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Post by deathstar on Mar 30, 2020 3:25:26 GMT -5
I'm guessing Tyler is not afraid of all the bellyaching that will come from the usual bellyachers who will bellyache about VH winds. PGA should be the toughest test not cater to those struggling to make cuts. VH winds is not tougher it just behaves very sporadically and unrealistic in this game. Then of course there are those who prefer arcade over simulation.
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Post by rcknfrewld on Mar 30, 2020 3:53:13 GMT -5
I'm guessing Tyler is not afraid of all the bellyaching that will come from the usual bellyachers who will bellyache about VH winds. PGA should be the toughest test not cater to those struggling to make cuts. VH winds is not tougher it just behaves very sporadically and unrealistic in this game. Then of course there are those who prefer arcade over simulation. The wind is not exactly predictable in real life. It gusts and blows in different speeds and directions. If anything, having exact consistent wind like we do in the game is arcadish. I think those that think the wind is sporadic don't realize how "mishitting" drastically affects your shot in the wind.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 30, 2020 9:18:36 GMT -5
Whens the last time you played a round of golf and aimed clear left of a green to get to a right pin position, just to try and account for the wind? I won't lie, I'm pretty dishearten to read the intentions to use VH winds multiple times per week. I do not believe that setting is anything near a mimic of real life conditions in a few ways, but even if you disagree with that, I think most can at least agree on the fact that this game does not offer the ability to effectively play in the wind in a way which attempts to replicate real golf. IRL, you try to play the ball back in your stance/low at certain times, maybe play a 3/4 punchy shot, etc., all of us that play golf don't need to hear me tell how you play in wind. In this game, though, trying to manipulate the loft box to get something that's kind of like those IRL shots really doesn't offer any value over hitting a normal shot and aiming 30ft left/right of target to counteract winds. I play draw/fades against the wind all the time in TGC so I "get" that aspect for sure, but it's always just felt to me like VH winds are way overpowered - especially in the face of a gameplay mechanic that basically limits your options on how to play in it.
I respect the opinions of others who like VH, for whatever their reasons are, but this is something I've never felt was implemented in a realistic way in TGC - and for me, it's a bummer to know that we're going to be playing in those as much as half the time now, because I was really looking forward to a change-up in tournament setups that would bring more fun/enjoyment, and this is kind of the opposite of that for me personally.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Mar 30, 2020 9:33:06 GMT -5
It's course dependent too.
On a wide open links with huge greens I'm totally fine with it - we've all seen Open Championship played in really nasty winds and there's a safe play to the middle of the green if that's how you want to approach it.
Tracks with tiny targets to hit and greens which fall away all over the place (ie most of the courses we've played this season) - Nope.
And somewhere like Augusta, it also just doesn't ring true that it would be THAT windy. And certainly not that windy and that firm in unison with each other. Generally when storms come through it softens it up at the same time, no?
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 30, 2020 9:40:44 GMT -5
It's course dependent too.
On a wide open links with huge greens I'm totally fine with it - we've all seen Open Championship played in really nasty winds and there's a safe play to the middle of the green if that's how you want to approach it. Yes, completely agree with this. Guess I assumed that went without saying, but yea certainly VH winds are much more prevalent in links-style golf, and therefore much more appropriate in-game.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Mar 30, 2020 10:05:32 GMT -5
But you'll also see that I'm going to throw in a low winds/moderate greens round most weeks to test everyone to go as low as possible. So one round you'll have to fight for every birdie, a couple rounds later every par may feel like a bogey. This should keep things fresh and test all aspects of your game. I don't really get this Tyler.
How many real life tournaments do you see where the conditions vary so wildly from day to day? From a birdie fest on Friday to US Open conditions on Saturday?
You've said courses are designed with a certain green speed for a reason and so generally you won't stray too far from the default. The same thing applies to firmness. Some courses play better softer, some firmer.
Mostly, we play tough courses and conditions - no problem with that. If instead you want to test our ability to throw darts, to me it makes more sense to just toss in an easy week with soft/moderate greens every now and then rather than making one round a week randomly easy. It's not really fresh if every week follows the same kind of pattern.
I'd urge you not to fall into the trap of mixing and matching conditions on a whim just because you're able to.
This week was a good example of that. For me the VF/VH was overkill and the moderate round felt like it was thrown in as a means to make up for that. I really enjoyed the course in default conditions practice but felt like I was the subject of some weird experiment in the tournament.
Pick varied, quality courses (as you seemingly have) and the challenge is there without the need for all the messing about IMO
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Post by catcherman22 on Mar 30, 2020 10:16:32 GMT -5
Whens the last time you played a round of golf and aimed clear left of a green to get to a right pin position, just to try and account for the wind? I won't lie, I'm pretty dishearten to read the intentions to use VH winds multiple times per week. I do not believe that setting is anything near a mimic of real life conditions in a few ways, but even if you disagree with that, I think most can at least agree on the fact that this game does not offer the ability to effectively play in the wind in a way which attempts to replicate real golf. IRL, you try to play the ball back in your stance/low at certain times, maybe play a 3/4 punchy shot, etc., all of us that play golf don't need to hear me tell how you play in wind. In this game, though, trying to manipulate the loft box to get something that's kind of like those IRL shots really doesn't offer any value over hitting a normal shot and aiming 30ft left/right of target to counteract winds. I play draw/fades against the wind all the time in TGC so I "get" that aspect for sure, but it's always just felt to me like VH winds are way overpowered - especially in the face of a gameplay mechanic that basically limits your options on how to play in it.
I respect the opinions of others who like VH, for whatever their reasons are, but this is something I've never felt was implemented in a realistic way in TGC - and for me, it's a bummer to know that we're going to be playing in those as much as half the time now, because I was really looking forward to a change-up in tournament setups that would bring more fun/enjoyment, and this is kind of the opposite of that for me personally.
100% for me... I’ve already decided I won’t play weeks where I wont enjoy the course or conditions... I could give two cents about whether it plays easy or hard... I just want to enjoy my four rounds and not feel like it’s a grind
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 10:28:04 GMT -5
Very High winds are the same as rain to me. It’s widely known and accepted that rain is not good due to frame rate issues and inconsistencies it creates so we’ve ruled them out for Tour rounds. Are we going to be bringing rain back now too? Lots of people would say there’s no issue here so we should.
How about the yellow slopes in the 9 box? Why do we follow that on the PGA? We could eliminate that rule too and really make the greens interesting.
My point is there are lost of ways we could make things harder on PGA does that mean we should?
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Post by rob4590 on Mar 30, 2020 10:57:10 GMT -5
Over / under on how many weeks it takes Tyler to tell everyone to F-off and bins the scheduling......... 5.5 is the break even currently IMO...
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 30, 2020 11:28:54 GMT -5
Over / under on how many weeks it takes Tyler to tell everyone to F-off and bins the scheduling......... 5.5 is the break even currently IMO... I definitely don’t want that to happen, and hope my comments aren’t interpreted as a rebuke of his decisions - was only wanting to add some feedback from an opposing point of view, in a sensible way (hopefully). Certainly don’t want to be a part of any pitchfork wielding mob, nor do I think anyone else does. As always, I’ll play whatever setups are put forth, and do genuinely appreciate the time/effort our schedulers put in.
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Post by rcknfrewld on Mar 30, 2020 12:14:42 GMT -5
You should have this thread locked because everyone is going to tell you what conditions they prefer and/or dislike and it will never end. That way you can just present your logic for the week and be done with it and not have to explain yourself over and over and over again. See?
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Post by jtcurrent on Mar 30, 2020 13:44:36 GMT -5
Over / under on how many weeks it takes Tyler to tell everyone to F-off and bins the scheduling......... 5.5 is the break even currently IMO... I don’t know Tyler personally but I’ve been around a few years and I don’t think there’s a chance anyone gets under his skin. I do think there’s a great probability the same people who complain weekly will continue to complain weekly. And in my opinion the only thing Tyler owes those folks is his complete indifference. its ok to have opinions but just because someone has one doesn’t mean it’s right or representative of the majority.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 30, 2020 15:27:00 GMT -5
You should have this thread locked because everyone is going to tell you what conditions they prefer and/or dislike and it will never end. That way you can just present your logic for the week and be done with it and not have to explain yourself over and over and over again. See? Please stop.
If we can't present opinions on a topic, then there's no point to this forum.
You're honestly reaching avoidance territory at this point, just please...come'on man, be reasonable and we can all have some fun around here like we used to rather than the constant bickering and sniping that you all too often incite and engage in - or at a bare minimum are involved in. Thanks bud.
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Post by theduke21 on Mar 30, 2020 15:59:36 GMT -5
But you'll also see that I'm going to throw in a low winds/moderate greens round most weeks to test everyone to go as low as possible. So one round you'll have to fight for every birdie, a couple rounds later every par may feel like a bogey. This should keep things fresh and test all aspects of your game. I don't really get this Tyler.
How many real life tournaments do you see where the conditions vary so wildly from day to day? From a birdie fest on Friday to US Open conditions on Saturday?
You've said courses are designed with a certain green speed for a reason and so generally you won't stray too far from the default. The same thing applies to firmness. Some courses play better softer, some firmer.
Mostly, we play tough courses and conditions - no problem with that. If instead you want to test our ability to throw darts, to me it makes more sense to just toss in an easy week with soft/moderate greens every now and then rather than making one round a week randomly easy. It's not really fresh if every week follows the same kind of pattern.
I'd urge you not to fall into the trap of mixing and matching conditions on a whim just because you're able to.
This week was a good example of that. For me the VF/VH was overkill and the moderate round felt like it was thrown in as a means to make up for that. I really enjoyed the course in default conditions practice but felt like I was the subject of some weird experiment in the tournament.
Pick varied, quality courses (as you seemingly have) and the challenge is there without the need for all the messing about IMO
I think governing bodies set up the course differently per round more than you think. Especially the US Open, The Masters, the PGA and even The Players. Most PGA Tour tournaments don’t because they just set it up easy all the time. We’ve seen many times how easy they’ll setup Augusta for a Saturday with softer greens and easy pins. The US Open also does this a lot on Saturdays as we’ve seen recently with multiple guys flirting with the majors low round record on Saturday at Erin Hills and one other venue. As for wind changing, I think it happens quite often. Just this year in Florida there were 30 MPH gusts on Thursday and Friday at the Honda and I think it was close to that at Bay Hill as well early in the week. In the 2017 Masters it was blowing 35 MPH on Thursday and 25 on Friday before it settled down for a very calm weekend. We can control the weather thankfully. Sure we could mimic most weeks in the US and have it blowing 5 mph and have greens moderate and everyone can shoot -65 while barely paying attention. Or we can mix up some winds and have the course play differently a couple times, challenge players in different ways and in my opinion bring way more people in contention by making players grind it out once or twice a week. What I’m hearing more of from everyone is you want to play in a controlled environment. Consistent winds, consistent conditions, zero varying factors, pull out your calculator and hit it exactly where you want so you can get the exact result you want. Sounds quite boring and like a lot of PGA Tour tournaments I guess. I was completely tired of the weeks with 3 or 4 high winds rounds, it’s like I had 13 mph wind shot into my head for every shot of every round. Also to be clear, I didn’t plan on multiple very high wind rounds per week. Typically just one, and only on courses that could handle it, meaning they need to have plenty of space and preferably sloped greens to play around with. I did plan on multiple at Sand Hills. Plays much better with it. Justin, with you being a big part of the classic architecture movement and a big fan of width in courses, it’s a bit disappointing you don’t like very high winds.
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Post by theduke21 on Mar 30, 2020 16:04:21 GMT -5
And I have to ask, and hopefully everyone is honest.
Do you hate very high winds because they’re actually buggy and unfair, or do you hate them because they’re mentally taxing and take a ton of work to play well in them?
I was completely the latter as recently as last year. I’m pretty sure I even complained about very high winds after the tournament at Justin’s course last year. I was only mad because I didn’t feel like putting in the effort in very high winds and played poorly and got angry.
I’ve turned around on that completely. I think now very high is one of the only ways to challenge in the game by putting a premium on getting the ball on line and course management.
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