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Post by localbirder on Mar 1, 2021 19:48:17 GMT -5
Hi designers! New here and enjoying course design using LIDAR and Chad's Tool. I have a LOT to learn still but I'm enjoying building some of the courses I have maintained as a golf course superintendent in the past. Nothing published yet, but a few in design being tweaked.
My thought is it might be useful to have a thread for evaluating the ability to actually maintain a feature IRL (in real life). I am surely not the only person here with a background in golf course maintenance and grow-in of new construction, but after seeing some in-game features and a few conversations around golf course maintenance, I thought I'd give it a go and offer some advice if it is welcomed.
So, have you got a screen capture of a feature you are curious about whether it is maintainable? Throw it into this thread and let's get some feedback on it from all those here who have maintained golf courses with everything from flymowers, stringtrimmers, machetes, drywall knives, and any other tool you can or can't yet, imagine.
Glad to be here and hoping to learn and share what I know and learn something from all of you.
Cheers!
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Post by Q on Mar 1, 2021 22:04:48 GMT -5
Hi designers! New here and enjoying course design using LIDAR and Chad's Tool. I have a LOT to learn still but I'm enjoying building some of the courses I have maintained as a golf course superintendent in the past. Nothing published yet, but a few in design being tweaked. My thought is it might be useful to have a thread for evaluating the ability to actually maintain a feature IRL (in real life). I am surely not the only person here with a background in golf course maintenance and grow-in of new construction, but after seeing some in-game features and a few conversations around golf course maintenance, I thought I'd give it a go and offer some advice if it is welcomed. So, have you got a screen capture of a feature you are curious about whether it is maintainable? Throw it into this thread and let's get some feedback on it from all those here who have maintained golf courses with everything from flymowers, stringtrimmers, machetes, drywall knives, and any other tool you can or can't yet, imagine. Glad to be here and hoping to learn and share what I know and learn something from all of you. Cheers! Considering the amount of IRL courses that flood and have features that frankly aren't maintainable either or have been poorly maintained ( a course I used to play at regularly would lose its back 9 to marsh every winter), I wonder if it would be better to point out IRL course designs that shouldn't be copied!
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Post by b101 on Mar 2, 2021 3:38:12 GMT -5
It’s interesting how these things evolve. I used to view puddles on greens as a complete no, but pulling in numerous great courses in lidar shows that many of them: Pacific Dunes, NGLA, Burnham, Cape Arundel, Castle Stuart amongst others would exhibit puddles and be castigated by some here.
It’s also made me realise that what I sometimes consider ‘heavy handed sculpting’ could actually be completely playable - the 3rd and 4th at Old Macdonald are great studies here.
Guess the point is that realism really depends on a lot of things and sometimes the rules we have defined aren’t actually great rules. Generally, we shouldn’t have greens that puddle or wild fairway sculpting and they are good guidelines that should only be gone against with care and experience (and most newer designers won’t get right), but that doesn’t make every instance of those things wrong.
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theboldb
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
Tour: Beer League/TST
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Post by theboldb on Mar 2, 2021 3:48:51 GMT -5
As far as I can tell, some features such as pooling on greens was a deliberate decision on older courses to keep the grass watered. Modern construction methods are different and I'm assuming they require different maintenance. A lot of the older courses seem to break all the accepted modern conventions, like hidden bunkers, smooth fairways etc.
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Post by b101 on Mar 2, 2021 4:09:00 GMT -5
Mostly to do with types of turf tbh. Given sandy soil i.e. links terrain, you can build greens that are impossible to maintain elsewhere, as water will absorb more readily. There’s a great Fried Egg podcast with Tom Doak where he talks about how many interesting greens he could build at Ballyneal (I think) because of the natural drainage of the soil.
Give me a parkland course that puddles and I’ll have a very different reaction to a links that does.
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Post by cd06 on Mar 2, 2021 4:39:22 GMT -5
Not fully related, but this bunker on St-rm K-ng (top right) definitely couldn't be raked by anyone.
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Post by localbirder on Mar 2, 2021 8:38:46 GMT -5
Not fully related, but this bunker on St-rm K-ng (top right) definitely couldn't be raked by anyone. LOL! Do you mean you can't drive a machine into it? Because any bunker can be raked if it can be walked into, but raking by hand is an expensive practice. Or maybe it is too steep? I didn't look in game for this. What hole is it?
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Post by cd06 on Mar 2, 2021 8:44:06 GMT -5
Not fully related, but this bunker on St-rm K-ng (top right) definitely couldn't be raked by anyone. LOL! Do you mean you can't drive a machine into it? Because any bunker can be raked if it can be walked into, but raking by hand is an expensive practice. Or maybe it is too steep? I didn't look in game for this. What hole is it? You cannot walk into it IRL. Worst thing is, this guy tries to make realistic courses. Same course has a blind 270 yard par three over water to a tiny green. Too steep and it is hole 16 that the picture stems from. Full name is Storm King - play it if you need to know what not to try in golf course design on 2k21.
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Post by b101 on Mar 2, 2021 8:48:15 GMT -5
Ah, good old Stormy
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Post by cd06 on Mar 2, 2021 11:11:40 GMT -5
I would love to have the Storm King file if I had a PC - I'd like to see if I could actually make it, well, into a good golf course somehow.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Mar 2, 2021 21:03:37 GMT -5
I would like to see a more backwards approach to this. The more I study some of the great courses around the world, the more I see that really anything is possible. So it would be cool to see people with real world experience take a video game golf course and figure out how to maintain it. No budget of course, we're here to design the best course imaginable.
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Post by ddixjr509 on Mar 3, 2021 11:40:16 GMT -5
Mostly to do with types of turf tbh. Given sandy soil i.e. links terrain, you can build greens that are impossible to maintain elsewhere, as water will absorb more readily. There’s a great Fried Egg podcast with Tom Doak where he talks about how many interesting greens he could build at Ballyneal (I think) because of the natural drainage of the soil. Give me a parkland course that puddles and I’ll have a very different reaction to a links that does. I'm a Commercial developer, and the Engineer I use is the same Engineer who did the infrastructure at Streamsong. I've had a few conversations with him about the puddling on the green notion- he's echoed the turf and soil comment, with the local very very fine sand and the use of exfiltration trench in some areas. All my designs now incorporate importing local fine sand and underground drainage for the greens.
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Post by Q on Mar 3, 2021 12:13:08 GMT -5
. All my designs now incorporate importing local fine sand and underground drainage for the greens. None of my designs ever experience rain because rain causes lag
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