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Post by fadgewacker on Mar 5, 2020 2:27:35 GMT -5
so how can you comment on something you have no experience in doing? Possibly the most pointless argument in the world. You have no experience in playing the game the way it was designed. How can you comment on whether or not your swing is an advantage glitch if you have no experience playing on full difficulty? I’m probably wasting my time even explaining this if you’ve read the other thread, looked at the evidence and decided it’s a load of rubbish, but here goes. The reason this is an issue is that you can, of course, push them / pull them with your swing. Never been in question. But what happens with the push / pull swing is that you can vary the swing, but the result doesn’t vary anywhere near what a swing with the same variance that is in the cone does. Essentially, if I pull one, it goes 10 yards left of intended target. If you pull one it goes 5 yards left of intended target - 10/5 yards are not from a measured test, just to indicate to you, on a basic level, the problem. You can also fully loft without near the same penalty on dispersion, which is the most broken part, outside of the initial advantage just noted. Not trying to be a dick here, purely to in basic terms, explain the problem without too much detail cluttering the message. I have a feeling that you don’t understand the swing or the situation very well, and to come and essentially rubbish the testing done by others that do understand the swing very well and have done the testing to try and improve the competition on tour, is disingenuous at best. For those complaining that they have to re-learn the game - you don’t. All your calculations, shot shaping adjustments, creative vision etc... it’s all still there, so you don’t have to re-learn anything, but you do need to learn how to swing, the way the game intended you to. If that seems unfair, that you should be expected to play the game on the same difficulty setting as everyone else, well maybe you are playing your golf at the incorrect entry level. Embrace the challenge 👍
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Mar 5, 2020 3:49:15 GMT -5
Despite my objections to people in the other threads labelling this an unfair exploit when it's never been against any rule, I think this plan to police it is for the best. The site admins are really in a difficult position with the divided sentiment among many community members and have been pretty professional in their handling (especially considering they don't get paid). To be honest, an actual majority of swing lines may be too high of a threshold. I think it is good that the rule is, "don't intentionally do it" and the measurement criteria somewhat vague.
I will still try to play for a one way miss on fully lofted shots, but I think I can do this within the zone that would be in the blue for an unlofted shot, there is still some risk I accidentally end up left of straight because I will not be swinging way right. I plan to post some videos of this week's rounds for discussion once we're past the cut, I think my actual play will be a lot less controversial to people than my posts
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Mar 5, 2020 4:48:12 GMT -5
Despite my objections to people in the other threads labelling this an unfair exploit when it's never been against any rule It's labelled unfair because it gives those who utilise it effectively an advantage on the field. That's a totally reasonable description whether it was within the rules or not.
What it shouldn't (and hasn't) been labelled as, is cheating, because as you say there was no rule against it.
Now there is said rule I wouldn't be afraid to say anyone deliberately swinging this way or trying to trick the API is cheating
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Mar 5, 2020 5:05:21 GMT -5
Despite my objections to people in the other threads labelling this an unfair exploit when it's never been against any rule It's labelled unfair because it gives those who utilise it effectively an advantage on the field. That's a totally reasonable description whether it was within the rules or not.
What it shouldn't (and hasn't) been labelled as, is cheating, because as you say there was no rule against it.
Now there is said rule I wouldn't be afraid to say anyone deliberately swinging this way or trying to trick the API is cheating
To me it's not unfair if anyone can swing that way, seems to work the same regardless of your platform, controller, etc., sorry but you're not going to convince me on the semantics here. The word unfair means someone is getting some advantage unavailable to other people.
Anyway your desire to shift the discussion toward charged language like unfair and cheating just pisses off people who don't agree with you, it doesn't really convince anyone. I guess it is fun for people like me who enjoy reading all the drama on these boards each week, but it's not going to help move the community forward as many people have to adjust.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Mar 5, 2020 5:15:48 GMT -5
It's labelled unfair because it gives those who utilise it effectively an advantage on the field. That's a totally reasonable description whether it was within the rules or not.
What it shouldn't (and hasn't) been labelled as, is cheating, because as you say there was no rule against it.
Now there is said rule I wouldn't be afraid to say anyone deliberately swinging this way or trying to trick the API is cheating
Anyway your desire to shift the discussion toward charged language like unfair and cheating just pisses off people who don't agree with you
It generally only pisses off people who are bitter & twisted about being asked to play on a level playing field.
I can live with that
ps - how did I "shift" the discussion? You're the one who said you didn't think unfair was a valid description. We're talking about the same thing....
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Post by nobluffme on Mar 5, 2020 7:01:34 GMT -5
"Now you're going to have to learn to play with your left hand"
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Theopen
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
TGCT Name: Brian Ayers
Tour: Beer League
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Post by Theopen on Mar 5, 2020 7:33:26 GMT -5
In game under: Training -> Swing Basics -> Step 2
Every golf game that has adopted a "pull back/push forward" mechanic for swinging (rather than a 2 or 3-click swing) has always intended you to swing as straight as possible. The more off-center your swing is, the more your accuracy suffers as a result. This is representative of real golf (either having too shallow or wide of a backswing, or having the clubface turned inward/outward on impact).
In real life (and in some previous games I've played) it would cause you to shank/top the ball, or send it slicing/hooking wildly 90 degrees in either direction.
I'm betting that a lot of people freaking out about this policy change, simply have a "bad" swing. You can certainly adapt to a bad swing and still compete (somewhat). You can continue to be "bad" at this game and this policy won't affect you at all.
This is specifically going after those people that deliberately have a "horrible" swing, because at some point, they realized the game auto-corrects and they are taking advantage of it. I also firmly believe most of them know exactly what they're doing. If they have the intelligence to gauge wind/elevation/slope accurately, then they're smart enough to know that kind of swing should NOT be hitting their target every time. It's a game glitch, and they are exploiting it. Plain. And. Simple. I'm also sure that if those people took the time to learn how to swing "straight" (as the game intended), they'd probably still be competitive - because of said intelligence. The only difference, is that we'd finally be on an even playing field (no one able to fully loft their shots without consequence, etc.)
I use a mouse, so I don't have much sympathy for anyone complaining about relearning their swing. It took me a loooong time to condition my arm to move consistently in a straight line. That includes how I grip the mouse, angle my wrist, position my elbow, and use my shoulder to push/pull. Not to mention the other considerations like how I have to recline in my chair, the distance I sit from the computer, how clean my mouse pad is, etc. If any of those factors are off, even slightly, I won't hit straight.
So, take some time. Try holding your controller in a different position. Hold your arm straight, pivot at your wrist or elbow, and use your finger tips to control the stick rather than just using your thumb. Experiment, and I'm sure you can find a method that lets you swing "straight" (or at least "straighter").
I wholeheartedly applaud the admins for deciding to take action against this. I really wish they'd be a bit more aggressive on stopping the short-swingers as well, but I know the system has limitations. Given that I've seen people openly admit to using an exploit (in the forums, before the event was even over) yet still win just because they were able to pass the API ... there needs to be more done to stop it.
So, thank you to Doyley and Tim (and everyone that exhaustively tested and proved this exploit) for making the effort!
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Post by nobluffme on Mar 5, 2020 7:42:17 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes ^^^^^^^^^^^
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Post by fadgewacker on Mar 5, 2020 7:43:15 GMT -5
In game under: Training -> Swing Basics -> Step 2 Every golf game that has adopted a "pull back/push forward" mechanic for swinging (rather than a 2 or 3-click swing) has always intended you to swing as straight as possible. The more off-center your swing is, the more your accuracy suffers as a result. This is representative of real golf (either having too shallow or wide of a backswing, or having the clubface turned inward/outward on impact). In real life (and in some previous games I've played) it would cause you to shank/top the ball, or send it slicing/hooking wildly 90 degrees in either direction. I'm betting that a lot of people freaking out about this policy change, simply have a "bad" swing. You can certainly adapt to a bad swing and still compete (somewhat). You can continue to be "bad" at this game and this policy won't affect you at all. This is specifically going after those people that deliberately have a "horrible" swing, because at some point, they realized the game auto-corrects and they are taking advantage of it. I also firmly believe most of them know exactly what they're doing. If they have the intelligence to gauge wind/elevation/slope accurately, then they're smart enough to know that kind of swing should NOT be hitting their target every time. It's a game glitch, and they are exploiting it. Plain. And. Simple. I'm also sure that if those people took the time to learn how to swing "straight" (as the game intended), they'd probably still be competitive - because of said intelligence. The only difference, is that we'd finally be on an even playing field (no one able to fully loft their shots without consequence, etc.) I use a mouse, so I don't have much sympathy for anyone complaining about relearning their swing. It took me a loooong time to condition my arm to move consistently in a straight line. That includes how I grip the mouse, angle my wrist, position my elbow, and use my shoulder to push/pull. Not to mention the other considerations like how I have to recline in my chair, the distance I sit from the computer, how clean my mouse pad is, etc. If any of those factors are off, even slightly, I won't hit straight. So, take some time. Try holding your controller in a different position. Hold your arm straight, pivot at your wrist or elbow, and use your finger tips to control the stick rather than just using your thumb. Experiment, and I'm sure you can find a method that lets you swing "straight" (or at least "straighter"). I wholeheartedly applaud the admins for deciding to take action against this. I really wish they'd be a bit more aggressive on stopping the short-swingers as well, but I know the system has limitations. Given that I've seen people openly admit to using an exploit (in the forums, before the event was even over) yet still win just because they were able to pass the API ... there needs to be more done to stop it. So, thank you to Doyley and Tim (and everyone that exhaustively tested and proved this exploit) for making the effort! Have a beer 🍻
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 5, 2020 7:48:42 GMT -5
Hi. My swing never ends in the blue cone. It always goes slightly right of it. I can’t help it, and I have learned to adjust my aim to account for it. If you are going to kick people for that, I might as well quit the tour. It’s not like I win every week (or ever) because of it. If you guys are going to be swing Nazis, the tour isn’t really worth having to completely relearn the game. Sorry, but that’s just how I feel. If I even get kicked once for this, I’ll quit and not come back. Hi. You are taking advantage of an exploit (even if unknowingly doing so). If you keep doing that, then you are deliberately taking advantage of an exploit. If you decide to quit because that's not allowed, I will try and emotionally support the admins as much as I can, but no promises they'll get over it. 10/10
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Post by unclevirt on Mar 5, 2020 8:22:24 GMT -5
I will still try to play for a one way miss on fully lofted shots, but I think I can do this within the zone that would be in the blue for an unlofted shot, there is still some risk I accidentally end up left of straight because I will not be swinging way right. Ditto.
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Post by Doyley on Mar 5, 2020 8:26:53 GMT -5
Just got word from Tim that he won't be able to get to this before the next event starts so we'll be status quo at least 1 more week.
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Post by fadgewacker on Mar 5, 2020 8:48:58 GMT -5
Just got word from Tim that he won't be able to get to this before the next event starts so we'll be status quo at least 1 more week. Dislike.... But it is what it is. No problems here Gives the guys having issues a bit more time to get in line / tweak to comply.
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Mar 5, 2020 8:56:12 GMT -5
In game under: Training -> Swing Basics -> Step 2 Every golf game that has adopted a "pull back/push forward" mechanic for swinging (rather than a 2 or 3-click swing) has always intended you to swing as straight as possible. The more off-center your swing is, the more your accuracy suffers as a result. This is representative of real golf (either having too shallow or wide of a backswing, or having the clubface turned inward/outward on impact).
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Mar 5, 2020 9:03:51 GMT -5
Problem is people are doing this in the middle of the fairway and using the exploit. Big difference!
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