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Post by robn on Feb 27, 2021 5:40:50 GMT -5
Heisenberg Thanks for dropping in man. I wont say any more on the piece you quoted of mine. Other than to say, it can (and no doubt will) be interpreted in different ways. Which is fine, but I dont tend to be inclined to write something like that unless I feel I have good reason to. But enough of that.... As for your thoughts on the course. Firstly, hindsight on my part is not required. I'm very receptive to criticism as I think one or two can attest to. I certainly dont think the sun shines out of the arse of my creations, so as such, I'm not the least bit sensitive about them. On top of that, it's only my 2nd publish (strictly speaking 3rd, but the first was utter garbage which I knew all along), so I've a fair idea of it's limitations, but perhaps not the full picture. Things you liked: 1. I shifted the orientation at some point during the design so the light was mostly coming across the plot instead of no.1 playing directly into it. Worked much better I thought, consistency wise and therefore overall. 2. Rest assured I'll be moving away from stock shapes in future! (which appear a handful of times here). 3. Yeah, I was always kinda happy with 6. It's sneaky. Could it be better, of course. 4. You must have skipped the (intentionally blind) 12th then! 5. Fair point. It was OK, did the job but coulda been better. 6. Well, that's good I guess! I'm perfectly aware I'm a bit vague about the 'story' of the course. It's just my style. People can make up their own minds, that is if they give a hoot in the first place haha. And the other stuff... 1. Yep. Too true man. It's either all in or not at all. In the end I probably should have just taken out what I had there. In isolation probably not too bad.....on the whole, nah. 2. Bang on. Something I really need to work on. I decided the best thing to do for now was to at least ensure it had a nice consistent look planting-wise, rather than trying stuff that I'm not good at. 3. Totally fair. Not much more to be said! 4. Yes, 18 probably could of done with a bit more attention. It plays fine and how I wanted it to and I do like the green here. I think I got lazy with the fairway here. Hallz (above) didn't like it either. Shoulda listened to him more on this one! Yeah, I'm still very slow with things. As such, I spent a long time on this (certainly felt like it anyway). I could have kept going for sure and finished with something slightly/much better....but in the end I figured, hey it's only my 2nd course so no need to go too cray cray here. Get it out there and get that precious feedback. Thanks for taking the time to give it a play and sharing your thoughts on it. Much obliged.
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Post by CLEANboxhero on Feb 27, 2021 17:03:51 GMT -5
Back 9 bossman
10 - maybe dip the fairway so a touch more shows from the tee. I like the hole layout. Gonna find out if I can cover the tress lol. Liked the green and the planting 11 - excellent look from tee. FW bunkers seemed slightly better and in turn, quite well sculpted. Absolutely F'ing loved the raised green. Really nice, good touch to have it run directly to heavy rough as well. Very fox chapel gc - esque. 12 - love the tee look as well, and it works bc you put the marker out there, I know the OGs want visibility, but I like the creativity. Only gripe is the very narrow landing area,. It it's a short par 4.. so yeah, make it tough. Liked the green sculpting 13 - planting is pretty well on point. Sort of jagged fairway splines. Liked the green alot 14 - just a good hole! 15 - only complaint is size of the green and the nipple pin was pretty tough when the 2 thoughts are married together. Didn't affect me though, as I'm the best out there 🤥 - still birdied. 16 -real good hole. Definitely getting some Seth Raynor vibes here. Maybe a little attention to the pond behind the green. Solid green and pin 17- maybe the best hole on the course appearance wise. Green was maybe a bit heavy in the sculpting department, but nothing unplayable 18. FW splines could flow better to the green . One of your best greens on the course tho (in terms of playability and slopes).
Solid course, gave her a 4 star. Nothing glaring. Just minor clean ups and spicing it up a little to attract the general population for the next course and I think you'll have a TW product. Also, referring to yourself continually in the 3rd person may help?? Idk
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Post by robn on Feb 27, 2021 17:26:13 GMT -5
Back 9 bossman 10 - maybe dip the fairway so a touch more shows from the tee. I like the hole layout. Gonna find out if I can cover the tress lol. Liked the green and the planting 11 - excellent look from tee. FW bunkers seemed slightly better and in turn, quite well sculpted. Absolutely F'ing loved the raised green. Really nice, good touch to have it run directly to heavy rough as well. Very fox chapel gc - esque. 12 - love the tee look as well, and it works bc you put the marker out there, I know the OGs want visibility, but I like the creativity. Only gripe is the very narrow landing area,. It it's a short par 4.. so yeah, make it tough. Liked the green sculpting 13 - planting is pretty well on point. Sort of jagged fairway splines. Liked the green alot 14 - just a good hole! 15 - only complaint is size of the green and the nipple pin was pretty tough when the 2 thoughts are married together. Didn't affect me though, as I'm the best out there 🤥 - still birdied. 16 -real good hole. Definitely getting some Seth Raynor vibes here. Maybe a little attention to the pond behind the green. Solid green and pin 17- maybe the best hole on the course appearance wise. Green was maybe a bit heavy in the sculpting department, but nothing unplayable 18. FW splines could flow better to the green . One of your best greens on the course tho (in terms of playability and slopes). Solid course, gave her a 4 star. Nothing glaring. Just minor clean ups and spicing it up a little to attract the general population for the next course and I think you'll have a TW product. Also, referring to yourself continually in the 3rd person may help?? Idk 4 stars? You miserable bastid! 😆 Nah, thanks a bunch for the play and your thoughts throughout. You went easy on it. The robn approves?
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Post by CLEANboxhero on Feb 27, 2021 17:32:57 GMT -5
Yeah.. yeah, I like that - it was a first effort. If the robn keeps talking like that, he may be designer of the year.
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Post by robn on Feb 27, 2021 17:58:04 GMT -5
The robn couldn't give a hoot about the masses. His goal is simple. To make one course he can be truly proud of. With a little help from the good guys, he might achieve that.
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Post by b101 on Mar 2, 2021 8:45:39 GMT -5
Been meaning to get to this for a while. I liked the vibe of the course and what you wanted it to be aesthetically. I don't think you always hit the mark and I hope the below can help with that. I think you said this was a 2nd course? This feels exactly like what I'd expect from that in that there are some big things that you can work on and easily make the next course much better bearing just a few things in mind. I started writing hole by hole notes but quickly realised categorising them would be easier. By nature of your request, there'll be more 'to work on's than there are 'this was great'. In actual fact, I think the biggest strength (variety of ideas) actually ends up being a weakness because it's TOO varied (see point one, below).
1) Consistency: have a vision and stick to that. This comes in lots of forms: planting (sometimes too close (e.g. 5, 6), sometimes too far away (e.g. 1). I thought 8 was perfect in terms of spacing - try to replicate that sort of balance between planted and not); Bunkering style - e.g. 4 very different to 3; green slopes: 4 a very wild green compared to the others and green sizes; compare 16 to 18 for example. With scaling, the measure tool is great at first. Make your greens 25x35 yards as a rule of thumb and you will learn based on a framework from there.
2) Placement of hazards: Try to place your hazards and then work fairways around them so that the hole makes sense rather than fairway THEN hazard. 1 was a great example - what are the bunkers protecting? Work out where people want to hit and then defend that, fairly.
3) Fairness/Forced difficulty - 3rd tee shot was very forced - the middle of the fairway is completely taken out by the zigzag nature. Try to bend fw around the bunkers a bit more naturally. Feels like the angles (if you play left you can reach in 2 vs if you go right, you can't) are a bit forced. Try to give a bit more middle ground where it becomes 'the further left you go, the better your shot in' rather than 'you can or you can't'. I also felt every par three could have used about ten yards more fairway in front to run the ball on, particularly the 7th, whilst a few holes (e.g. 15) try too hard to protect par and make a great shot more luck than judgement. Only one hole that really didn't work: 12 is a hard no. Blind tee shot to that fairway going super narrow just doesn't work, I'm afraid. Ironically, one of the very few fairways I hit in the 14mph winds...
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In terms of quick fixes, I'd look at the following:
1) I really liked the lake on 16 and something like that brought in earlier would have lifted the course. I liked the vibe, but in video game world, you'll want to break it up a bit. 2) Learn about templates and strategy. Learn to work holes around hazards to ensure variety and you'll find yourself forcing variety (like the blind tee shot, lions mouth par three etc) far less. I felt the course was varied, but the designs weren't cohesive - templates and strategy will help you achieve that.
The most important one: 3) Just keep designing. Try something different. We all go through these courses and might be good to know that my first contest course (my second ever course) was hammered for poor scaling and lack of consistency between hole ideas. I've not forgotten those pieces of feedback and now think they are probably the strongest part of my designs. Keep at it - nothing will make you better like more reps and taking feedback on board.
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Post by yeltzman on Mar 6, 2021 9:40:55 GMT -5
Only because you asked for it.
Please Note i don't scroll about the course looking for things i just play what's in front of me.
on my scoring system i gave it 72/100
Design 16-Enjoyment 19- realism 17-playability 20
Lost at least 5 points overall with the 12th hole was not keen, also on a couple of the holes when all the tees were together....Thought it was a very solid course overall maybe a few more tree combinations just to make it pop a little more i reckon. But overall style of course i really enjoy As long as it plays well all what concerns me really most important part to me.
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Post by robn on Mar 6, 2021 10:35:14 GMT -5
Only because you asked for it. Please Note i don't scroll about the course looking for things i just play what's in front of me. on my scoring system i gave it 72/100 Design 16-Enjoyment 19- realism 17-playability 20 Lost at least 5 points overall with the 12th hole was not keen, also on a couple of the holes when all the tees were together....Thought it was a very solid course overall maybe a few more tree combinations just to make it pop a little more i reckon. But overall style of course i really enjoy As long as it plays well all what concerns me really most important part to me. Great stuff, thanks a lot for that! 72 eh, wasn't expecting that. I like your scoring system haha! Yeah the 12th, I thought it would be more palatable with the generous(ish) fairway to hit with a 3i/hybrid with it being a shortish 4 and having the easiest green. People weren't digging it tho which is all good and duly noted.
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Post by yeltzman on Mar 6, 2021 10:57:27 GMT -5
Wouldn't take much notice of my scoring system i prefer just a golf course and how it plays and how i enjoy it,Plenty here its all about the fluff, planting and outside stuff were i take no notice of it, It's why you shouldn't take much notice of reviews or people's course lists everybody's views are different and there is something for everyone if you look for it Design for yourself and it others enjoy just a bonus.
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