|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 23, 2020 1:04:51 GMT -5
Hi All
In light of recent events I have been thinking about this all week and finally have time to get on the computer and type all this up. Bear in mind this is quite long and some may agree with some points or completely disagree but I hope it opens up discussion on improving so we can all move forward. Some of these points are taken from what others have said but expanded upon with my own thoughts.
1 - World Cup of Design
Now this is is where this thread stems from. With so many of the top designers being in the competition it left a limited number of people to judge. Nothing against the judges as I am a first time judge and we have done our best, but there were quite a lot of newer judges/designers and some who were in last years rookie contest. Nothing bad as we can give a different perspective to judging while still staying with the Rubric (drink!) There is nothing wrong with the format as it is based on the FIFA World Cup and there can be some upsets, however what I propose for the WCoD though moving forward is maybe like the FIFA World Cup it should happen every 4 seasons with different contests taking it's place in the intervening years.
2 - Improving Judging
Reeb has mentioned he is willing to do a judging tutorial video showing what sort of things newer judges should be looking for. Not only badly executed things but the good stuff too. I think this is a good idea as different people can read what is expected in the Rubric (drink!) and interpret it differently. Certain things like Aesthetics and Enjoyability will of course remain subjective as we are all different and what is visually appealing to some people is unappealing to others. Of course even if you don't like certain things, you can mark done slightly in the aesthetics side but also judge based on how well it was executed in the technical section.
3 - Mentorship
This can be the next next on from point 2. The way I see this is that the more experienced deisgners/judges take a newer judge or 2 under their wing. They can choose a course to be played and judged. Both parties judge it according to the standard rubric (drink!) and then the newer judge reports back how he would of judged ( all via PM) the mentor then can look at that and point out he thought, congratulating on picking up certain things while also saying did you notice how this was done. This will at least help with the Playability, Technical and Routing sections in the Rubric (drink!) and can then make judging more consistent and less subjective in categories that shouldn't be Even with Aesthetics and Immersion it could be a case of those rocks or trees etc. look out of place and don't fit the scenery around it. Or the rocks could be too big and not sunken and look very unnatural. Even plants could look unnatural and this is where the mentor could help spot things in a subjective category.
4 - Less Designing and More Judging
What I mean by this is that there should be a limit as to how many contests you can enter before you have to judge one. This will ensure everyone judges from time to time and can increases the pool of judges for certain contests. Let's say the limit is 3, meaning for you can only enter 3 contests and cannot enter any more until you have judged a contest. Once you have judged then this will reset. Choosing to sit out a contest one way or the other will not affect that limit or reset it as it is by choice but it also will not add to it. The only exception to this would be Dream Team as the teams are picked by the respective captains and they will won't the best team possible. So say player A has entered CC 19, Rookie 19 and WCOD 20, he would not be able to enter another contest until he has judged, however if he has done really well and one of the DT captains want him on their team to try and help them to win, this player should not be forced to sit out. They would of course not be able to enter CC 20 though or other contests until they judge one.
I feel this will ensure the rotation of judges and have contests with experienced judges and also newer ones to give their unique perspective too.
5 - Designer Rankings
This is something that may take some fiddling to get right but designers should get certain points based on where they finish in a contest. The bigger the contest the higher the point value for finishing higher. Points are tallied up to give a total over say a 2 year period. The designers are then ranked based on the total points they have gotten over that 2 year period and adjusted on a month by month basis. When those designers then enter contests they can then be seeded based on other entrants in contest and their overall ranking.
6 - Contests per Year
Currently their are 5 official contests each year, some running for 2 months, others for 3 with a signup generally a month before. This means some contests overlap and if you are in more than one you have to split your time. Now with this happening ( CC is a total of 5 months by the time you signup early and then go to end of publish window) why don't we make each contest have a 2 month running time with the one month signup. We could then have 6 contests per year helping to give more points to the rankings listed in point 5 and allow someone to enter more contests after having to sit out to judge in point 4.
7 - More Variations to Contests
I have been thinking about a concept for a contest and think it would be fun. Say we allow whoever to sign up but cap it at multiples of 11 ( 1 or 2 short would be fine) and then put even onto the wheel. Once signup is complete the wheel is spun to determine your draw position. Once everyone has been drawn then a second wheel is spun. This will list all the themes a certain number of times (e.g. 42 people are signed up then each theme listed 4 times) The theme that is then spun up goes to designer and position 1 and removed from wheel, wheel spun again and so forth until every designer has a theme. Hopefully at the end there are 2 themes left and not the same theme twice.
Contestants are then restricted by the theme they have chosen. Some may enjoy the them and others not. Now we know some themes are limited in planting options and won't look as glamorous aesthetically but that all comes down to the individual designer. Having lots of greens and nothing else by a good designer can still look better that someone who has autumn or harvest and an abundance of colour but misplaces everything.
In the first round of judging everyone competes and is judged only against those with the same theme. The winner moving on to the final. The judges then play all the 11 remaining courses to determine the winner. As mentioned before some themes are more limited aesthetically so judging should be based not just on what is there but how well it was done. It will also mean other categories in the Rubric (drink!) take more of an importance and judging can become less subjective.
These are just my thoughts and I know some people will agree to some or all ot them and others will think I completely missed the mark. This is just how I can see things possibly moving forward to change things up and try and get some more consistency.
Thanks for taking the time to read  |
|
|
|
Post by OldSouled on Feb 23, 2020 1:16:19 GMT -5
Great thoughts. The wheel idea sounds fun. I’m looking forward to joining the next contest so I find this all very interesting.
|
|
|
|
Post by Oscar C on Feb 23, 2020 4:35:16 GMT -5
Lots of ideas and written in a good way that I think would get everyone thinking.
Personally the only objection I have is 2 month contests. I myself couldn’t create a contest worthy course in 8 weeks so I wouldn’t enter at all. Others can do 3 in this time I’m sure but the longer the better for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 23, 2020 5:47:47 GMT -5
Ideally you would have 3 months. 2 months for the contest and publishing any time within that 2 months and another month for the registration. Basically the 2 month contests now give 3 months to design. The major contests can still go on but have a 2 month registration so run over 4 months. It is then up to designers to decide which contests they feel they would do better at or if they can manage it then enter multiple overlapping contest's.
|
|
|
|
Post by sandsaver01 on Feb 23, 2020 8:29:48 GMT -5
Ideally you would have 3 months. 2 months for the contest and publishing any time within that 2 months and another month for the registration. Basically the 2 month contests now give 3 months to design. The major contests can still go on but have a 2 month registration so run over 4 months. It is then up to designers to decide which contests they feel they would do better at or if they can manage it then enter multiple overlapping contest's. AFIK (or can remember), one was only allowed to submit courses to the contest that had been started on or after the official starting date, not the registration date. I may be wrong here but I am pretty sure the Rookie contest was that way. |
|
reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742 
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
|
Post by reebdoog on Feb 23, 2020 8:38:37 GMT -5
nice work. There is a lot of this discussion already taking place and your ideas are not novel that's for sure...but well articulated and thought out. Keep em coming! Personally, I'm 100% for fewer official contests OR making the fields smaller as a first step. I also firmly believe that if you enter two contests the next contest that comes through you are automatically a judge (or something like that). Basically if you wanna play you need to be on both sides of the process. There's a lot more but goo ideas buddy. |
|
|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 23, 2020 8:40:20 GMT -5
With all contests once you have registered for the contest you can can begin working on it. Official start date for current CC contest isn't for a couple of months but registration opened early so now every has 5 months to do the course.
|
|
|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 23, 2020 8:44:39 GMT -5
nice work. There is a lot of this discussion already taking place and your ideas are not novel that's for sure...but well articulated and thought out. Keep em coming! Personally, I'm 100% for fewer official contests OR making the fields smaller as a first step. I also firmly believe that if you enter two contests the next contest that comes through you are automatically a judge (or something like that). Basically if you wanna play you need to be on both sides of the process. There's a lot more but goo ideas buddy. Having 6 instead of 5 was more for the rankings and seeding side of things. It should also help to keep fields smaller as then not everyone would be able to compete or they would not be able to devote the time to each contest anyway and produce best possible course. As for the judging 2 is valid as most top designers generally wouldn't enter too many each year anyway and wouldn't be eligible for rookie but I thought was a fairer number. I personally would be happy to see you make the vid reeb. Thought I have done a good job my first time up but can always learn more to make me a better judge for the future. |
|
|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 23, 2020 8:46:03 GMT -5
Also I know there is lots of discussion going on and thought it best to just be in one place instead of individual contest threads or private discussions.
|
|
|
|
Post by 15eicheltower9 on Feb 23, 2020 8:47:11 GMT -5
I am all for wheels. And healthy, productive conversations. Keep the ideas flowing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Oscar C on Feb 24, 2020 2:13:04 GMT -5
With all contests once you have registered for the contest you can can begin working on it. Official start date for current CC contest isn't for a couple of months but registration opened early so now every has 5 months to do the course. actually Dave they aren’t all like that. I’m pretty sure the rookie contest had a definitive start and finish date. |
|
|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 24, 2020 3:18:59 GMT -5
Last year's rookie had 3 months to design as I was in it. Or was is 2 and half. I know final day for submissions was 15th Oct but can't remember if registration was mid July or August 1st. I know we could start designing once we were accepted in
|
|
|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 24, 2020 3:21:31 GMT -5
Regardless of that though was just an idea to maybe have them overlap slightly going forward
|
|
|
|
Post by lessthanbread on Feb 25, 2020 12:12:21 GMT -5
Great discussion points. I like the idea of a running designer leaderboard of sorts but I think publishes outside contests should be taken into account as well in some way, just maybe with lower points gained than contest courses. I really like the idea of having a judging requirement if you enter a certain amount of contests. The only thing I really don't like is the 2-month design window for contests as others above have said, that would just put console designers and people with less free time to design at a huge disadvantage and I know for me I just wouldn't enter any contests if that was the case because I, as well as others, just can't put out a proper course in 2 months. I'm all for having less contests with longer design windows to level the playing field. I think with longer design windows there should be shorter publishing windows otherwise great courses made outside these contests will get buried if the whole year is filled with contest courses being published at random times. Instead of having a month long publish window, why not extend the "design" window and make it so the courses can only be published within a week or so of the contest deadline. That would make it so all the contest courses would be published within a sort time of each other and open the forums to others creating good courses outside the contests.
|
|
|
|
Post by Davidius74 on Feb 25, 2020 12:57:06 GMT -5
Great discussion points. I like the idea of a running designer leaderboard of sorts but I think publishes outside contests should be taken into account as well in some way, just maybe with lower points gained than contest courses. I really like the idea of having a judging requirement if you enter a certain amount of contests. The only thing I really don't like is the 2-month design window for contests as others above have said, that would just put console designers and people with less free time to design at a huge disadvantage and I know for me I just wouldn't enter any contests if that was the case because I, as well as others, just can't put out a proper course in 2 months. I'm all for having less contests with longer design windows to level the playing field. I think with longer design windows there should be shorter publishing windows otherwise great courses made outside these contests will get buried if the whole year is filled with contest courses being published at random times. Instead of having a month long publish window, why not extend the "design" window and make it so the courses can only be published within a week or so of the contest deadline. That would make it so all the contest courses would be published within a sort time of each other and open the forums to others creating good courses outside the contests. That's not a bad idea. It would also mean the contest courses should get similar amount of plays as opposed to one's published early getting lots of plays and those published late not getting as much. Of course better known designers would all get lots of plays regardless. As for courses that are not part of contest getting points it is hard to implement. How would you award points for those courses? Also keep in mind tennis rankings and seedings don't take into account friendly and charity matches as those are not eligible. It would would also mean that someone could sit there designing courses and not enter a contest and still appear on the leaderboard, not exactly fair for those people who slog it out to make a contest course and achieve a low ranking simply because of better competitors. Maybe if there was a seperate column for official "seedings" points which is all the points accumulated from contests and go towards seedings for competitions and then another for non contest courses. But again how will points be awarded and by whom. |
|
