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Post by coggin66 on Jun 8, 2021 0:47:23 GMT -5
The big question though, is the game playing easier than HB intended on PS4/5 or harder than HB intended on Xbox? Given they don't seem to care about cross-platform parity, I suspect they would say that the difficulty levels get harder on a particular platform and that there will be a difficulty level that suits your needs. They never said that Masters on one platform would be the same as Masters on another. It is only us TGCT junkies that want that to be the case. |
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Post by dansamp on Jun 8, 2021 6:41:23 GMT -5
The big question though, is the game playing easier than HB intended on PS4/5 or harder than HB intended on Xbox? Given they don't seem to care about cross-platform parity, I suspect they would say that the difficulty levels get harder on a particular platform and that there will be a difficulty level that suits your needs. They never said that Masters on one platform would be the same as Masters on another. It is only us TGCT junkies that want that to be the case. Yep agreed. Although I think it's pretty clear no matter what that it's playing harder than intended on XB. I mean, you can't play on Master on XB and hit a grey fast, perfect, and grey slow... so it's definitely more punitive than intended. |
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Post by Rosebowl88 on Jun 8, 2021 7:13:51 GMT -5
Pandora Singles society is up and running with LEGEND difficulty, swing timing off and a host of other options for making your playing life more enjoyable....go take a look!
There will be a tournament structure setup within the next few weeks if enough interest.
PANDORA SINGLES
XBOX ONLY
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Post by jp44 on Jun 8, 2021 9:20:32 GMT -5
The big question though, is the game playing easier than HB intended on PS4/5 or harder than HB intended on Xbox? My guess as to what happened in development is that it was being designed and tested on PC. This is slightly anecdotal but from what I have seen, there are clear polling points on PS and XB, and from what I can tell PC is nearly able to hit anywhere on the spectrum for tempo. Not 100% convinced on that but I think we've seen polling points clearly established on PS and XB. I can certainly say they weren't testing the game on XB on Masters lol. But would also have to think if they were designing and testing on PS they would notice the same anomalies as cseanny and others have found with calibrations, and generally fixed polling points. The tempo windows provided for Master on XB are just simply not attainable, so either they didn't test it or just thought no one would be playing on Master (or just wouldn't notice). Another thing would be the fact that as its not a cross platform game, what incentive would they have even as they are designing, to go above the expected amount of work to make it "level" across all platforms? Quite possible they just decided its beyond the scope of their ability to fix it, left it for us at TGC to pick apart. IMO if any of what I said above has any truth to it, then the recent patches are actually positive going forward, because they are becoming aware of the issues with the tempo spectrum. Perhaps they saw a fall off in the game and decided to go full blown beta mode to ensure they have all the kinks ironed out for the first Tiger iteration of the game. All speculation, just hoping for good things in the future. Can only go up from here lol. |
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Post by dansamp on Jun 8, 2021 9:37:03 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I did submit the following ticket on 2K Support (support.2k.com). Have had success with this in the past (XB putting glitch!), so wanted to start this process. The next step I'm sure is they will ask me for videos to confirm, so hopefully I can eventually put something together (or maybe use that handy word doc that jp44 put together)! If others want to start submitting tickets, this was the text I used: "The game on XB suffers from having limited polling points. What this means is as follows: - Swing outcomes are extremely limited, and all swings are rounded into a fixed number of outcomes. What this means is if you pay close attention to the swing tempo dial, you're only hitting around 5-7 spots on the dial (a few in the red fast + red slow areas, plus one in the perfect). If you play on PS4 or PC, or watch players on these consoles on Twitch, you're able to see what it looks like to be able to play the game as intended and have a much more variable swing. - The ultimate result is that on Master settings (or above) it's impossible to have a calibration set up where you can hit a grey slow, a perfect, or a grey fast. In fact, it is only on certain calibrations + club setups where you can even hit a perfect + a grey fast (or slow if you calibrate your perfect polling point to the left edge, for example). What this means is, the polling points are too spread out, so they're further apart than the bands for the perfect/grey fast/grey slow areas. So you either round to perfect (or wherever that polling point is calibrated to be, as it could even be a grey fast or a grey slow for some users based on their calibrations - yes, which means it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to hit a perfect), or your shot is in the red. - This makes the game extremely challenging, especially after the recent patches. Basically, on XB on Master, you either hit perfect, or you're hitting a red fast/slow (for the most part), which results in a terrible shot. - I bring up how this impacts players the most on Master because of the small tempo areas, but the same problems are prevalent on all the other difficulties. No matter what, you're glued to the same polling points. All your swing outcomes register into those same outcomes. I've done some testing to attempt figure this stuff out. The issue appears to stem from the XB controller's 124hz polling rate (vs. 250hz wired for PS4, 800hz wireless bluetooth for PS4/PS5, and variable polling rates up to 1000hz on PC). Unfortunately, I also used an adapter to use a PS4 DS4 controller on the XB, but the same problem still persisted - all my swings were getting rounded into the exact same polling points. This leads me to believe that there is something going on at the console level as well that impacts how swing outcomes are being registered by the game. Thanks for your time. Love the game, just trying to help make it better on XB!" Hopefully that gets the point across... |
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Post by jp44 on Jun 8, 2021 9:45:27 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I did submit the following ticket on 2K Support (support.2k.com). Have had success with this in the past (XB putting glitch!), so wanted to start this process. The next step I'm sure is they will ask me for videos to confirm, so hopefully I can eventually put something together (or maybe use that handy word doc that jp44 put together)! If others want to start submitting tickets, this was the text I used: "The game on XB suffers from having limited polling points. What this means is as follows: - Swing outcomes are extremely limited, and all swings are rounded into a fixed number of outcomes. What this means is if you pay close attention to the swing tempo dial, you're only hitting around 5-7 spots on the dial (a few in the red fast + red slow areas, plus one in the perfect). If you play on PS4 or PC, or watch players on these consoles on Twitch, you're able to see what it looks like to be able to play the game as intended and have a much more variable swing. - The ultimate result is that on Master settings (or above) it's impossible to have a calibration set up where you can hit a grey slow, a perfect, or a grey fast. In fact, it is only on certain calibrations + club setups where you can even hit a perfect + a grey fast (or slow if you calibrate your perfect polling point to the left edge, for example). What this means is, the polling points are too spread out, so they're further apart than the bands for the perfect/grey fast/grey slow areas. So you either round to perfect (or wherever that polling point is calibrated to be, as it could even be a grey fast or a grey slow for some users based on their calibrations - yes, which means it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to hit a perfect), or your shot is in the red. - This makes the game extremely challenging, especially after the recent patches. Basically, on XB on Master, you either hit perfect, or you're hitting a red fast/slow (for the most part), which results in a terrible shot. - I bring up how this impacts players the most on Master because of the small tempo areas, but the same problems are prevalent on all the other difficulties. No matter what, you're glued to the same polling points. All your swing outcomes register into those same outcomes. I've done some testing to attempt figure this stuff out. The issue appears to stem from the XB controller's 124hz polling rate (vs. 250hz wired for PS4, 800hz wireless bluetooth for PS4/PS5, and variable polling rates up to 1000hz on PC). Unfortunately, I also used an adapter to use a PS4 DS4 controller on the XB, but the same problem still persisted - all my swings were getting rounded into the exact same polling points. This leads me to believe that there is something going on at the console level as well that impacts how swing outcomes are being registered by the game. Thanks for your time. Love the game, just trying to help make it better on XB!" Hopefully that gets the point across... Just copied and pasted what you wrote above and added in the word doc with the tempo screenshots... Who knows but worth a shot. |
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Post by Craig / Hendomedes on Jun 8, 2021 14:03:31 GMT -5
If nothing else it would be interesting to hear what kind of response you guys get. Hopefully give an indication of them being at least aware of things being different on Xbox.
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Post by dansamp on Jun 8, 2021 14:07:37 GMT -5
If nothing else it would be interesting to hear what kind of response you guys get. Hopefully give an indication of them being at least aware of things being different on Xbox. Haha unfortunately the responses are normally incredibly boiler-platey from some customer relations person who handles all of the 2K support tickets for all their games, and doesn't actually have any idea what is going on. But I'm pretty sure that if enough requests are submitted along a similar theme, they eventually get passed onto the devs, and then you can get a response along the lines of "the developers are aware of this issue and are working on it, although we cannot guarantee there will be any changes". That's what happened when the putting glitch came up on XB. |
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Post by sroel908 on Jun 8, 2021 14:19:08 GMT -5
If nothing else it would be interesting to hear what kind of response you guys get. Hopefully give an indication of them being at least aware of things being different on Xbox. Haha unfortunately the responses are normally incredibly boiler-platey from some customer relations person who handles all of the 2K support tickets for all their games, and doesn't actually have any idea what is going on. But I'm pretty sure that if enough requests are submitted along a similar theme, they eventually get passed onto the devs, and then you can get a response along the lines of "the developers are aware of this issue and are working on it, although we cannot guarantee there will be any changes". That's what happened when the putting glitch came up on XB. I wish you more luck than what I had with career mode problems. 2K Support essentially told me, after I submitted a ticket about the glitched career mode leaderboards (complete with lots of screenshots) that the devs were aware, and to watch the PGA 2K21 Twitter account for any updates...that was early March. No word on any changes since then. |
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Post by jp44 on Jun 8, 2021 14:21:26 GMT -5
If nothing else it would be interesting to hear what kind of response you guys get. Hopefully give an indication of them being at least aware of things being different on Xbox. Yeah expecting crickets but I figure as long as I'm still playing the game its worth it to re-submit every week until a reply comes. If the only way to ever fix the issue for the TGC/2K franchise depends on the polling rate being changed by MSFT/XB then we are probably toast. No idea how MSFT/XB wouldn't be aware that their polling rates are half of their competitors, but would hazard to guess there's a reason for it. Either limited by hardware/software or by choice to optimize performance somehow? Again, I dont actually know what I'm talking about in the slightest and simply speculating. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 14:22:25 GMT -5
If nothing else it would be interesting to hear what kind of response you guys get. Hopefully give an indication of them being at least aware of things being different on Xbox. Believe me they are aware. A lot of people on the HB forum including myself have mentioned it frequently. I know for a fact that HB do take notes over there. Fingers crossed we see some results for the next game. I run a cross platform society and every XBox member has given up. Tbh these Devs could not make the game and be totally unaware that problems exist. Surely their game testers would also point this out. |
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Post by Craig / Hendomedes on Jun 8, 2021 16:15:12 GMT -5
If nothing else it would be interesting to hear what kind of response you guys get. Hopefully give an indication of them being at least aware of things being different on Xbox. Yeah expecting crickets but I figure as long as I'm still playing the game its worth it to re-submit every week until a reply comes. If the only way to ever fix the issue for the TGC/2K franchise depends on the polling rate being changed by MSFT/XB then we are probably toast. No idea how MSFT/XB wouldn't be aware that their polling rates are half of their competitors, but would hazard to guess there's a reason for it. Either limited by hardware/software or by choice to optimize performance somehow? Again, I dont actually know what I'm talking about in the slightest and simply speculating. I might do the same actually just to see if we can provoke a proper response. Worth a try. And I don't get it either. You would think that would be a big talking point in 'console wars' etc that the controller is so much less responsive with the console or even hear about it more being an issue in crossplay first person shooters etc. but I've never read that anywhere (not that I play them to be fair, it may well be common knowledge). Unless PGA is just the perfect storm of precise tempo in such a short timing window or it's an issue with unity engine on Xbox or something. It's weird. I'm actually enjoying the game lately again but it'd be nice to know what's causing all this finally. |
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Post by dansamp on Jun 8, 2021 16:55:19 GMT -5
Yeah expecting crickets but I figure as long as I'm still playing the game its worth it to re-submit every week until a reply comes. If the only way to ever fix the issue for the TGC/2K franchise depends on the polling rate being changed by MSFT/XB then we are probably toast. No idea how MSFT/XB wouldn't be aware that their polling rates are half of their competitors, but would hazard to guess there's a reason for it. Either limited by hardware/software or by choice to optimize performance somehow? Again, I dont actually know what I'm talking about in the slightest and simply speculating. I might do the same actually just to see if we can provoke a proper response. Worth a try. And I don't get it either. You would think that would be a big talking point in 'console wars' etc that the controller is so much less responsive with the console or even hear about it more being an issue in crossplay first person shooters etc. but I've never read that anywhere (not that I play them to be fair, it may well be common knowledge). Unless PGA is just the perfect storm of precise tempo in such a short timing window or it's an issue with unity engine on Xbox or something. It's weird. I'm actually enjoying the game lately again but it'd be nice to know what's causing all this finally. If you care to learn more about it, this video does break it down very well: I'd posted this before I think, but to what you're saying, the ultimate conclusion in this video is that he can't recommend the XB Controller for competitive gaming because of the polling rate issue. Googling it I can find some discussions on it on reddit and some other avenues, but it's definitely not something that is regularly discussed! So, I also think you're right in that for PGA it's a perfect storm where you can actually see the results of the polling sensitivity and it's limitations, vs. in a first person shooter or something where we're talking a fraction of milliseconds difference when aiming that won't have THAT much of an impact |
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jun 8, 2021 17:54:31 GMT -5
dansamp, great ticket to 2K21 posted above. Good work! I sent 2K21 a ticket when we had the putting glitch and was met with the stock response. Must have been enough of the Xboxers reaching out to 2K21/HB to enact that change. Hopefully something will come of the tempo/polling points issue. What I find humorous and confusing at the same time is that the Xbox controller is considered the "inferior" controller however the PC guys have no issue with these polling points. So it mustn't be an issue with the controller as such but the console or how the game operates on the console.
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Post by Smijti on Jun 8, 2021 21:02:02 GMT -5
So it mustn't be an issue with the controller as such but the console or how the game operates on the console. I'm more and more convinced that it's a framerate / latency issue. My XB1 started an update, so i decided to check how this will affect my swing tempo and it was disastrous. Same happens on courses with big waterfalls or a lot of details. To top it all off, i can easily hit 8 perfect tempo swings out of 10 on the driving range with the least forgiving driver. Would never happen playing a round online. For sure, there are other things involved here, but the framerates are the most obvious for me. The game should give us the option to turn VSync off, cause that's the s.o.b. causing all the trouble, i believe. |
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