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Post by sirish19 on Oct 24, 2020 18:04:41 GMT -5
Just published Reverend green To 2k21. I think it has a lot of commonality with the Hirono Aesthetic. See hole 1,2,3,4 for bunker style and use of naturalized water hazards.    |
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Post by sirish19 on Oct 24, 2020 18:07:19 GMT -5
Hi rjwils30, I had a chance to play Reverend Green and it was a fantastic course. Definitely gives me some good ideas on sculpting bunkers and planting.
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Post by sirish19 on Nov 3, 2020 4:40:40 GMT -5
Hi Guys, Quick update on the progress, I was able to purchase a yardage book for Hirono (also for Kasumigaseki Country Club where the Olympics will be played) so I am going to work on refining this a lot more. The LiDAR data that is available in Japan is not terribly accurate (at 5 M) so I thought I could use this to ensure that the greens are accurate. As you can see, this book does show me the slope of the greens and it gives values in slope degrees. Does anyone know how to easily convert this to inches in the designer? I am guessing that it is probably not that simple but thought I would throw that out in case there are any mathematicians out there.    |
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Post by sirish19 on Nov 3, 2020 5:09:12 GMT -5
The comments above are spot on, it's just something that massively detracts from the presentation. Here's some help with it; Start by using the measuring tool to mark where the green splines are located, you need to do this so you can place your fairway spline points on this exact location, this bit is pivotal to make this work, the fairway and green splines have to be in the exact same position. Then make sure both the fairway path and the green path are the same width, do this also with the secondary cut. Then smooth both surfaces and it should line up. also make sure the fairway splines gradually move off the green splines so you don't create a right angle as this causes bulges and is probably the reason your transitions are currently not looking right. if it's still squiggly after smoothing both paths, you may need to add more spline points on both green and fairway and also pinch the spline points in just before the green, I've tried to use photos to show this;    If you are doing LiDAR only courses which it seems from your previous releases, there's a hack in OSM to make your life easier; As you approach the green with your fairway spline, come in at a gradual angle and then merge the fairway points exactly to the green points, this will do the hard work for you and all you then have to do in the designer is match path widths;  Hi paddyjk19, I am trying to work on the fairway to green transitions a bit and I am still struggling with this a bit as the fairway still seems to be spilling out a bit over the green even if I line up the spline points. You mentioned above that you want to make sure that the fairway path and the green path are the same width and also that the secondary cut is the same width for both. Just to confirm, when I am creating a LiDAR course and splining greens and fairways from OSM, do I need to change anything in the path width for those? Should the path width for the greens and fairways be adjusted to be the same? I have never really paid that much attention to the path widths and just left at the default but now I am starting to wonder. It looks like by default, the path for greens is set to narrow at 1.7 and the secondary width is set to 2.5. For Fairways, the default path width is set to Narrow at 2.9 and the secondary width is set to 5.0. Is there a standard recommendation for each of these? |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 3, 2020 8:21:40 GMT -5
Hi Guys, Quick update on the progress, I was able to purchase a yardage book for Hirono (also for Kasumigaseki Country Club where the Olympics will be played) so I am going to work on refining this a lot more. The LiDAR data that is available in Japan is not terribly accurate (at 5 M) so I thought I could use this to ensure that the greens are accurate. As you can see, this book does show me the slope of the greens and it gives values in slope degrees. Does anyone know how to easily convert this to inches in the designer? I am guessing that it is probably not that simple but thought I would throw that out in case there are any mathematicians out there. You can change to metric on the settings menu under HUD and Display |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 3, 2020 8:25:20 GMT -5
The comments above are spot on, it's just something that massively detracts from the presentation. Here's some help with it; Start by using the measuring tool to mark where the green splines are located, you need to do this so you can place your fairway spline points on this exact location, this bit is pivotal to make this work, the fairway and green splines have to be in the exact same position. Then make sure both the fairway path and the green path are the same width, do this also with the secondary cut. Then smooth both surfaces and it should line up. also make sure the fairway splines gradually move off the green splines so you don't create a right angle as this causes bulges and is probably the reason your transitions are currently not looking right. if it's still squiggly after smoothing both paths, you may need to add more spline points on both green and fairway and also pinch the spline points in just before the green, I've tried to use photos to show this; If you are doing LiDAR only courses which it seems from your previous releases, there's a hack in OSM to make your life easier; As you approach the green with your fairway spline, come in at a gradual angle and then merge the fairway points exactly to the green points, this will do the hard work for you and all you then have to do in the designer is match path widths; Hi paddyjk19, I am trying to work on the fairway to green transitions a bit and I am still struggling with this a bit as the fairway still seems to be spilling out a bit over the green even if I line up the spline points. You mentioned above that you want to make sure that the fairway path and the green path are the same width and also that the secondary cut is the same width for both. Just to confirm, when I am creating a LiDAR course and splining greens and fairways from OSM, do I need to change anything in the path width for those? Should the path width for the greens and fairways be adjusted to be the same? I have never really paid that much attention to the path widths and just left at the default but now I am starting to wonder. It looks like by default, the path for greens is set to narrow at 1.7 and the secondary width is set to 2.5. For Fairways, the default path width is set to Narrow at 2.9 and the secondary width is set to 5.0. Is there a standard recommendation for each of these? On OSM I just use the same points for fairway And green then in the designer I just match the path widths at 2.0 and it’ll line up perfectly after you smooth both paths. If you are trying to match up points in the designer I’d say you probably want to make sure every spline point on the green has a fairway spline point over it exactly and zoom in really close to do this |
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Post by sirish19 on Nov 8, 2020 6:23:38 GMT -5
On OSM I just use the same points for fairway And green then in the designer I just match the path widths at 2.0 and it’ll line up perfectly after you smooth both paths. If you are trying to match up points in the designer I’d say you probably want to make sure every spline point on the green has a fairway spline point over it exactly and zoom in really close to do this Thanks paddyjk19. Probably a very fundamental question on this, but is there a standard path width for fairways & greens, a standard path width for secondary surfaces for fairways and greens and is there a standard secondary surface for fairways and greens? As a default, at least it looks like what gets created when I create a LiDAR course using Chad's Tool is this: FairwaysPath width - 3.0 yards Secondary Surface - Rough Secondary Width - 5.0 GreensPath Width - 1.7 yards Secondary Surface - Fairway Secondary Width - 2.5 yards When I try to change the path width for either of these, it seems to change the size of the fairway or green so I don't think I want to do that since I am splining from OSM. So I think you are recommending that the secondary width for both fairways and greens should be the same, is that correct? Is there an ideal secondary width? Also, I took your recommendation and aligned the fairway point for every green point and, sure enough, the transitions look much better that way. However, I do seem to be getting a lot of layers of surface around the green now. For example, it seems to go green, green fringe, fairway (since the fairway is outlining the green now), rough (which is the secondary surface for the fairway), and then finally, heavy rough. Would it be better to change the secondary surface somewhere to avoid this kind of issue? Also, a related question, when splining on OSM, do you recommend always matching up the fairway splines to the green splines so that there is a layer of fairway that surrounds the green or do you just recommend blending the first few splines so that there is a clean transition? How about for courses where the fairway clearly surrounds the green but it is a bit disproportionate? Would you recommend splining the fairway around the green exactly as it is on OSM? I was working on splining Kasumigaseki Country Club West Course (where the Olympics will be played next year) and on this course, the fairway flares out around the green (and on some holes, disproportionately so. I went around and splined that out just as it is on OSM but it doesn't seem as clean (especially in some cases where there are bunkers right next to the green and then the secondary surface (the rough) encroaches into the bunker. What are your recommendations for this kind of situation? |
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Post by sirish19 on Nov 8, 2020 6:35:49 GMT -5
On OSM I just use the same points for fairway And green then in the designer I just match the path widths at 2.0 and it’ll line up perfectly after you smooth both paths. If you are trying to match up points in the designer I’d say you probably want to make sure every spline point on the green has a fairway spline point over it exactly and zoom in really close to do this Thanks paddyjk19. Probably a very fundamental question on this, but is there a standard path width for fairways & greens, a standard path width for secondary surfaces for fairways and greens and is there a standard secondary surface for fairways and greens? As a default, at least it looks like what gets created when I create a LiDAR course using Chad's Tool is this: FairwaysPath width - 3.0 yards Secondary Surface - Rough Secondary Width - 5.0 GreensPath Width - 1.7 yards Secondary Surface - Fairway Secondary Width - 2.5 yards When I try to change the path width for either of these, it seems to change the size of the fairway or green so I don't think I want to do that since I am splining from OSM. So I think you are recommending that the secondary width for both fairways and greens should be the same, is that correct? Is there an ideal secondary width? Also, I took your recommendation and aligned the fairway point for every green point and, sure enough, the transitions look much better that way. However, I do seem to be getting a lot of layers of surface around the green now. For example, it seems to go green, green fringe, fairway (since the fairway is outlining the green now), rough (which is the secondary surface for the fairway), and then finally, heavy rough. Would it be better to change the secondary surface somewhere to avoid this kind of issue? Also, a related question, when splining on OSM, do you recommend always matching up the fairway splines to the green splines so that there is a layer of fairway that surrounds the green or do you just recommend blending the first few splines so that there is a clean transition? How about for courses where the fairway clearly surrounds the green but it is a bit disproportionate? Would you recommend splining the fairway around the green exactly as it is on OSM? I was working on splining Kasumigaseki Country Club West Course (where the Olympics will be played next year) and on this course, the fairway flares out around the green (and on some holes, disproportionately so. I went around and splined that out just as it is on OSM but it doesn't seem as clean (especially in some cases where there are bunkers right next to the green and then the secondary surface (the rough) encroaches into the bunker. What are your recommendations for this kind of situation? Here is an example of what I mean. A picture of the actual course:  and here is what it looks like if I spline around the hole as on OSM (not the same hole) - as you can see the rough is encroaching into the bunker:  and here is how it looks when I line up the fairway splines with the green splines:  Thoughts? |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 8, 2020 8:04:17 GMT -5
On OSM I just use the same points for fairway And green then in the designer I just match the path widths at 2.0 and it’ll line up perfectly after you smooth both paths. If you are trying to match up points in the designer I’d say you probably want to make sure every spline point on the green has a fairway spline point over it exactly and zoom in really close to do this Thanks paddyjk19. Probably a very fundamental question on this, but is there a standard path width for fairways & greens, a standard path width for secondary surfaces for fairways and greens and is there a standard secondary surface for fairways and greens? As a default, at least it looks like what gets created when I create a LiDAR course using Chad's Tool is this: FairwaysPath width - 3.0 yards Secondary Surface - Rough Secondary Width - 5.0 GreensPath Width - 1.7 yards Secondary Surface - Fairway Secondary Width - 2.5 yards When I try to change the path width for either of these, it seems to change the size of the fairway or green so I don't think I want to do that since I am splining from OSM. So I think you are recommending that the secondary width for both fairways and greens should be the same, is that correct? Is there an ideal secondary width? Also, I took your recommendation and aligned the fairway point for every green point and, sure enough, the transitions look much better that way. However, I do seem to be getting a lot of layers of surface around the green now. For example, it seems to go green, green fringe, fairway (since the fairway is outlining the green now), rough (which is the secondary surface for the fairway), and then finally, heavy rough. Would it be better to change the secondary surface somewhere to avoid this kind of issue? Also, a related question, when splining on OSM, do you recommend always matching up the fairway splines to the green splines so that there is a layer of fairway that surrounds the green or do you just recommend blending the first few splines so that there is a clean transition? How about for courses where the fairway clearly surrounds the green but it is a bit disproportionate? Would you recommend splining the fairway around the green exactly as it is on OSM? I was working on splining Kasumigaseki Country Club West Course (where the Olympics will be played next year) and on this course, the fairway flares out around the green (and on some holes, disproportionately so. I went around and splined that out just as it is on OSM but it doesn't seem as clean (especially in some cases where there are bunkers right next to the green and then the secondary surface (the rough) encroaches into the bunker. What are your recommendations for this kind of situation? Yes, I expand the green to 2.0 and reduce the fairway to 2.0, it makes very little difference. I then set both secondary widths to 3.5. If you’re really worried about the green being 20cm bigger just make the fringe larger or map it smaller on OSM but in all honesty it’s so small a Change in size but makes the transitions work |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 8, 2020 8:04:55 GMT -5
On OSM I just use the same points for fairway And green then in the designer I just match the path widths at 2.0 and it’ll line up perfectly after you smooth both paths. If you are trying to match up points in the designer I’d say you probably want to make sure every spline point on the green has a fairway spline point over it exactly and zoom in really close to do this Thanks paddyjk19. Probably a very fundamental question on this, but is there a standard path width for fairways & greens, a standard path width for secondary surfaces for fairways and greens and is there a standard secondary surface for fairways and greens? As a default, at least it looks like what gets created when I create a LiDAR course using Chad's Tool is this: FairwaysPath width - 3.0 yards Secondary Surface - Rough Secondary Width - 5.0 GreensPath Width - 1.7 yards Secondary Surface - Fairway Secondary Width - 2.5 yards When I try to change the path width for either of these, it seems to change the size of the fairway or green so I don't think I want to do that since I am splining from OSM. So I think you are recommending that the secondary width for both fairways and greens should be the same, is that correct? Is there an ideal secondary width? Also, I took your recommendation and aligned the fairway point for every green point and, sure enough, the transitions look much better that way. However, I do seem to be getting a lot of layers of surface around the green now. For example, it seems to go green, green fringe, fairway (since the fairway is outlining the green now), rough (which is the secondary surface for the fairway), and then finally, heavy rough. Would it be better to change the secondary surface somewhere to avoid this kind of issue? Also, a related question, when splining on OSM, do you recommend always matching up the fairway splines to the green splines so that there is a layer of fairway that surrounds the green or do you just recommend blending the first few splines so that there is a clean transition? How about for courses where the fairway clearly surrounds the green but it is a bit disproportionate? Would you recommend splining the fairway around the green exactly as it is on OSM? I was working on splining Kasumigaseki Country Club West Course (where the Olympics will be played next year) and on this course, the fairway flares out around the green (and on some holes, disproportionately so. I went around and splined that out just as it is on OSM but it doesn't seem as clean (especially in some cases where there are bunkers right next to the green and then the secondary surface (the rough) encroaches into the bunker. What are your recommendations for this kind of situation? Also, set both secondary surfaces to light rough |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 8, 2020 8:06:59 GMT -5
Thanks paddyjk19. Probably a very fundamental question on this, but is there a standard path width for fairways & greens, a standard path width for secondary surfaces for fairways and greens and is there a standard secondary surface for fairways and greens? As a default, at least it looks like what gets created when I create a LiDAR course using Chad's Tool is this: FairwaysPath width - 3.0 yards Secondary Surface - Rough Secondary Width - 5.0 GreensPath Width - 1.7 yards Secondary Surface - Fairway Secondary Width - 2.5 yards When I try to change the path width for either of these, it seems to change the size of the fairway or green so I don't think I want to do that since I am splining from OSM. So I think you are recommending that the secondary width for both fairways and greens should be the same, is that correct? Is there an ideal secondary width? Also, I took your recommendation and aligned the fairway point for every green point and, sure enough, the transitions look much better that way. However, I do seem to be getting a lot of layers of surface around the green now. For example, it seems to go green, green fringe, fairway (since the fairway is outlining the green now), rough (which is the secondary surface for the fairway), and then finally, heavy rough. Would it be better to change the secondary surface somewhere to avoid this kind of issue? Also, a related question, when splining on OSM, do you recommend always matching up the fairway splines to the green splines so that there is a layer of fairway that surrounds the green or do you just recommend blending the first few splines so that there is a clean transition? How about for courses where the fairway clearly surrounds the green but it is a bit disproportionate? Would you recommend splining the fairway around the green exactly as it is on OSM? I was working on splining Kasumigaseki Country Club West Course (where the Olympics will be played next year) and on this course, the fairway flares out around the green (and on some holes, disproportionately so. I went around and splined that out just as it is on OSM but it doesn't seem as clean (especially in some cases where there are bunkers right next to the green and then the secondary surface (the rough) encroaches into the bunker. What are your recommendations for this kind of situation? Here is an example of what I mean. A picture of the actual course: and here is what it looks like if I spline around the hole as on OSM (not the same hole) - as you can see the rough is encroaching into the bunker: and here is how it looks when I line up the fairway splines with the green splines: Thoughts? The idea is that you have no fairway round the outside, just light rough. Set both fairway and green path to 2.0 and secondary surface both the light rough at 3.5. Make sure to smooth both paths |
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Post by sirish19 on Nov 8, 2020 22:21:06 GMT -5
and here is what it looks like if I spline around the hole as on OSM (not the same hole) - as you can see the rough is encroaching into the bunker: and here is how it looks when I line up the fairway splines with the green splines: Thoughts? The idea is that you have no fairway round the outside, just light rough. Set both fairway and green path to 2.0 and secondary surface both the light rough at 3.5. Make sure to smooth both paths Excellent, thank you very much for the advice. This seems to look much better. |
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jan 15, 2021 4:38:19 GMT -5
sirish19, how are you getting on with Hirono? Do you have images you can post?
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Post by sirish19 on Jan 16, 2021 22:24:57 GMT -5
sirish19 , how are you getting on with Hirono? Do you have images you can post? Hi, Still working on it. I was commissioned to build a couple of additional courses in the US and wanted to finish another Japanese course that I play at regularly so that I could have that for sim play. I am about halfway through reworking the splines of the greens. That is pretty tedious work....but I can definitely see the difference when splined correct. Will try to repost some new pics once I get the greens redone and the bunkers sculpted properly. |
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jan 17, 2021 1:14:27 GMT -5
Would you consider publishing a BETA version for others to comment before a final release? I like what rjwils30 had to say and the suggestion to look at the Reverand Green course. That certainly has a great aesthetic and if styled with a similar colour palette and bunkering Hirono would look fantastic and be one of the very best RCR courses. Happy to play test when you're ready!
2K21 needs some more good quality Asian courses.
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