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Post by lions67 on Jul 6, 2020 23:26:02 GMT -5
Was trying to decide if I needed to moderate the F.A.U.C.I. post, then there was a "bozo president Chump" post, and then a fun story about the Titanic. LOL Ah hell, how do I even keep up? Haha Yeah buddy!!! I was the guy that posted the Chump line! 😄✋
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Post by xvshitanvx on Jul 7, 2020 1:18:12 GMT -5
Melbourne has been locked down in the face of a second wave for 6 weeks.
This is a really interesting one. We’ve had a progressive increase in cases and restrictions reintroduced over the last two weeks. The high point was today at 191 new cases.
On the one hand we locked down with this number of cases in the first wave and it worked. On the other hand, the early cases were substantially worse as we didn’t have rigorous testing in place. We currently have ~750 active cases and are extensively testing (26,000 tests/day). Only 30 patients are hospitalised and 7 in ICU. With these numbers it kind of looks like a storm in a teacup.
So while I understand the necessity to avoid this becoming worse, the impact on hospitals which was the primary argument in the first wave is not apparent. My feeling is the economic impact is not being sufficiently weighed against the health threat.
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Post by catcherman22 on Jul 7, 2020 1:26:01 GMT -5
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Post by Cecil Harvey on Jul 7, 2020 2:04:54 GMT -5
It's still a pandemic and infecting across the world.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jul 7, 2020 3:11:31 GMT -5
I don't really understand why it's a big deal that most deaths are for people with pre existing conditions.
Firstly, LOADS of people have pre existing conditions. Secondly, only dying from it isn't the danger. It's a highly infectious disease that's often asymptomatic. You can give it to somebody and kill them.
People seem to be AGAIN trying to talk as if "oh well, they would've died next month from their pre existing condition anyway." People live with diabetes for decades, people live with kidney and heart conditions for decades, 60-75yr olds can live for 5/10/20 more years.
Then there's the increasing evidence of long haul covid and that many people who had the mild form appear to be getting significant and lasting effects afterwards.
Contracting covid is, comprehensively, NOT something anyone should be blase about!
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Post by LKeet6 on Jul 7, 2020 7:32:27 GMT -5
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/americans-reportedly-find-loophole-violate-canadas-covid-19-border-closure"The frontier has remained closed since 21 March, but US citizens without coronavirus symptoms are still allowed to enter Canada in order to reach the US state of Alaska. Such travelers are required to use drive-thru windows for food and pay for gas at the pump, and must undergo quarantine if they use a hotel. But a string of reports suggests that some US citizens are crossing the border on the pretext of visiting Alaska – only to stay in Canada. One resident of Banff, Alberta, posted on Facebook that a Texas family had visited a restaurant, allegedly telling staff they had found a “loophole” in travel restrictions, allowing them to secretly vacation in the region. “[The family is] now wandering around Banff, no masks, no distancing, no 14-day quarantine. There was also another similar incident same loophole used for another group of visitors from Seattle,” said the post. “This is more than alarming!”
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Post by titaneddie on Jul 7, 2020 7:41:58 GMT -5
Thought I heard about this week's ago. Anything ever come of it?
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Post by LKeet6 on Jul 7, 2020 8:17:26 GMT -5
Thought I heard about this week's ago. Anything ever come of it? Yeah, the article is from about 3 weeks ago. I don't know what has happened since. Just found it interesting...
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Post by staypuft39 on Jul 7, 2020 8:32:30 GMT -5
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Post by titaneddie on Jul 7, 2020 8:47:51 GMT -5
Weird, no talk of vacationers in Manitoba lol.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 9:06:17 GMT -5
Leon, I know you and I are cool personally, so no hard feelings intended here at all, but can I ask you two questions just from observing this thread for a while now?
1) you seem to be upset by others who post about a less drastic view of the “numbers,” even including stuff about agendas, etc. But from my perspective, I could say it seems like you want this to be seen as an apocalyptic event, like your agenda is to push all of the ‘everybody will die’ viewpoints. What is your main talking point?
2) what is your solution in a perfect scenario? If this is truly as bad as you say and there’s no fear-mongering or agenda by anyone, what should we be doing?
**I think it’s important to add this fact for foundational perspective: I did not vote for Trump in 2016. The point of telling you this is not to be political, but simply to assuage any thought that I’m just being defensive of one side or the other here.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jul 7, 2020 9:25:53 GMT -5
Leon, I know you and I are cool personally, so no hard feelings intended here at all, but can I ask you two questions just from observing this thread for a while now? 1) you seem to be upset by others who post about a less drastic view of the “numbers,” even including stuff about agendas, etc. But from my perspective, I could say it seems like you want this to be seen as an apocalyptic event, like your agenda is to push all of the ‘everybody will die’ viewpoints. What is your main talking point? 2) what is your solution in a perfect scenario? If this is truly as bad as you say and there’s no fear-mongering or agenda by anyone, what should we be doing? **I think it’s important to add this fact for foundational perspective: I did not vote for Trump in 2016. The point of telling you this is not to be political, but simply to assuage any thought that I’m just being defensive of one side or the other here. I have NEVER minded being challenged and certainly the way you just did was absolutely fine! I've always had a habit of when I think something is being under (or over!) Played I will put across the other view. And of course my opinion is that is EXACTLY what the other "side" here is doing, no? I would disagree that I'm acting "upset" about it, more like angry and frustrated! I would also disagree that I'm putting across an "everybody will die" narrative. I think that's a gross exaggeration, inaccurate and a bit silly. I can see that people would take the view I'm pushing a "pessimistic" view, and rightly so, in my opinion; but that's VERY far from an "everybody will die" perspective. To reiterate, because people are just as consistently pushing a "no big deal" narrative, I feel compelled to push an "actually, it is a big deal" narrative. My "main talking point" is that, to use America and the UK as two very apt examples, the playing it down angle has been very harmful and cost many thousands of extra lives. If you would take a look at countries who HAVE treated this as seriously as me in this thread, I think you will see they have suffered considerably fewer deaths! So, you know, maybe I have a point?? I don't know if it's really fair to level at me "what should we do about it then?" This thread is just for opinionated discussion on what's going on. Not policy making. But I have been consistent throughout this thread in saying that by far the biggest mistake made was locking down too late, and that can't be changed now! I've also said though that now it needs to far more localised. So strict lockdowns of certain areas. I'll be honest, it does feel a bit like you're taking one side here, which I'm fine with btw! But why wouldn't you be asking the same questions to the other side?? They've been every bit as consistent in their narrative here?! It just seems you agree more with them. - why have you consistently played this down when we now have 170k excess deaths in 4 months. - you said this wouldn't be serious, but it very clearly is. - what's your actual plan here, because just opening everything up clearly isn't working. - why aren't you listening to what scientists and doctors are telling us? - why are you suggesting we handle this differently to countries who successfully dealt with covid? Are those all fair questions?
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Post by boffo on Jul 7, 2020 11:22:49 GMT -5
Weird, no talk of vacationers in Manitoba lol. Up until I went there almost 5 years ago Winnipeg was #1 on my list of dream holiday destinations. It was picked based upon the assumption that there wasn't a single other person anywhere on the planet that had Winnipeg as their dream holiday destination.
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Post by boffo on Jul 7, 2020 11:25:24 GMT -5
Oh, and also my wife really wants to go to Churchill some day.
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Post by catcherman22 on Jul 7, 2020 11:35:52 GMT -5
We've beat the excess deaths to literally death... half or so are covid, the other half are side effects from the covid closures.
This isn't serious... it's killing like .3% of the people it infects... and most of them are the elderly or have multiple underlying health issues.
I think the current plan is probably ideal.. targeted shutdowns of what is causing outbreaks. For example, we found in California that a large number of outbreaks were coming from indoor dining... so we eliminate indoor dining for a few weeks. It's about finding the right balance from allowing people to earn a living, while still protecting those who might be most vulnerable. Despite what you may want to believe... this won't go away with a complete shutdown. Thus closing everything down is not an option.
Scientists and Doctors cannot be wrong in a negative sense. If they under represent the danger of something, they risk a lawsuit if they were wrong. They will always error on the negative side. This is where the mathematics plays a factor.
Every country is in a different situation when it comes to this disease. To be successful, one must have a large scale testing and tracing system in place. It's hard to do that in a system this large. Like I said earlier, the fine line here is tracking where the outbreaks are happening and targeting those areas. Widescale closures don't work, and neither will opening everything willy nilly. It's all about finding that balance.
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