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Post by doublebogey on Mar 9, 2015 16:57:36 GMT -5
The real problem with low scoring events is it really doesn't distinguish between great playing and good playing for most of the holes played. It's only the remaining less than half that make any difference.
Take the Northern Trust open on the PGA. The average score for those who made the cut was about 60.5. That means for everyone who made the cut they birdied about 10 out of the 18 holes. Which makes those 10 holes completely irrelevant to the outcome. Unless you were lucky to hole out, except for eagle putts on par 5's, everyone had the same score. So in that sense, skill had zero part in more than half the holes played. If you played great, or just OK, the outcome was identical for those holes.
If you get hot and really play great and birdie 10 holes in a row, how many shots are you really picking up on the field? 2, maybe 3. This is where the problem lies. If we can find a way to raise the average score to closer to 70, that makes way more holes that actually matter and require more skill. And that way playing great shows up on the scorecard. People will really be able to see when someone shoots a really great round. With golf, shooting an exceptional round should shoot you up the leaderboard, not only get you a couple of strokes off the field.
Curious to hear what others think.
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Post by rod81simo on Mar 9, 2015 17:08:52 GMT -5
I agree with you the challenge for us designers is finding the balance it's really tough to do. Not easy at all. Fair yet challenging is tuff. Go check out my Growling Frog course(WIP) published under GFGCC# and let me know what you think. I'm trying to find that balance with this course and have tweaked the front 9 and need some general ideas still on front but more so on the back as have only published the full 18 yesterday.
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Post by bentfivewood on Mar 9, 2015 18:49:35 GMT -5
After last week's difficult course for the wgc event, it's a nice contrast to have an easier course to play.
To me the big difference this week WILL be how many Eagles, hole-in-ones, you can get, as well as eliminating bogeys. If a person with a single bogey in 4 rounds on this event wins the tournament I'll eat my hat.
I, for one, tend to finish better on the more difficult courses but I know others tend to do better on the easier courses. I don't think you'll see a whole lot tracks this easy though.
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Post by Matt10 on Mar 9, 2015 19:07:57 GMT -5
I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole too much, but the main thing that it comes down to is comfort zone. Guys want to play this game like it's a buffet: "I want a little bit of difficult, but not gimmicky, but not too easy; I'd also like a challenge and a dressing of realism....please". Can't imagine what the course designers think after seeing their beloved courses get destroyed.
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Post by rod81simo on Mar 9, 2015 19:10:25 GMT -5
I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole too much, but the main thing that it comes down to is comfort zone. Guys want to play this game like it's a buffet: "I want a little bit of difficult, but not gimmicky, but not too easy; I'd also like a challenge and a dressing of realism....please". Can't imagine what the course designers think after seeing their beloved courses get destroyed. thats my courses |
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Post by doublebogey on Mar 9, 2015 21:26:08 GMT -5
Go check out my Growling Frog course(WIP) published under GFGCC# and let me know what you think. I'm trying to find that balance with this course and have tweaked the front 9 and need some general ideas still on front but more so on the back as have only published the full 18 yesterday. Great course, really appealing to the eye. Flying through it quickly I shot 67 with 2 bogeys. Excellent use of contours in the fairways. The tee shots are challenging in spots. I really liked that short par 4, the 290 yd one. very nice risk/reward hole. I would maybe add another bunker in the fairway to make the landing area smaller between the water and bunkers on the lay up. The only thing I'd change is adding more slope to the short par 4 greens. When you're coming in with a wedge, make them hit a small spot to cash in on an easy birdie. And overall I'd add a little more slope near the cup for about 6 or 7 holes. 6 ft putts don't have to be gimmes. very very good, I like where you're headed. |
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Post by rod81simo on Mar 9, 2015 21:34:07 GMT -5
Go check out my Growling Frog course(WIP) published under GFGCC# and let me know what you think. I'm trying to find that balance with this course and have tweaked the front 9 and need some general ideas still on front but more so on the back as have only published the full 18 yesterday. Great course, really appealing to the eye. Flying through it quickly I shot 67 with 2 bogeys. Excellent use of contours in the fairways. The tee shots are challenging in spots. I really liked that short par 4, the 290 yd one. very nice risk/reward hole. I would maybe add another bunker in the fairway to make the landing area smaller between the water and bunkers on the lay up. The only thing I'd change is adding more slope to the short par 4 greens. When you're coming in with a wedge, make them hit a small spot to cash in on an easy birdie. And overall I'd add a little more slope near the cup for about 6 or 7 holes. 6 ft putts don't have to be gimmes. very very good, I like where you're headed. cheers mate thanks for the advice and glad you like it so far. I agree with the shorter hole sloping and something I'm still looking at and yeah in gonna drop in another pot bunker on the corner of the fairway on 9 where it opens up again to maybe think about laying up even shorter and also creating more slope. Check out GFGCC without the # and see what the course liked like for my first test and us only front 9. Hole has changed dramatically but I didn't adjust any of the fairway in this area and your spot on it needs it I reckon. And maybe which greens were you talking about so I can focus there to if any stick in your mind. Cheers for the play and feedback mate  |
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Post by doublebogey on Mar 9, 2015 21:34:56 GMT -5
Really the biggest problem is not enough slopes on greens for the courses.
looking at my putting stats, they are ridiculous, and I'm not near the best putter.
Putt accuracy long - 31%, putt accuracy medium 83%, putt accuracy short 99%. I have no idea what distances those entail, but those percentages are way way too high
I've played many courses in real life where you just can't leave the ball above the hole without hitting it 10 ft bye if you miss. Designers, don't be afraid of slope.
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Post by rod81simo on Mar 9, 2015 21:39:44 GMT -5
My Emirates course is a challenge to sat/sun up the ante with tees and pins anyways. Sat 7400 and sun. 7500yds
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Post by doublebogey on Mar 9, 2015 21:44:00 GMT -5
Great course, really appealing to the eye. Flying through it quickly I shot 67 with 2 bogeys. Excellent use of contours in the fairways. The tee shots are challenging in spots. I really liked that short par 4, the 290 yd one. very nice risk/reward hole. I would maybe add another bunker in the fairway to make the landing area smaller between the water and bunkers on the lay up. The only thing I'd change is adding more slope to the short par 4 greens. When you're coming in with a wedge, make them hit a small spot to cash in on an easy birdie. And overall I'd add a little more slope near the cup for about 6 or 7 holes. 6 ft putts don't have to be gimmes. very very good, I like where you're headed. cheers mate thanks for the advice and glad you like it so far. I agree with the shorter hole sloping and something I'm still looking at and yeah in gonna drop in another pot bunker on the corner of the fairway on 9 where it opens up again to maybe think about laying up even shorter and also creating more slope. Check out GFGCC without the # and see what the course liked like for my first test and us only front 9. Hole has changed dramatically but I didn't adjust any of the fairway in this area and your spot on it needs it I reckon. And maybe which greens were you talking about so I can focus there to if any stick in your mind. Cheers for the play and feedback mate I would leave the greens that have the tiers alone. The ones without, I wouldn't mind seeing some extra slope near the hole. In general, holes that have an easy approach, make the putting more difficult. And vice versa. |
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Post by rod81simo on Mar 9, 2015 21:47:38 GMT -5
Alright cheers again
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Post by doublebogey on Mar 9, 2015 22:22:02 GMT -5
Thank you for creating, I don't have the patience for that. The most I do, is quick create a course with max hills, max water, and max difficulty and give it a go when i want a challenge.
cheers
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Post by rod81simo on Mar 9, 2015 22:29:55 GMT -5
Haha nice
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Post by rod81simo on Mar 9, 2015 22:30:17 GMT -5
Have you played Emirates International yet
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Post by karma4u on Mar 9, 2015 23:58:12 GMT -5
Two of the best realistic playing courses in the game..........PGA West (Palmer) and Emirates International..........
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