won't play a crazy fade with the 4 to knock off 10 yards. I'll just be happy being 20 feet short and accept the challenge of having to make a tough put or settle for par.
Or, I'd be nice to go for the par 5 in two for a chance at an eagle putt. But to do that I need to play a super cheesy high loft, max backspin with a 3 wood. Show me a real life example of a golfer putting backspin on his 3 wood haha. So I'll just lay up and try and get up and down for birdie instead.
I also usually play on very firm fairway conditions to help reduce the driving accuracy and making it more difficult to place drives exactly where I want them. And I always play medium winds minimum, and often times high. On the UK links courses, sometimes very high to mimic that authentic experience.
And I take risks and try to pull off some heroic shots. Often times missing and putting myself in a bad spot.
So I feel it all kinda balances itself out in the end. Even on Pro, a bad swing will punish you. On masters I find it too hard to get a good swing, and a hook or slice is a huuuge hook or slice. So it just stresses me out and takes away the hole point of playing video games in the first place, to relax.
But I'm happy you enjoy the game the way you play. That's the great thing about difficulty settings.
The RCRs I might start keeping the driver in the bag and only hitting 3 wood max off the tee and playing with VF/VF greens to increase the difficulty and play the way they are intended to IRL. It might change the dynamics of them for sure.
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Post by gamesdecent on Aug 22, 2022 22:58:01 GMT -5
CALIFORNIA STYLE Cypress Dunes - I really wish this course was ported to 2k21 as it was a beast and very artfully planted and sculpted. One of my all time favorites.I’ve brought it in a couple times to port but I’d want to replant it completely to do it justice and, honestly, I always look at the holes and the routing and decide it’s just not good enough to warrant the effort. I think that one’s reputation was mostly just a product of overcoming the limitations of the designer in the last game. Course itself really kind of sucks, looking back on it. Glad you like Cypress Point though, I will be replanting that one for the new game, if I end up buying it.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 23, 2022 0:13:17 GMT -5
Ah, you're too hard on yourself man. I really enjoyed Dunes. She was a brute, made you think on every shot and they were all challenging ones too. And I thought it was beautiful.
Ya, Point is probably my favorite RCR. I think you did an amazing job recapturing it.
Te Arai isn't in 2k21? I haven't been able to find it.
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Post by yeltzman on Aug 23, 2022 3:36:43 GMT -5
Not seen this one on your list but to me TPC Harding Park (tour) a lidar version of the 2020 pga championship one of the best lidar's around i reckon with the pin positions etc.
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