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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 16:14:37 GMT -5
. Harbour Town is a nice RCR, but some weird tree spots and the low difficulty made me stick with Heritage. No problem at all to choose the excellent fictional Heritage. I'm just curious what trees you are refering to? (I made this RCR). Some trees close to the tees on 13th and 16th was not picked up on beta, but I noticed them a bit later. So in the latest version of the course (2020) these have been fixed. Also the big tree on the 8th in the waste bunker is made smaller. More noticeable changes are the retaining walls on the 4th, 8th, 14th. (Just a little comment on the very high wind discussion; I believe the vast majority who plays these tours are not here for the challenge, for if that was the case - all would want to turn off all aids -. why play with scout cam, lie and green grid, putting marker, etc if the intent is that the players should have the most challenge?).
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Post by theduke21 on Mar 30, 2020 16:16:52 GMT -5
It's course dependent too.
On a wide open links with huge greens I'm totally fine with it - we've all seen Open Championship played in really nasty winds and there's a safe play to the middle of the green if that's how you want to approach it.
Tracks with tiny targets to hit and greens which fall away all over the place (ie most of the courses we've played this season) - Nope.
And somewhere like Augusta, it also just doesn't ring true that it would be THAT windy. And certainly not that windy and that firm in unison with each other. Generally when storms come through it softens it up at the same time, no? Wind with rain would definitely soften them up, but if it’s a dry wind, it’s the opposite effect really. That’s why we saw basically no one break par on the Florida swing this year. It was windy with no rain and it made the greens crisp and fast. Most guys in the final round at Bay Hill couldn’t even hold the greens on any approach shot. Hatton said multiple times on the way in that he couldn’t have possibly hit a better shot after his ball rolled off the back of the green lol. I honestly don’t feel that very firm greens even are very penalizing on this game. Maybe others feel differently. But even our max firm really isn’t all that firm. There’s been very few times I’ve felt like I’ve needed to run a ball up on the green which is unfortunate for links style tracks. Almost seems like very firm on this game was about 3/4 firm on TGC1 if not even lower.
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Post by theduke21 on Mar 30, 2020 16:23:18 GMT -5
. Harbour Town is a nice RCR, but some weird tree spots and the low difficulty made me stick with Heritage. No problem at all to choose the excellent fictional Heritage. I'm just curious what trees you are refering to? (I made this RCR). Some trees close to the tees on 13th and 16th was not picked up on beta, but I noticed them a bit later. So in the latest version of the course (2020) these have been fixed. Also the big tree on the 8th in the waste bunker is made smaller. More noticeable changes are the retaining walls on the 4th, 8th, 14th. (Just a little comment on the very high wind discussion; I believe the vast majority who plays these tours are not here for the challenge, for if that was the case - all would want to turn off all aids -. why play with scout cam, lie and green grid, putting marker, etc if the intent is that the players should have the most challenge?). I’d have to go back and play, and it was nothing at all egregious. I’m fairly certain they were all true to life but in this game with the wind, it made it feel pretty claustrophobic if you needed to aim left or right with wind. I think that may have been the case with a couple par 3’s too. Great RCR though and glad it’s in the game. It was a tough decision for me on which to go with, but i’m looking forward to it on TST. You’re probably right on the challenge thing. Which is what always makes this tough. You typically have about half the people with one opinion and half with the other. And typically the half that disagree will be the loudest. But I’ll always try to hear everyone out and go with what makes the most sense hopefully.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 16:29:38 GMT -5
No problem at all to choose the excellent fictional Heritage. I'm just curious what trees you are refering to? (I made this RCR). Some trees close to the tees on 13th and 16th was not picked up on beta, but I noticed them a bit later. So in the latest version of the course (2020) these have been fixed. Also the big tree on the 8th in the waste bunker is made smaller. More noticeable changes are the retaining walls on the 4th, 8th, 14th. (Just a little comment on the very high wind discussion; I believe the vast majority who plays these tours are not here for the challenge, for if that was the case - all would want to turn off all aids -. why play with scout cam, lie and green grid, putting marker, etc if the intent is that the players should have the most challenge?). I’d have to go back and play, and it was nothing at all egregious. I’m fairly certain they were all true to life but in this game with the wind, it made it feel pretty claustrophobic if you needed to aim left or right with wind. I think that may have been the case with a couple par 3’s too. Great RCR though and glad it’s in the game. It was a tough decision for me on which to go with, but i’m looking forward to it on TST. You’re probably right on the challenge thing. Which is what always makes this tough. You typically have about half the people with one opinion and half with the other. And typically the half that disagree will be the loudest. But I’ll always try to hear everyone out and go with what makes the most sense hopefully. Harbour Town is known for this. You can be blocked on the wrong side of the fairways on many holes. This is why you don't see the driver so much in use when the pros play the RBC Heritage. The exception is ofcourse 18th, with probably the widest fairway on the Tour.
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Post by catcherman22 on Mar 30, 2020 16:36:51 GMT -5
And I have to ask, and hopefully everyone is honest. Do you hate very high winds because they’re actually buggy and unfair, or do you hate them because they’re mentally taxing and take a ton of work to play well in them? I was completely the latter as recently as last year. I’m pretty sure I even complained about very high winds after the tournament at Justin’s course last year. I was only mad because I didn’t feel like putting in the effort in very high winds and played poorly and got angry. I’ve turned around on that completely. I think now very high is one of the only ways to challenge in the game by putting a premium on getting the ball on line and course management. Both... They are buggy cross wind and It just takes too much work to enjoy them... Given the choice between playing very firm / very fast greens or very high winds.. I'd take very firm / very fast all day... they both suck, but I will not play in a tournament that has very fast winds unless the course can support it and I'll enjoy it. Like I said.. I don't care about the challenge aspect... but things have become way to grindy on here and taken all of the fun out of it. I'd rather shoot -50 and lose by 10+ and enjoy it shots than have everybody shoot lower and have no fun playing the round. Last tournament I really enjoyed was La Bombia… shot -46 and finished 41st.
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Post by unclevirt on Mar 30, 2020 16:43:45 GMT -5
I just don't understand the argument for very hard winds being unrealistic when we play a game with grids on, feed swing-back on, whatever zooming in to see the green is called, a broken swing mechanic and plenty of other things. There is an option to monitor most of these "unrealistic factors" such as...IDK, turning them off (I am in no way advocating for this when it's already being utilized in USE). This game is so far from realistic that it's.....dare I say....unreal. But sure, let's complain about the very high winds.
Coming from someone who is struggling with hitting the ball straight/consistent...whatever...due to not trying to hit it straight for so long (because I didn't know this was wrong), I still prefer playing tournaments with a fair amount of unrealistic conditions because winners in the mid 60s to mid 70s (because that's totally realistic) is just so boring.
That's all, y'all can go back to your discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 16:45:16 GMT -5
I think I've stated my case as factually as I can that I object to them because they are buggy not because I'm lazy.
Good to be the scheduler and set up courses the way you like I suppose. Perks of the job.
Can you at least tell us when you're scheduling very high winds so those of us that don't want to play goofy golf can skip a week. Thanks.
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Post by theduke21 on Mar 30, 2020 16:56:11 GMT -5
I think I've stated my case as factually as I can that I object to them because they are buggy not because I'm lazy. Good to be the scheduler and set up courses the way you like I suppose. Perks of the job. Can you at least tell us when you're scheduling very high winds so those of us that don't want to play goofy golf can skip a week. Thanks. The winds will probably be close to 20 MPH on Sunday at our Masters next week. About the same number as they were on the back 9 on last year's IRL tournament and about 15 mph less than they were early in the IRL 2017 Masters. I bet Franky Molinari was pretty mad when the winds gusted to 25 MPH on the 12th hole last year and lost him the the green jacket.
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Post by theduke21 on Mar 30, 2020 17:02:01 GMT -5
And going forward, no very highs at RBC Heritage, no very highs at Zurich, one very high at Wells Fargo, multiple very highs at Bryon Nelson.
Plan your schedules accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 17:04:16 GMT -5
And going forward, no very highs at RBC Heritage, no very highs at Zurich, one very high at Wells Fargo, multiple very highs at Bryon Nelson. Plan your schedules accordingly. Thanks
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Post by Doyley on Mar 30, 2020 18:27:17 GMT -5
I think I've stated my case as factually as I can that I object to them because they are buggy not because I'm lazy. Good to be the scheduler and set up courses the way you like I suppose. Perks of the job. Can you at least tell us when you're scheduling very high winds so those of us that don't want to play goofy golf can skip a week. Thanks. You can check the weather report - it'll show events with Very High winds
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Post by rcknfrewld on Mar 31, 2020 5:26:17 GMT -5
Please stop.
If we can't present opinions on a topic, then there's no point to this forum.
You're honestly reaching avoidance territory at this point, just please...come'on man, be reasonable and we can all have some fun around here like we used to rather than the constant bickering and sniping that you all too often incite and engage in - or at a bare minimum are involved in. Thanks bud.
Stop what? Making accurate observations? If you guys want to endlessly and exhaustingly and tediously and pointlessly debate course conditions every single week, then knock yourselves out. I won't tell you to stop. I was just telling Tyler how to avoid all the usual grumblers. Grumble on Justin. And feel free to continue to condescendingly talk down to me if it makes you feel better.
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Post by hippystein on Mar 31, 2020 6:23:28 GMT -5
Im cool whatever the conditions are except lighting and what i will say there is no point play testing specific winds as they change. We have all noticed in a society im in the wind does whatever it wants. Ie we have set east and in the event with it set at east its completely different.
Leave lightining alone. Dusk and dawn messes with frame rate.
I also think its not about vf vf all the time. I find courses with soft receptive greens and big winds play a lot harder as you cant run it out as much.
I also dont get some course selections. I played firethorn with a bunch of mates yesterday and we all said how bad it is compared to royces. Sculpting is wrong in a lot of areas. You get punished for good shots (which is never good.) The joy of the masters is its played on the same course year after year. Fire thorn just doesnt cut it for me.
This weeks track was a poor mans augusta tbh! I get you set it up to be tough but im not a fan of it on normal settings. If dale was still scheduling that wouldnt of seen light of day on pga. So many more amazing golf courses.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 31, 2020 8:04:04 GMT -5
Do you hate very high winds because they’re actually buggy and unfair, or do you hate them because they’re mentally taxing and take a ton of work to play well in them? The "grind" element of VH winds isn't something that's inherently un-fun for me, but it can get tiresome if/when overused, IMO. To be clear, I'm not saying NEVER use VH, I just personally don't enjoy having them too frequently and/or in situations (course style, round setup, etc) that don't fit that extreme gameplay element - this is just an opinion, doesn't mean it's the absolute truth and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.
An example of a setup that wasn't ideal, IMO, could be seen in round2 this week on the 11th (I think) hole. Forced carry, pin sitting right above a huge slope/tier, gale force winds in your face, and your only viable option other than flat out laying up on a par4 is to set your beer down, close your eyes, and pray that your driver off the deck swing was good enough to get off the ground for long enough to cover the forced carry - that shot was a bit silly, and I think Tyler even mentioned something to that effect in the other thread, and that he didn't intend for it to play that way. I guess that's kind of my point, because if a certain wind speed isn't good to use in a specific direction because it would result in an issue like the 11th in round2 this week, then it doesn't make much sense to me to use it at all. If you talk about "do you want to just control everything," then I would say that the use of VH winds ONLY in one specific direction is a great example of "controlling" variables in a way that nature makes impossible irl - kind of like saying "OK we'll use this unrealistic wind speed value, but not in the direction that turns hole 'X' into something ridiculous, we can control that part of it." So while I appreciate and can understand the line of thought that leads one to the assumption that everyone who doesn't like VH winds are those who just want to "control" everything and break out a calculator to play (pretty over-the-top assertion, btw), I don't think you can then also say that it's perfectly OK to ensure that the wind is in a very specific direction for VH speed or else a hole or two will be semi-unplayable - that's wanting to control conditions, too, it's just the other side of the coin.
To the main point of your question, I guess if I had to pick a single biggest gripe with VH winds, it's the inability to properly play in them in this game. You can do a bit more of that with shorter shots - deloft or pitch, etc. - but we don't have a ton of short approach shots on this level. A 15mph+ headwind on shots that are 190yds+, given the mechanism of distance and shot control in this game, basically means grab the club you carry that's closest and hit, just isn't a lot of strategy in it for me. That isn't always true, obviously, because again the course style/setup has a lot of say in how those types of shots play, but most of our courses are similar, with pins on high spots, firm or very firm greens rolling 170+ speeds. It absolutely increases the "challenge," but to me, it just feels like the game doesn't allow for a strategic shot - I can't pull out my 2h and hit a little punchy 3/4 swing to keep it under the wind as I might irl, because the punch shot in this game is junk, not to mention the broken spin mechanic that negates a lot of irl golf physics.
I think I'm struggling to exactly explain my position since I feel like I'm just repeating myself a lot, so I'll just leave it at that. Again, this is just an opinion, take it for what it's worth, and I appreciate the mostly level headed discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 8:07:01 GMT -5
I also dont get some course selections. I played firethorn with a bunch of mates yesterday and we all said how bad it is compared to royces. Sculpting is wrong in a lot of areas. You get punished for good shots (which is never good.) The joy of the masters is its played on the same course year after year. Fire thorn just doesnt cut it for me. If the joy of the Masters is that it's played on the same course then Royce's should never have been used in the first place. I remember people having the same argument when Royce's course was selected saying it should be tradition to play CLV's version every year.
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