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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:04:23 GMT -5
Hi, I'm Jon. I'm from Canada. I've never posted here before, but I have been "lurking" around like a creeper finding courses to play for years and I gotta thank you all in the community for your outstanding work and dedication to this game.
It all started a few years ago when I felt like playing a golf video game. So, I fired up my old Tiger Woods game on the old PS3 and quickly realized that it definitely did not age well. I started searching for newer golf games and found The Golf Club 2019. I downloaded it and after a few days getting used to it, I fell in love with the realism. You could no longer bomb 400 yard drives with maxed out super clubs, power boost, control spin in mid air, and drain every 40 footer.
After playing most of the official courses, some good, others not so much, I did some more digging and realized that this game had a plethora of RCRs. I went through the top 100 North American and World golf course rankings and most of them were on here!! Private courses like Cypress Point and Pine Valley that I realistically would never get a chance to play and bucket list courses like Cabot Cliffs, Royal County Down and the old classics Pebble Beach and St. Andrews. I couldn't believe it. After my world tour running out of courses to play, I somehow found these boards and came across the design contest sections. I looked at some photos and though huh, these look pretty realistic. I fired up a couple and was completely floored. This is when I fully realized how incredible this game really is. I started devouring the TGC Tours database and clicking on designer profiles and playing any course that looked appealing. It's like music, you hear one song and that leads to a different artist and another and it just snowballs.
I cannot believe the creativity of you designers! The attention to detail and dedication to your hobby is simply amazing! There are soooo many great courses on these games. If any of these courses were real, I honestly think they would give most of the real life top 100 courses a run for their money. Sure some of them maybe have a few too many conveniently placed bunkers here and there, they have to be to keep the driving challenging. Or some greens are a wee bit overcooked. And some of them are a little unrealistic in regards to general accessibility for the public/members, personal safety around some cliffs and the feasibility of how to get heavy construction equipment in and out of that plot or the daily turf maintenance, hahaha. But hey, its a video game after all.
So, I've decided to do a ranking of my own. I have loosely grouped the courses into categories based on their style. A lot of them are organized by themes such as Highlands, Delta, etc. But I tried to narrow it down even further than that.
I play on pro setting, with the power meter turned off and I still hit bad shots. I would say I shoot anywhere from 59-76 depending on the course or how I play but I probably average 5-6 under each round. I almost always take the risk in the risk/reward scenario, cause I feel I can get up and down about 75% of the time. I don't have to look for my ball or hold up the group behind me and golf balls are free. I have tried masters and the higher difficulties but its too much for me. I play this game to relax and unwind and I don't want to be hitting hooks and slices and hitting 62-78% sidehill/downhill lies into strong winds and trying to stop the ball on your guy's very challenging greens haha. And I'm about an18 handicap IRL so I don't wanna be doing that crap in both real and virtual golf.
I always play a minimum of medium winds but high or very high on links style or open terrain courses. The fairways are always firm or very firm. I think the physics with how the ball lands with mid irons is a little too bouncy, so I play mostly moderate but sometimes firm greens. And lastly, green speeds are always fast, cause I like the challenge of the putting. You may think that is the way to play but I don't care, I have fun.
Things I like in courses:
Natural, realistic looking: Pretty much every course on this list has this. Everyone has done an incredible job. I cannot believe the detail and patience you all have. It is truly an artform. I have saved many photos to my computer and am just stunned whenever I look at them.
Bearded Bunkers
Heroic carries over cliffs and water
Elevation changes
Peninsula Greens
Tightly mowed green surrounds to allow options for approaches and recovery
Drive-able Par 4s and reachable par 5s
McKenzie style bunkers
Waste bunkers
White Sand
Things I don't like:
Ridiculous sculpting and fantasy land courses made by kids or hack designers. Many times I have fired up a course, played one hole and was like ummmm no.
Seth Raynor style geometric bunkers. Like The Chicago Golf Club. I like the templates, I'm just not a fan of that bunker style.
Courses with more uphill shots than downhill or level shots
Island greens
Target style point shoot and land golf.
I judge the course based on:
Creativity/Uniqueness - Is there anything that stands out or is different from the rest? If someones asks you about a course, do you associate a memorable feature from it?
Visuals/Views/Planting/Colour Scheme/Bunker Style - I play on PS4 so I can't zoom around the plot looking at off hole details. But is the clubhouse cool? Does the course offer some stunning views? How realistic and detailed is the vegetation? Do the fairways, greens, rough, bunkers and surrounding areas contrast nicely and does the overall atmosphere work?
Shot Values - how difficult, memorable and fun are the shots?
Strategy/Replay Value - do the holes play the same with different pins and winds or do you have options on your drives and approaches?
Sorry for the long winded introduction, I just want anyone who reads this to know where I'm coming from.
Hopefully this will lead to some good healthy discussion, not much arguing or anyone's feelings getting hurt haha. Thanks again, to everyone in the design community, you guys are true artists in my mind.
So without further ado, I present MY TOP 150 COURSES OF TGC19/2K21
EDIT: After finding and playing some more courses, this list is now closer to 200.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:06:13 GMT -5
COASTAL LINKS
This is my favorite style of course. The ocean/lake views are always great. I usually play on very firm fairways giving you some funny and unpredictable bounces. High winds as well. Water is a huge theme throughout this game and I tried to limit this category to courses where the water is in play on at least 3 holes.
Cabot Cliffs - I love this course, it has everything. Width, strategy, green contours, heroic shot making. Trying to figure out the right angle with the wind blowing to get a potential eagle putt on 17, is one of the best shots in the game IMO
Strathlorne - It's tough to decide which is better between this or Cabot. A few of the approaches to the peninsula greens in high winds are nerve racking, very rewarding if you nail them and round killing if you miss.
Cruden Bay - Found this watching the No Laying Up Youtube channel, really fun course, would love to play this IRL
Shoreditch Links (Tour) - I love the atmosphere and the bunkers, a tough demanding course that punishes you if you don't execute but rewards you if you do.
Kingsgate (Tour) - A good variety between the coastal and more inland holes.
Bandon Sheep Ranch - I remember going into this thinking no bunkers?! But the contours make every hole fun and interesting. I always crank up the winds.
Bandon Dunes 2019 Lidar - This can play dramatically different depending on pins and winds. to nitpick, the planting could be a little more authentic.
New Highland Dunes 2019 - Extremely fun course playing the slopes.
Waka Tawai - I love the glowing sunrise the whole round and the drivable par 4 finisher. Great visuals on this one
Kairos Balter G.C. - Some unique holes, solid and fun.
Breton Bay Golf Course - Nailed the Cape Breton look, love playing those fairway slopes, the elevation and the Maritimes views
Spirits Promise GC - Great routing and variety, with demanding approaches and some tricky greens
Ardoilean - The cross course views from some of the elevated holes are just breathtaking. Fun track.
Whiskey Run - The most dramatic and challenging of the Whiskey Resort.
Whiskey Dunes Tour - A good mix of coastal and inland holes.
Whiskey Trails - Bandon Trails vibes for sure.
La Bombia Bluffs - The old classic. Fun shots and some great views.
Kyssesteiner Golf Klubb - I like the twilight lighting, wish the Lofoten version had it. Pretty unique setting and some really creative hole designs.
Club of Rhode Island - Very solid all around.
Edendale Warf - Very very pretty looking, some of my favorite planting.
Cape Clements, Tasmania - Cool take on Cape Wichham, a course I wish was in the game. Not a huge fan of the shade of green on default settings but a very solid all around course.
Whistling Straits - I hate you Pete Dye you madman. Tough driving course.
New South Wales GC (Tour) - Spectacular setting and a few really tricky holes. I like how the designer did the pot bunkers
Arcadia Bluffs - Some very fun elevated drives and some extreme green slopes, mandatory high winds minimum.
Far Water - Very cool bridge and seaport. I used to love using the kicker slope with a punch drive on the one dogleg left par 4 in '19. I miss the punch shot.
Greak Lakes Nine - One of the better environments I have played through bar none. I hope it could be expanded to a full 18 in the new game.
Fenyard Keep - Good shot values.
Old Faroe Dunes - Fun track with well placed bunkers.
Tarakoi (Tour) - Pretty cool how the fairways run off right into the sand, I like the par 3s the most about this course.
Kingsbarns Links Lidar - The more I played it the more the initial intrigue wore off but IRL I think it would be a pretty fun course.
Sleeping Bear Valley - Reminds me a little of Whistling Straits, a pretty decent challenge.
West Coast GC, Norway - Very cool rocky terrain in a Norway setting.
Royal Portrush 148th Open - Besides the one crazy downhill drivable par 4, this course is solid if unremarkable but still enjoyable. At least compared to some other user created links in this game. Have to play on VH winds to make it a challenge
Shearwater Sands - I like the wide rumpled green fairways contrasting with the brownish rough and the pot bunkers, good par 5s and overall green complexes IMO
Lofoten Links (Tour) - It would be cool if the designer allowed you to add some Northern Lights or gave you lighting to replicate the effect of playing the course at 3am in the Icelandic winter. Despite being shorter, the course is narrow with small undulating greens and plenty of water in play to keep you engaged throughout.
Turnberry Ailsa - A credit to all the designers that this top 3 Scotland course has been surpassed by you all. IRL its probably amazing with the views and all but I feel it's a little overrated. The holes are solid if unspectacular though.
Seven Devils - Some really nice naturally looking bunkers and environment, course is maybe a little too tight though IMO.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:07:43 GMT -5
INLAND LINKS
Hilly dunesy style courses like Sand Hills or traditional links like Royal St. George's. There may be coastal views, but water isn't really in play.
Sattler Heads - Black - Oh my god this course is crazy good, definitely one of my top 10 favorites. The shot values are so fun and the cross course views of the blue course are killer. Some phenomenal planting and waste bunkers.
Lost Preserve (Tour) - IRL this would be the best Bandon course hands down, just crushed it out of the park on this. The one hole with the blind tee shot over the massive dune, I stand on the tee box for more than a minute or two and wipe the drool off my face every time. IMO, I like Sattler a little more but by the most slim of margins. Fight me.
Peconic Fields GC (Tour) - This is what I envisioned Shinnecock should have been. Very strategic and challenging and he just nailed the countryside look.
Kingsley Club 2022 - One of the funnest courses currently in the game IMO. Over time I think this will shoot shoot up the American rankings.
Sand Hills Lidar - Ya I can see how that is ranked top 10 or 15 in America. Coore/Crenshaw are really good architects. Visually its nothing to shake a stick at but solid and I guess that's why they call Nebraska a flyover state eh?
Yellowgrass Prairie Club - I wish this course were really in Saskatchewan, it would put my home course Dakota Dunes to shame. The size of this plot and the valleys and hills between holes are pretty impressive.
T'kope Tatoosh - Sick course, I really like the par 3s and the Bandon esq vibes on this one.
Bragg Highlands - Some wacky holes. I love the tightly mowed fringe areas with the grid and the wide light rough which is a courteous gift for those crazy fairways.
Friars Head - I love the clubhouse and the feeling of isolation between the huge dunes on some of the holes. I will never get a chance to play this private course. I think it will continue to rise in the RL rankings and overtake Fisher's Island for the better New York course one day.
St Enodoc GC, Cornwall (L) - A charming and cheeky little par 69 links.
St. Cyrus - Great par 3 finisher, I love the stream and stone wall on a few holes, just a quirky fun links.
Old Ainsdale (Open) - Not flashy but every shot is a challenge and makes you think.
Silent Dunes - A good variety of dunesy holes and holes with the lake in play, very nice looking.
Lahinch (2019 Irish Open) - Fun old school links. Another find from the No Laying Up Youtube channel. Playing the blind punchbowl par 3 with no scout cam is mandatory.
St. Andrews - An obvious classic but a little on the easy side. But if you miss your approach you can face some monster putts. The road hole is still a pretty damn challenging par and an almost impossible birdie, for me at least.
Royal County Down - This might be the RCR which underwhelms me the most. I mean, the designer did a great job with the routing and hole design to accurately mimic the real course as far as I can tell. But the planting and atmosphere just isn't there for me. If you look at the video on their official website, it looks amazing and worthy of a top 3 links course IRL. If you look at the in game version, it just doesn't compare. But the holes are still great. I wish someone would take this file and just go nuts on the planting and redo the bunkers.
CARNOUSTIE,TOUR ED (FIX) - A really challenging course with the Burn and OB so close to play on a few of the holes. No wonder they call it Carnasty. Really good job on this RCR by the designer.
North Berwick West (L) - A lot of courses both real and fictional have taken inspiration from here and I can see why. The hole designs are great and the stone wall in play is really cool.
Farington Moss - The more I play this the more I like it, really good representation of a true links course.
Old Aulton Links - Not bad for a very quick routing with minimal time spent on fairway sculpting and letting the land of the plot do most of the work. This guy just cranks out good courses in his sleep.
Royal Beardshaw Old Links -Not much elevation but I like the fans lining the fairways and I've hit my fair share of them.
Te Arai Dunes - Love the exposed sand look and the extreme width that adds to the replay values with wind/pin settings.
Royal Dornoch - This is one i play on max settings, and those perched greens are tough to hit/hold.
Lunan & Braehead Links - Great use of the burn throughout the routing and a fun track.
Cuckold's Green - Wild terrain and greens, fun course for practicing your lag putting on.
Rath at Scarden Beg - This course snuck up on me the first time I played it, it's a tough track.
Aberffraw - Carnoustie feeling but with some nice original hole designs
Crail GS, Craighead (L) - A pretty fun rugged layout.
Erin Hills (Tournament) - The biggest defense this course has is its length. I was shooting long irons into almost every hole and playing into the wind, it's a brute.
Chambers Bay - This course is hard, the extreme uphill approaches get me every time.
Shinnecock Hills - This is a course that I don't think justifies the top 5 RL ranking. I haven't played it IRL and maybe it's a beast but on this game it's pretty easy. If you max out the settings to give it the '04 US Open USGA lost it vibe, maybe. The back nine gets a little better, but overall, I don't see the hills. Maybe this RCR just doesn't do it justice. Has anyone played this IRL?
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:09:08 GMT -5
MOUNTAINS 14
Any course with mountains, whether it be tightly routed through them or in expansive open valleys.
Big Sky Creek - One of the funnest courses in the game. So many amazing shots to experience and great par 3s.
Misery & Company GC - Some stunning cliff and waterfall work and cool views of the Missouri arch. The golf is engaging too. I'm pulling for this in National Treasure.
Carinthia Club - The views standing on the tee box on virtually every hole are just phenomenal as are the little cabins and such.
Quenneville Ranch - Expansive views and great strategic golf. Great elevation. Wicked course.
Gozzer Ranch (L) - I love this mountain track, really fun elevated par 3s.
Alotian Club LiDAR (t) - This should rise in the RL rankings in the future I would think, very fun shot values.
Yoho River Golf Course - Nailed the Stanley Thompson, Banff/Jasper vibes.
Toozaza - Everything you'd want in a mountain course, views, drive-able par 4s, elevated drives, nice par 3s, a big lake. Cool course.
Sheep River Club - One of the better mountain courses in the game I think, really nice creek that comes into play.
Weeping Spruce - I always blast my driver down that huge canyon on that elevated par 3 and take my double. Such a cool view. Some really fun holes.
Hallstatt Golf Club (Tour) - Very, very fun if extreme course. Like a 10 second hangtime on that 100ft downhill par 3.
Falling Water - I feel like this course is solid but I don't quite understand the rep it gets. Maybe it just doesn't visually appeal to me but I like other mountain courses more. Some fun holes though.
Drinkwater Basin Club - The sheer size of this plot is very cool, some good challenging holes too.
Harrier Creek - Few pull off the visuals better than this guy but it is bordering a little on the unrealistic side for my liking. Some pretty unique and fun hole designs though.
Redtail River - Amazing visuals and a fun course.
Cerro Torre GC - Spectacular setting and I love the bunkers and overall planting.
Broken Hatchet - The first time I played this I was blown away with the visuals. The Mountaineers logo is incredibly cool, and some of the views when you are putting and can see the holes way below you are rad. With that being said, this is a course that could use a renovation IMO because the environment was nailed but the strategy is lacking.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:10:19 GMT -5
SECLUDED FOREST
Anything with dense trees that you may have to shape shots around or punch out of if you get into trouble.
Pine Valley GC (Lidar) - This is another RCR that needs a planting renovation. With it being a Lidar, it's obviously very accurate, but Hell's Half Acre and the waste areas just doesn't feel right. On max conditions though, it is very tough to break par.
Firethorn National - Snobby Augusta and their censorship crap. Classic, classic course tho. From watching The Masters on TV you don't realize the fairways are as hilly as they are. Amen's Corner isn't as scary as real life I would think but I still manage to bogey at least one of them. The greens on VF/VF can get ya.
Bandon Trails - TMT LiDAR - Great routing taking you through three different environments and always a fun playthrough.
Lake Sofia - Eye candy on every hole. A top 10 prettiest course for me.
Camden Pines - This course is sneaky tough, I like the Pine Valley vibes.
Necedah Pines - Very chilled environment.
Oakland Hills South - Donald Ross' best work I think. Those greens are tough, and its not an easy driving course either. Definitely a worthy US Open venue.
Caterfae C.C. (T) - This feels like it could host a U.S. Open tomorrow, it is tough to score well here. The fairways are well guarded by nicely sculpted bunkers and the greens are heavily contoured with some devilish pin placements. Feels a little like Oakland Hills South to me.
Crystal Park Championship - I like the Tin Cup finisher, fun tournament course.
Old Olkham Village - Beautiful, crisp autumn day with a fair test of golf.
Reverand Green Golf Club - I like how the stream is incorporated into the routing. Challenging but fair classic style course.
Avery Fields Golf Club-T - Similar and just a notch below Reverand for me. Admittedly I need to play more of these two to distinguish one from the other.
St. Georges G&CC - Canada's #2 course. Chilled secluded forest setting. Another course I would love to play but with it being private, probably never will.
Grovetown American (Tour) - A nice nod to Augusta and a good challenge. The par 3s really stand out here for me.
Pinehurst No. 2 2024 - Sneaky tough. It's hard for me to tell one hole from the other as they all kinda blend together. Stripe your drive between sandy pine straw and then try to land on the green that is really only 2/3 the size it actually is, with 1 or 2 bunkers guarding it. But at the end of the round you look at your scorecard and see you're only 3 under.
Southern Hills CC (PGA) - Some pretty tricky greens and surround areas and some tough drives. I can see how it's a frequent major site.
Smoked Charred Pines - Amazing atmosphere and colour palette.
Tierra Dorada - One of the best looking courses IMO.
Jardins Des Nenuphaux - A nice calm French environment. I like the par 3s and 5s.
Suzaku, Japan - I like the look of this and is my favorite Japan themed course.
Overbrook Valley - Classy and fun.
The CC of Scranton (L) - Ranked #4 in Pennsylvania according to top100golfcourses.com, fun and beautiful course.
Old Town Golf Club Lidar - This North Carolina course has some nice elevation and a creek that comes into play which make this a fun test.
Kinniconick Golf Club - A very realistic feeling course that could almost be mistaken for an RCR. Lovely bunkers and some nice hole designs.
Jackdaw Heath TOUR - Cool pine forest setting with the exposed sand.
Shadow Creek (Lidar) - A couple of standout holes but overall kinda overrated, barely made the list. One of the only Tom Fazio courses that I have tried and liked though.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:11:34 GMT -5
CALIFORNIA STYLE
Cypress Point - I still can't believe I can fire up this ultra private top 3 course whenever I want. It's short and I think I got it pretty much cased, but there are some tricky pins. Those white dunes and coastal par 3s are just magnificent.
17 Mile Club - Pure class is all I can really say, CP still has a few more unique and memorable holes IMO but only by a slim margin. And I've learned some cheat codes on CP. But comparing this to a consensus top 3 world course is high praise. Great work.
The Malibu Club - This course kicks my ass every time, I really need to stop taking the silly risks. Very tough and beautiful course.
Pasatiempo Golf Club - Those MacKenzie bunkers are simply stunning and the greens are very treacherous. Really fun routing.
Santa Ynez Valley Club - Just a gorgeous course, nailed the Pasa vibes.
Cypress Dunes - I really wish this course was ported to 2k21 as it was a beast and very artfully planted and sculpted. One of my all time favorites.
Del Monte Heights GC Tour - Reminds me a little of Riviera, but better. Some really good variety and options here.
Montellago Golf Club - Really cool use of the barranca and the way the course seems to follow the lay of the land.
Pebble Beach GL (Tour) - The classic course that is in every video game. The novelty has worn off by now for me, but I'd still love to play it IRL. A few tricky holes and some incredibly easy ones.
Spyglass Hill - an underrated course IRL, good challenge.
Olympic Club Lake - Tough driving course with the narrow cambered fairways, the clubhouse high up on the hill is very cool to.
Riviera - Classic cali course. The bunker in the middle of the green is obviously unique as is the double fairway hole. The greens are quite small and can be hard to hit/hold but overall its a pretty easy course.
Geogaddi DT - Cool environment and bunkers and some fun holes.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:12:22 GMT -5
AUSTRALIAN SANDBELT
I always love the bunker styling of these courses, especially how they cut into the greens making them play smaller than they are.
Frankston Heath - IMO the best Sandbelt course in the game. Great bunkers and the water comes into play which no other courses really have.
Sandbelt v1 - If this had the planting of Frankston, it would be the best Sandbelt. Great strategic course. Shame it's not in 2k21
Oakleigh Dunes - A strong contender for best Sandbelt course IMO
South Yarra GC - I feel like the sum is greater than the parts on this one, a very solid course all around but I can't seem to pick out any amazing holes. Maybe I'm missing the boat here because it seems to have a pretty strong rep from what I've read/seen.
Royal Melb. (Composite) - I found it to be easier than expected but I'm happy this consensus top 10 RCR is finally included in the game after that terrible version we had for years. Great job on the atmosphere too, I felt like I was at the President's Cup.
Pennisula Kingswood - Very pretty. I go pretty low here but that's to be expected on an RCR.
Victoria Golf Club - A classy RCR. I like how it opens on a very generous drive-able par 4 which puts you in the mood for your 62 you're gonna shoot.
Burly Gallop - I like the subtle use of rock work which makes it stand out in this category. A good challenge too.
Mornington Downs (Tour) - Solid all around if a little on the easy side.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:13:41 GMT -5
COUNTRYSIDE
A somewhat vague category. Not links but not in a forest. Might have some water, might not. Just plot some holes in a wide open space and use the land the best you can.
Quincy Downs - Class and Prestige is how I feel when I play this. Love the hole designs and it's tougher than it looks, especially those greens.
Black Salt Valley - I've never shot lower than 68 on this course. It gets easier every time I play it, but you miss your landing spot on those greens and you're effed. Tee to green it plays really challenging too. Beautiful and a classic track.
Merion GC (Lidar) - A lot of hole variety and one of my favorite RCRs hands down, not as hard as Oakmont but the better Pennsylvania course I think.
Sussex Downs - A fun and quirky course, reminds me of St. Edonoc.
Crystal Downs (L) - Stay below the damn hole is all I can say. And hit the fairways. I have gone long over the pin, putted off the green, chipped up to the hole and watched it roll back down past me leaving me with an even longer chip, numerous times on this gem. I challenge anyone to break par on maxed out settings here.
The OG Club - Some very unique holes and I love the setting.
Blue River Dunes - I loved the colour palette of this and the split fairways giving you options on some of the holes.
Oakmont CC Lidar - This one I always put the green speed to VF to get that authentic feel. Most of the greens slope away from you on the approach which is unique. I can see how this would give the pros fits, especially in high winds.
Riverhead Hollow - I love the routing here with the Friars Head dunes style holes, the more wide open holes and some nice lake areas. Really fun track.
Tobacco Road - This would be a blast to play IRL but I probably wouldn't break 100 with those crazy contours
Conservatory Club West Major - I know it finished fourth in its Major Contest and Susquehannock won, but I think this course is better. Probably more experience with the designer and an overall stronger field the following year was the reason. This course is a beast. Dirty, dirty pins. That long par 3 over water with the 3 or 4 bunkers past the green staring at you is just filthy.
Hoback Range Sports Club - Very relaxing course, and one of the best stream/rivers I've seen in this game.
Hackamore Field Club - The one road hole is great and I like the purple grasses, very chilled.
Montauk Field Club - I love the contrasting colours and another banger from this designer.
Real Club de Mallorca - I think he nailed the Spain vibe in spades. A pretty good challenge too.
Sagaponack Golf Club - The holes with the OOB fence are great and I feel like I really have to think my way around this course. The one long par 3 is always extremely laggy for me unfortunately. So I just shank my 4 iron, take my bogey and move on.
Ballyhoo Park - The heavy bushes bordering every hole and the barranca are nice touches, a very solid course all around.
Wingspread Prairie Club - The best prairie looking environment and some fun well designed holes. I wish the in game Sand Hills version looked as good as this.
Umpqua National - I think this deserved higher than 8th at NT 22 but hey to each their own. I think its a good challenge and really cool setting.
Chiang Mai - Black - Must be a little hard to grow that nice grass on such a rocky landscape but hey we'll go with it haha. Fun challenging track.
Barton Hills - I keep looking for a scoring opportunity...still haven't found one.
Uinta Meadows - The hole-by-hole Youtube video is hilarious and the course plays pretty chilled in a very unique environment. I am surprised it didn't make top 10 in NT 22.
Melrose G.C. (Event) - A classic style course that has some nicely designed holes incorporating the stream.
Austin Country Club (L) - Some fun drives and approaches navigating the OOB areas, a little on the the easy side.
Susquehannock GC (Major) - This course is a tough challenge especially the pins cause they are hard to get to, but I really wasn't diggin on the colour palette. I would be curious to see people's opinions on how it would rank in the more recent contests.
Shakopee Creek - Cool take on a real piece of land that is developing a course in the future.
Prairie Dunes CC - I just recently found this old Perry Maxwell Kansas gem after trying a few years ago to find a good version and couldn't. Some really nice greens. Doesn't compare to the real life footage but not the designers fault and probably not a fair comparison.
Blind Raddit Golf Club - Some really nice rugged bunker work and good hole designs.
Trinity Forest Golf Club - A wide open Coore/Crenshaw design in the Texas countryside. Nice overall course.
Black Lava Cove - Very unique but maybe lacking a little in strategy.
National Golf Links of America - This is another RCR that underwhelmed me and I don't quite understand its high American ranking. Tradition I guess. I can see the strategic values but i felt it to be really easy (EDIT found better version and moved to Templates)
The Dunes at Lake Marie - A Nice chilled solid all around course.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 3:15:49 GMT -5
BRITISH HEATHLAND
Old Wickham Heath - A worthy champion of its contest. Very cool bunker style and overall hole design. The purple flowers are very visually appealing.
Shoreditch Common GC - Bearded Bunkers! Fun fairway slopes. I keep going back and forth between putting this 1, 2 or 3.
Saxondale - Great hole designs, one of the best in this style for sure.
Sunningdale-(Old) - Tough for me to decide which is better between the Old and New. I think the Old plays a little harder and the New has slightly better visuals. Both amazing settings and the real life pictures on their website look phenomenal.
Sunningdale New (L) - Same designer (in-game) as Old but you can tell he got better with his skills.
St. George's Hill Red Blue (L) - A little more hilly than the other real heathland courses. Great environment and some tricky holes.
West Hill Golf Club 2K21 - Don't let the short yardage fool you, this course has some teeth. With only two par 5s and some tough par 3s, there are fewer scoring opportunities. Take a short driver and give this quirky layout a play.
Dartmoor Downs - A rugged interpretation in a more open setting, really nice bunker work IMO.
DESERT
When done well this can turn out really good but I'm generally not a huge Steppe fan.
Taliesan Golf Club - I think it's the best desert style course in the game, at least that I have played. The elevation is superbly utilized, and I like the feeling of seclusion when playing the holes.
Kukimbia kwa Fisi - The best African style course in game and some very clever hole designs, really fun course.
Deschutes River Club - Very cool wooden fences in the bunkers. I purposely chipped right up to one to mess around, then blasted driver backwards off it lol. But a very cool unique design.
God Ra - This course is quickly becoming one of my favorites. Very cool doglegs and perched greens and some massive blow out bunkers
Ash Meadows, Nevada - Pretty good replay value, my 3rd favorite from National Treasure 22.
Sandy Boots - Really nice planting and some great drivable par 4s.
Old Sunset Field - Cool, unique setting and good strategy and use of the ground game.
Remanent 1824 - I feel the ground game is slightly lacking but a very unique environment.
Spitting Llama - Cool routing through the valley and fun trying to navigate the bunkers and rocks throughout.
BIG MUFF - The name alone deserves a spot on the list but in all honesty it's a fun course.
Mineral Ridge (Tour) - The best "pure green grass contrasting with white sand bunkers in the desert" course for me.
TROPICAL
I generally don't go searching for Tropical courses as they aren't really my style but these ones I like
Kaiuma Bay - I still cannot figure out the exact landing spot and execute that drivable par 4 4th. Nice clubhouse perched up on the waterfall. Pretty fun layout in the best tropical setting.
Hon Cau Bay - Pretty fun shots and nice views, would be a pain in the ass to maintain though lol
Seminole Golf Club - Really well done RCR, if you watch the Golf Digest Hole by Hole and then play this, its very accurate. She has a reputation for tough greens to hold IRL but I always score really well here. But that's just probably the game.
Kaho'olawe Golf Club - Fun course with some nice views
Evangelist Golf Club - I like it better than Sawgrass and the swampy pine straw look is cool.
Kapalua Plantation - Fun course in high winds with the elevation and contours.
TEMPLATE
After initially hating the look of this style of course, I have come to appreciate them for what they are...excellent hole designs. I have done a little studying and they are really starting to grow on me. Put me in the camp that loves the Biarritz, I think it's a really fun hole and a great test of distance control. The McDonald/Raynor category.
National Golf Links of America (L) - This version is much better than the first one I played a few years ago. A multitude of options on every hole and tremendous variety with the routing. Now I understand why it's ranked top 5 in America.
LIDO - A lot of width and options off the tee in an amazing setting. I love the punchbowl green. I'd be curious to see where this would rank in real life if it still existed.
Sleepy Hollow CC Lidar - Some great cross course views and a little more elevation on this piece of land than the others in this game make it interesting.
Springbrook CC (TOUR) - Beautiful environment and overall sculpting. The par 5 with the biarritz approach on the back nine is awesome as well as the par 4 with the stream left, on the front nine.
Shawnee Run Golf Club - A cool fictional renovation of Camargo Club in Ohio, the fall setting is a nice touch to.
Fairyland GC - Tour - A lot of strategy, options and replay value.
Raynor Ridge CC - Great use of the OB and some excellent risk/reward options throughout.
Ketchaboneck Club - I get NGLA vibes here but it has its own unique spin on it, nice interpretation of Long Island.
TQCT Yale GC Lidar - Might be the wildest Biarritz I've seen in this game.
Glen Ellyn GC - A nice nod to Chicago GC but its own creation, great views of downtown and the wild grasses.
Fishers Island - No disrespect to the designer (in-game) as he nailed it here, I just can't really distinguish many holes from each other. Really easy course at least on this game and maybe it's a little overrated IRL.
Old Macdonald (L) - A cool nod to the past with the old school templates. Some really big greens and worth a few plays.
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Post by grovey31 on Aug 19, 2022 14:32:14 GMT -5
Thanks for posting, very interesting list to check out. Seeing this type of list, one with a few sentences about your view of each course, is always better than just the names. However, I wanted to address your thoughts on a few top ranked IRL courses to offer a different perspective on a few things regarding this game vs. real golf. Also, this is by no means me arguing with you or me saying you are wrong. I simply wanted to offer up a different perspective on the LIDAR/RCR courses in game.
Fishers Island, Shinnecock, Sand Hills, National Golf Links – only playing these LIDAR/RCR courses in game will never do them justice. In real life, you get to stand on the ground, walk the fairways, and see everything in 360 degrees at eye level. You get the experience from actually being there. Since the game doesn’t let you do any of that, a designer needs to create it artificially and from a different perspective. So what you are experiencing in 2D is equal to what you would experience in 3D if you were walking and seeing the course IRL. The scale, nuance, flow, undulations, and physical place are lost in a video game no matter what but it’s what a real life experience has in abundance. It’s what sticks with you. It’s also why mind blowing courses like Fishers Island and Sand Hills fall flat in game as it’s due to environment and planting limitations and no "sense of place". Nature will always be more creative and unique and random and beautiful than a human mind, let alone a game.
Keep in mind too that this game is extremely easy. The distance you can hit drives renders some real life, highly ranked courses obsolete, Fishers Island being case in point. Golf is a game of misses and recovery and that’s where strategy really shines through so by hitting 300+ yard drives down the middle and then hitting a pitch shot into the green, it takes away so much of the variety and nuance of playing real golf. The type of golf that enhances the quality of a golf course and places it so highly in real life rankings. If I were to make any suggestion it would be to play a couple real courses with more difficult swing settings and hit some bad shots haha It opens up more strategy and variety and I think it will make some of those courses that you were indifferent about or thought were too easy feel a bit better than your first experience.
Also, I was at the US Open at Shinnecock and it absolutely blew me away. The scale and flow and variety of the land and holes laid out on them is why it’s so highly ranked. In my opinion, they should have the US Open there every single year, it’s that good. It’s deserves every bit of its status.
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Post by b101 on Aug 19, 2022 14:44:15 GMT -5
Came across this earlier and love the detail you've gone into having played so many courses. That said, I agree with everything grovey says above. We simply can't use the same scale for fictional and RCRs. The best fictional courses we've created in game would be horrific to play in real life, as we have to really exaggerate the strategy and greens, whilst many of the stunning real life courses just don't come across well in game and need another 1000 yards adding as well as greens ramped up to 20. No pro can carry 295 dead centre of the fairway every time in the way the game lets you, they don't have scout cameras nor green grids and can't play for absolute perfect distances (or have a fully lofted splash shot zip back with backspin...) - lots of reasons why some of those courses don't play so well in game.
Edit: I guess to make the point another way. I brought in the Burnham and Berrow Lidar data (my home course) and the really sloped greens on there still barely registered as orange at 187s... The game is really good, but it just doesn't do the green surfaces justice.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 17:19:41 GMT -5
grovey31
I totally agree with how the RL courses translate to this game. There are serious limitations with the designer. Based on the theme, you get the same background views of mountains or desert badlands etc.
One perfect example for me is the best course in my area, Dakota Dunes Golf Links. When you play it in RL and walk those hilly fairways beside the huge dunes covered in the native prairie grasses, it's thrilling. There is a version in this game called Dakota Dunes Whitecap, SK I believe. The guy did a pretty good job recreating the holes and some of the off course features. But when you play it, it just feels the same as any other countryside course in the game. And its super easy.
The designer doesn't have the draw distances, there aren't enough variations in planting and it will never capture the feel of actually walking the hallowed fairways of those legendary courses for sure.
Compared to the user created courses, an RCR will rarely hold up. They are almost always easier with a few exceptions.
I absolutely agree with the game being incredibly easy. It's still the most realistic "Golf Sim" currently out there though. But pretty much anyone who plays it is as good as Tiger or Jack or Hogan in their heyday. Like I said in the original post, I get up and down about 75% or the time which is ludicrous. The chipping is really easy. I literally chip in at least once almost every round. Sometimes I almost wish I don't land on the green, cause the chip is an easier shot. The splash shot is overpowered and I still can't really understand how he can take such a big swing and only get the ball to fly 15 yards and stop on a dime lol. And being in the bunkers isn't really a huge deal. The best scrambling % on the PGA Tour is about 65% each year and IRL mine is about 25% haha.
Ya Fishers Island and Shinnecock on this game are really easy compared to most of the user created courses, which need to be a little on the extreme side so the Tour guys don't shoot 59 every round. The course record at Fisher is Claude Harmon's 63 which is amazing considering the amount of water and wind on that course. I can easily post that. At Shinnecock, Retief Goosen shot only four under, over four days of extreme US Open conditions in 2004. Playing a round on that exclusive private island at Fishers and taking in the views would no doubt be incredible. Petty did a great job on the RCR, but ya designer limitations. Challenge accepted though, I will bump up the difficulty and play on max conditions and get back to you with a score.
Very cool you saw Shinnecock. From photos and videos it does really look amazing. It's my favorite course on the rotation to.
I wish Pine Valley would host the US Open one year. It would be good to see how the best pros fair. But it's so dense and secluded that there is no room for fans and TV equipment etc. The covid year would have been a good year for it.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2022 17:23:32 GMT -5
b101
Ya I've definitely played my fair share of courses. Probably 75 to 100 more than the ones I listed. I've played your whole portfolio numerous times and they are all really fun and unique. I've been following your Designer Profile Youtube series, and found some more that I need to try out.
I somewhat disagree with how they would relate to real life though. Sure, absolutely some of them in their current state would be way too hard for the general public or members. The greens would have to be toned down significantly, a lot of bunkers removed or minimized, fairways widened and holes would need to be shortened.
But the overall setting and hole designs would hold up and at least compete with the best real courses I think. A lot of you guys take inspiration from real holes with the templates and such. And the beauty of the designer is you can create everything from scratch. You can take liberties with how the plot works. Courses like NGLA and Sand Hills were truly routed with what they had to work with. NGLA being built in 1909 and still ranking so high is an obvious credit to C.B. Macdonald.
But I mean could you imagine playing Lost Preserve or Quincy Downs, or Hoback Range?? I think they would be American classics. But then you play a course like Hallstatt North and people would lose 15 balls a round. Black Salt Valley even with seriously toned down greens, would get terrible reviews. No one would break 80.
Have any of you guys thought about going into course architecture in real life? You seem to have a knack for it.
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Post by yeltzman on Aug 20, 2022 5:40:50 GMT -5
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Post by b101 on Aug 20, 2022 6:11:33 GMT -5
I am not doubting what you say because its your home course but it was the hardest latest lidar data to import into the game but i feel comparing the pics Burnham and berrow put out the details came out fine on my version plenty of Red on 187 on the iconic 9th green designed by mackenzie. PS i have designed the course with 4 pins and its playable with the latest changes if you want the course file just send me a message because due to the size of the file and time struggling to get it finished. Interesting. The lidar was a pain to bring in, so I wonder whether that was the issue. Definitely looks a lot better in those pictures than what I had! Great to see. Likewise, not much time on my hands at the moment and I learned early on I have very little interest in actually releasing lidars other than just pulling them in to study - I am happy to leave the 'wait seven seconds per click' behind with my PS4 designing days. Really appreciate all of you guys who do have that patience! Shame that I absolutely hate the changes to 9
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