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Post by lessthanbread on Feb 25, 2020 13:59:03 GMT -5
Great discussion points. I like the idea of a running designer leaderboard of sorts but I think publishes outside contests should be taken into account as well in some way, just maybe with lower points gained than contest courses. I really like the idea of having a judging requirement if you enter a certain amount of contests. The only thing I really don't like is the 2-month design window for contests as others above have said, that would just put console designers and people with less free time to design at a huge disadvantage and I know for me I just wouldn't enter any contests if that was the case because I, as well as others, just can't put out a proper course in 2 months. I'm all for having less contests with longer design windows to level the playing field. I think with longer design windows there should be shorter publishing windows otherwise great courses made outside these contests will get buried if the whole year is filled with contest courses being published at random times. Instead of having a month long publish window, why not extend the "design" window and make it so the courses can only be published within a week or so of the contest deadline. That would make it so all the contest courses would be published within a sort time of each other and open the forums to others creating good courses outside the contests. That's not a bad idea. It would also mean the contest courses should get similar amount of plays as opposed to one's published early getting lots of plays and those published late not getting as much. Of course better known designers would all get lots of plays regardless. As for courses that are not part of contest getting points it is hard to implement. How would you award points for those courses? Also keep in mind tennis rankings and seedings don't take into account friendly and charity matches as those are not eligible. It would would also mean that someone could sit there designing courses and not enter a contest and still appear on the leaderboard, not exactly fair for those people who slog it out to make a contest course and achieve a low ranking simply because of better competitors. Maybe if there was a seperate column for official "seedings" points which is all the points accumulated from contests and go towards seedings for competitions and then another for non contest courses. But again how will points be awarded and by whom. I think it could work if outside contest publishes are just worth lower points than contest courses, just to make it so they're not worthless in the rankings and to keep designers publishing outside of contests. Here's just a rough outline: Pick of the design contests to be the most important one like say the World Cup: World Cup Design Contest: Win = 100 points Runner-up = 50 points 3rd place = 30 points All other courses that made the cut to the bracket round = 20 points Courses cut in group stage = 10 points CC Design Contest and Major Design Contest: Winner = 50 points Runner-up = 30 points 3rd place = 20 points Top 10% of all remaining courses = 10 points + 2 points if scheduled on tour All other courses = 6 points + 2 points if scheduled on tour Rookie Design Contest Winner = 10 points Runner-up = 5 points 3rd place = 3 points All other courses = 0 points (sorry rookies, earn your stripes). These courses will be eligible to earn the non-contest points though (see below) Non-contest publishes (designers must submit courses to TGC Tours to receive points) Course gets scheduled on tour = 2 points Course is rated "Tour-Worthy" and not scheduled on tour = 1 point Course is "Accepted" and not scheduled on tour = 0 points Course is "Not Accepted" = -1 point Just something really rough that puts emphasis on contest courses but gives some points to outside contest publishes. |
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Post by Davidius74 on Feb 25, 2020 21:55:01 GMT -5
Interesting concept and like the thoughts. I was toying with rookie being 20, 10, 6 and those in top 10 getting 3, bit I also had 1 point just for the rest as a participation award. Having them as non-contest and then subject to whether they are tour worthy or not is good too.
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Post by ErixonStone on Feb 29, 2020 19:46:22 GMT -5
I am just going to throw out these bits of info about the Rookie Design Challenge for 2020:
Anyone who has participated in any previous contest, or is currently participating in an ongoing contest will not be eligible for the Rookie Contest.
The design window will be longer than it was in 2019. Last year, the design window was 2 months 15 days.
I am not concerned about overlapping participation because no one participating in any other contest will be eligible to enter.
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Post by Davidius74 on Feb 29, 2020 22:52:39 GMT -5
Can we retro apply this rule to last year so that Ben didn't win as he was in last year's CC contest before competing in Rookie
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Post by Oscar C on Feb 29, 2020 23:01:25 GMT -5
I suggested only genuine rookies and was shot down for it. Interesting development.
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Post by b101 on Mar 1, 2020 16:16:11 GMT -5
Have we thought about how limited that will make the Rookie field? Given that the CC currently takes roughly 30 newer designers out of the running... Even last year, there were only 17. The 'no prior contests' would have limited that field to just 13. Longer design window makes a lot of sense.
By the way, this is not me being anti that rule coming in and I feel I did enough explaining of how I comfortably fit the criteria to go over that again. But I do think you need to look at the combination of this with the CC and consider whether there will actually be a contest.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Mar 1, 2020 16:52:16 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing, Ben. Personally I think having a few designers with some experience in the contest was great. Ben and Jeff come to mind. Being able to develop a relationship with someone that has more experience than you as a designer was the best thing I got out of that competition. By limiting it to no contest experience you're also ruling out some people that are really into design, that would have qualified last year but wouldn't this year. DrnkNdKnwThngs comes to mind. If you do limit it to designers with no contest experience I think you might get 6 people. In which case sign me up to judge. |
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Post by DrnkNdKnwThngs on Mar 1, 2020 20:37:32 GMT -5
I bought this game while the Rookie comp from last year was finishing up and being judged...I didn't start designing until November...I guess I'm still technically a "Rookie" since I've only published one course. Being in the CC comp now (which is an open comp, btw) shouldn't really restrict anyone from being in the Rookie comp, imho...I actually think that the admission into the Rookie comp should be left up to the comp coordinator, and not on anything like having been in a previous comp (especially CC). If you did want to limit it, then maybe having competed in the WCoD, Major, or even Dream Team might be a reason...idk...
~Drnk
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Post by Davidius74 on Mar 1, 2020 23:11:29 GMT -5
Have we thought about how limited that will make the Rookie field? Given that the CC currently takes roughly 30 newer designers out of the running... Even last year, there were only 17. The 'no prior contests' would have limited that field to just 13. Longer design window makes a lot of sense. By the way, this is not me being anti that rule coming in and I feel I did enough explaining of how I comfortably fit the criteria to go over that again. But I do think you need to look at the combination of this with the CC and consider whether there will actually be a contest. I agree. If the rules are kept the same as last year it will bump up the field a little. There is little to no activity on the forum threads from anyone that is a complete rookie and those that have only started designing since the comp finished last year have entered CC this year just so they could take part in a competition. Of we stop those entering then I think 6 entrants in rookie this year is being very optimistic. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Mar 14, 2020 16:00:24 GMT -5
Last year, signups filled out the field of 20 within hours, and I turned people away who wanted a shot. If it turns out that the field is smaller, I think I am OK with that.
With 4 other official contests, there is always one running. The Dream Team contest is also new-designer-friendly. As a result, I have less concern about where the intermediate designers might feel comfortable competing. With the contest landscape being as robust as it is, I really want a contest home for those designers just getting started.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2020 20:58:56 GMT -5
It’s my rookie year of designing for these competitions. I was really looking forward to this contest. Because of this rule I will be ineligible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2020 10:03:38 GMT -5
How does someone go about becoming or qualifying to be a judge of the various contests? I'm interested for sure. 2 - Improving Judging
Reeb has mentioned he is willing to do a judging tutorial video showing what sort of things newer judges should be looking for. Not only badly executed things but the good stuff too. I think this is a good idea as different people can read what is expected in the Rubric (drink!) and interpret it differently. Certain things like Aesthetics and Enjoyability will of course remain subjective as we are all different and what is visually appealing to some people is unappealing to others. Of course even if you don't like certain things, you can mark done slightly in the aesthetics side but also judge based on how well it was executed in the technical section.
3 - Mentorship
This can be the next next on from point 2. The way I see this is that the more experienced deisgners/judges take a newer judge or 2 under their wing. They can choose a course to be played and judged. Both parties judge it according to the standard rubric (drink!) and then the newer judge reports back how he would of judged ( all via PM) the mentor then can look at that and point out he thought, congratulating on picking up certain things while also saying did you notice how this was done. This will at least help with the Playability, Technical and Routing sections in the Rubric (drink!) and can then make judging more consistent and less subjective in categories that shouldn't be Even with Aesthetics and Immersion it could be a case of those rocks or trees etc. look out of place and don't fit the scenery around it. Or the rocks could be too big and not sunken and look very unnatural. Even plants could look unnatural and this is where the mentor could help spot things in a subjective category.
4 - Less Designing and More Judging
What I mean by this is that there should be a limit as to how many contests you can enter before you have to judge one. This will ensure everyone judges from time to time and can increases the pool of judges for certain contests. Let's say the limit is 3, meaning for you can only enter 3 contests and cannot enter any more until you have judged a contest. Once you have judged then this will reset. Choosing to sit out a contest one way or the other will not affect that limit or reset it as it is by choice but it also will not add to it. The only exception to this would be Dream Team as the teams are picked by the respective captains and they will won't the best team possible. So say player A has entered CC 19, Rookie 19 and WCOD 20, he would not be able to enter another contest until he has judged, however if he has done really well and one of the DT captains want him on their team to try and help them to win, this player should not be forced to sit out. They would of course not be able to enter CC 20 though or other contests until they judge one.
I feel this will ensure the rotation of judges and have contests with experienced judges and also newer ones to give their unique perspective too.
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Jun 21, 2020 14:37:01 GMT -5
How does someone go about becoming or qualifying to be a judge of the various contests? I'm interested for sure. 2 - Improving Judging
Reeb has mentioned he is willing to do a judging tutorial video showing what sort of things newer judges should be looking for. Not only badly executed things but the good stuff too. I think this is a good idea as different people can read what is expected in the Rubric (drink!) and interpret it differently. Certain things like Aesthetics and Enjoyability will of course remain subjective as we are all different and what is visually appealing to some people is unappealing to others. Of course even if you don't like certain things, you can mark done slightly in the aesthetics side but also judge based on how well it was executed in the technical section.
3 - Mentorship
This can be the next next on from point 2. The way I see this is that the more experienced deisgners/judges take a newer judge or 2 under their wing. They can choose a course to be played and judged. Both parties judge it according to the standard rubric (drink!) and then the newer judge reports back how he would of judged ( all via PM) the mentor then can look at that and point out he thought, congratulating on picking up certain things while also saying did you notice how this was done. This will at least help with the Playability, Technical and Routing sections in the Rubric (drink!) and can then make judging more consistent and less subjective in categories that shouldn't be Even with Aesthetics and Immersion it could be a case of those rocks or trees etc. look out of place and don't fit the scenery around it. Or the rocks could be too big and not sunken and look very unnatural. Even plants could look unnatural and this is where the mentor could help spot things in a subjective category.
4 - Less Designing and More Judging
What I mean by this is that there should be a limit as to how many contests you can enter before you have to judge one. This will ensure everyone judges from time to time and can increases the pool of judges for certain contests. Let's say the limit is 3, meaning for you can only enter 3 contests and cannot enter any more until you have judged a contest. Once you have judged then this will reset. Choosing to sit out a contest one way or the other will not affect that limit or reset it as it is by choice but it also will not add to it. The only exception to this would be Dream Team as the teams are picked by the respective captains and they will won't the best team possible. So say player A has entered CC 19, Rookie 19 and WCOD 20, he would not be able to enter another contest until he has judged, however if he has done really well and one of the DT captains want him on their team to try and help them to win, this player should not be forced to sit out. They would of course not be able to enter CC 20 though or other contests until they judge one.
I feel this will ensure the rotation of judges and have contests with experienced judges and also newer ones to give their unique perspective too.
I’ll second this. Also interested in becoming more involved and any info would be appreciated. |
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Post by Davidius74 on Jun 21, 2020 19:47:58 GMT -5
Keep an eye on when contests are announced. Usually they will be announced by the judging coordinator but if you look at the design contests page of upcoming contests you can see who the judging coordinator is. Message them to register your interest.
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